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The Offseason Thread Part IX: Howson often gives nuts to toothless people

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06-24-2012, 08:01 PM
  #951
Lundsanity30
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
In terms of skill probably not, unfortunately for anyone dealing with Howson he's ignoring Nash's bad contract. He needs to be treated like a rental player, Hossa is a good example go look at what he fetched at the deadline.

CBJ fans and Howson act as if Nash's contract is a plus when it clearly isn't.
And I agree, but why not offer it for Ryan?

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06-24-2012, 08:02 PM
  #952
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not saying we have to do something NOW but I always hear nope the price is too high and about half of the roster is unavailable according to Sather so how is time going to change that? Unless u think howson will end up taking peanuts for Nash
Sather came here in 2000, stopped trying to buy a cup in 2004. Guess he takes at least 4 years to learn.

In all seriousness he's trying to get that guy. Howson's a nut. You can't reason with the insane. It's not even Nash for Kreider. He's the starting point. You can't make that deal, dude.

Anaheim doesn't want to deal Ryan. They want to get a ransom. Replace Pronger or find 2 or 3 for the 2nd line, cheaply.

But Sather is trying. He's trying to make a deal but it's irrational demands. Something will happen. The organization has their needs identified, they have targets. We're a destination again, pieces will fall into place.

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06-24-2012, 08:03 PM
  #953
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And I agree, but why not offer it for Ryan?
I don't think Anaheim does it, they want a big return too. A level prospect and a 2nd line center plus probably.

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06-24-2012, 08:05 PM
  #954
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As I said before being a Yankee fan and hearing the price is too high this whole list of people are untouchable annoyed me, now I'm hearing it with the Rangers

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06-24-2012, 08:08 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I don't think Anaheim does it, they want a big return too. A level prospect and a 2nd line center plus probably.
Both teams want at least one top potential player, a roster player and picks from what I hear. Why shouldn't they? Both are great talents but I agree, howson is a lunatic. Not sure Murray is that insane though

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06-24-2012, 08:09 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Both teams want at least one top potential player, a roster player and picks from what I hear. Why shouldn't they? Both are great talents but I agree, howson is a lunatic. Not sure Murray is that insane though
He's not insane but he wants more than Dubi, Kreider and a pick.

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06-24-2012, 08:09 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I'm for this!, suter not coming though, but I would love to get him and move staal for Ryan
Anaheim, Carolina, Rangers 3-way?

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06-24-2012, 08:10 PM
  #958
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And is Hagelin really unavailable? I like the guy but isn't kreider a better version of him basically?

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06-24-2012, 08:11 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Anaheim, Carolina, Rangers 3-way?
Do we get skinner? If staal goes to Nc, that's who I want

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06-24-2012, 08:12 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
He's not insane but he wants more than Dubi, Kreider and a pick.
Howson or Murray? Depending on the offers, I could absolutely see that working for Ryan

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06-24-2012, 08:13 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I'm for this!, suter not coming though, but I would love to get him and move staal for Ryan
Isn't Suter a LD? Our first pair is set. So it's McD or Suter on the 2nd pair, MDZ still on the 3rd, Girardi still the only RD. Oh, and we get to pay an extra $2-3m for that arrangement.

My man, you sound like you just really, really want some new names and excitement.

Staal might be pushing McD back down and retaking his place along side Girardi. That's 2 top notch LDs for the price of one Suter. And Suter's no offensive dynamo, it's not like he solves any problems our defense has. Just a slight upgrade at a free agent price. It would be nice to add Ryan, but I'm not confident Anaheim would make a straight swap, even though Marc should bring back Ryan +.

And once again, the offseason mission is to increase defensive depth, not stand pat or subtract.

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06-24-2012, 08:15 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Parise grew up a Rangers fan, I think discounting them is pretty foolish bc he told the JERSEY media no immediately after losing in the SCF
Parise was the exact opposite of a Rangers fan. I think I read a long time ago that him and his father hate the Rangers. His father was an Islander, there's no way his son would be a Rangers fan.

and if some don't think that his father being an Islander had nothing to do with the Rangers not drafting him and has nothing to do with him not wanting to play for the Rangers, well then I don't know what to tell you. Sure he'll go where the money is, but I'm sure he'd take a few hundred K less to go play somewhere other than a franchise that he doesn't like.

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06-24-2012, 08:16 PM
  #963
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And is Hagelin really unavailable? I like the guy but isn't kreider a better version of him basically?
I think Hagelin will be a perfect 3rd line LW, we would love him for yrs to come so I hope he stays...........Kreider will be just as fast but a goal scorer.........I think Hagelin will be better defensively

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06-24-2012, 08:16 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Howson or Murray? Depending on the offers, I could absolutely see that working for Ryan
Murray and no it doesn't work. Kreider hasn't played a full season and Dubinsky is a 3rd liner. He wants established 2nd liners and preferably a center. Stepan plus and he'll answer the phone.

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06-24-2012, 08:20 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Isn't Suter a LD? Our first pair is set. So it's McD or Suter on the 2nd pair, MDZ still on the 3rd, Girardi still the only RD. Oh, and we get to pay an extra $2-3m for that arrangement.

My man, you sound like you just really, really want some new names and excitement.

Staal might be pushing McD back down and retaking his place along side Girardi. That's 2 top notch LDs for the price of one Suter. And Suter's no offensive dynamo, it's not like he solves any problems our defense has. Just a slight upgrade at a free agent price. It would be nice to add Ryan, but I'm not confident Anaheim would make a straight swap, even though Marc should bring back Ryan +.

And once again, the offseason mission is to increase defensive depth, not stand pat or subtract.
do u know how good our d would be with suter and how much better our offense would b with Ryan? Not sure anyone would beat a staal package. And only suter if we are to trade staal for Ryan. That's not just wanting new names. That's making this team a whole lot better lol

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06-24-2012, 08:20 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
So Kreider, Dubi, a pick and a prospect for Nash? That's seems acceptable to you? Your vastly overrating Nash.

You realize you're getting a 35 goal scorer with a terrible contract and not Wayne Gretzky, right?

No more than 3 assets for Nash. Here's my list

Dubi
1st round pick
Thomas
Mcllrath
Erixon
Anisimov

Tell Howson he can take any 3 he wants from that list for Nash. That's what Nash is worth, 3 from that list an no more.
Agreed. We should use the Mike Richards deal as the barometer. This is the best example.

to Kings:
Mike Richards (and AHL prospect) (age 25)
-5.750 cap hit
- last year with flyers - 66 points
- +/- was +11

To Flyers:
Wayne Simmonds (age 23)
- 1.75 cap hit
- Last year with kings - 30 points
- -1

Brayden Schenn (age 19) A Top Prospect (5th Overall 2009 draft)
- Just finished juniors/a cup of tea with Kings/Manchester

2nd Round Pick 2012 Draft. #60

---

Rick Nash (age 28)
- 7.8 Cap Hit
- 59 points
- -19

If you look at him purely compared to Richards, he is less valuable in that he's 3 years older at the time of the trade, has not scored over more than 67 points since he was 24 years old and he's a cap hit of 2.1 million more than Richards per season.

Nash SHOULD NOT net as much in a trade as Richards. Thus THIS should be ENOUGH.

- one of Dubinsky/Anisimov
- one of Miller/Erixon
- 1st or 2nd round draft pick in 2013

If it's not, then screw Howson. There's already a precedent for a better, younger player. And for those of you clammoring to have the balls the Kings, you really need to look at the actual numbers (both scoring and $)

Finally, in digging deeper, Rick Nash has only scored 6 power play goals in the last two seasons... he's not an offensive juggernaut as everyone on here is suggesting. As far as scoring, he's not even Mike Gartner. (and we only lost Ulf Dahlen for him).

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06-24-2012, 08:25 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by gravey9 View Post
Agreed. We should use the Mike Richards deal as the barometer. This is the best example.

to Kings:
Mike Richards (and AHL prospect) (age 25)
-5.750 cap hit
- last year with flyers - 66 points
- +/- was +11

To Flyers:
Wayne Simmonds (age 23)
- 1.75 cap hit
- Last year with kings - 30 points
- -1

Brayden Schenn (age 19) A Top Prospect (5th Overall 2009 draft)
- Just finished juniors/a cup of tea with Kings/Manchester

2nd Round Pick 2012 Draft. #60

---

Rick Nash (age 28)
- 7.8 Cap Hit
- 59 points
- -19

If you look at him purely compared to Richards, he is less valuable in that he's 3 years older at the time of the trade, has not scored over more than 67 points since he was 24 years old and he's a cap hit of 2.1 million more than Richards per season.

Nash SHOULD NOT net as much in a trade as Richards. Thus THIS should be ENOUGH.

- one of Dubinsky/Anisimov
- one of Miller/Erixon
- 1st or 2nd round draft pick in 2013

If it's not, then screw Howson. There's already a precedent for a better, younger player. And for those of you clammoring to have the balls the Kings, you really need to look at the actual numbers (both scoring and $)

Finally, in digging deeper, Rick Nash has only scored 6 power play goals in the last two seasons... he's not an offensive juggernaut as everyone on here is suggesting. As far as scoring, he's not even Mike Gartner. (and we only lost Ulf Dahlen for him).
Dude Nash is better than Richards. Put Nash with those philly teams and he puts up a lot more than he is doing in Columbus. He's putting up 30+ with zero talent around him. He should bring back more than Richards

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06-24-2012, 08:27 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by gravey9 View Post
If it's not, then screw Howson. There's already a precedent for a better, younger player. And for those of you clammoring to have the balls the Kings, you really need to look at the actual numbers (both scoring and $)

Finally, in digging deeper, Rick Nash has only scored 6 power play goals in the last two seasons... he's not an offensive juggernaut as everyone on here is suggesting. As far as scoring, he's not even Mike Gartner. (and we only lost Ulf Dahlen for him).
I don't see how this matters much, CBJ doesn't have a great power play. That aside though Ryan Callahan isn't an offensive juggernaut and he scores most of his goals on the power play... The fact that Nash scores more at even strength isn't a negative.

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06-24-2012, 08:27 PM
  #969
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I really don't think Sather is afraid to make a trade, he just isn't going to unless it makes sense and he feels like he won the deal.
I'm not sure.

Remember the adage that....generals always fight the last war especially if they won it.

The opposite might also be true. Near the end of his term, Sather might be afraid to make the same mistake that he made in 2004?

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06-24-2012, 08:28 PM
  #970
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Dubinsky, Hagelin, miller or erixon and a pick. I wouldn't give up kreider because of his hit or stepan bc I've been thinking about it he might be the future #1 c as brad ages. But Hagelin? Yes. Aa? Yes mdz? Yes. And no not all of them

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06-24-2012, 08:28 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The price was too high at the deadline too in the middle of a cup run. Why would u expect Sather to do anything this deadline? He's just like cashman both are solid, they bring in good free agents, and they pick up people who help, but both are scared to make the trade that could put us over the top.
What you call fear I call smart business. Should we obtain Nash or Ryan no matter the cost? Making no move is far better than making a bad move. Given all the bad moves Sather has made over the years, you should be happy that he's not willing to overpay, because overpaying for either of those players isn't going to make us a better team.

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06-24-2012, 08:28 PM
  #972
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Do we get skinner? If staal goes to Nc, that's who I want
Terrible value. We get a redundant 2nd line, young center for cost of an elite shut down d.

You're operating under this notion that whoever we want will just magically appear on our roster, so our needs can always be met. Suter wants no part of a city, so he's not replacing Staal. Schultz is still a crap shoot, both in the sense of us getting him and if he'll even pan out let alone eclipse McD's pace in reaching the NHL. Parise is using us for leverage.

Come to think of it, we just need help with secondary scoring and a competent defenseman. It's not glamourous, but adding Whitney/Ryder and a Gill would be a homerun offseason. Leave the 'over the top' stuff for the deadline.


And another note, Hagelin worked on the 1st line. Not every first line is 3 all stars. Philly crushes it on O every year with a mix of talent on all 4 lines. Hartnels, Simmondses, Carcilos... What works works. We're trying to fix what isn't a problem before we address true needs, that's why we're trading away top 4 defensemen for wings that are a luxury.

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06-24-2012, 08:29 PM
  #973
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I'm not sure.

Remember the adage that....generals always fight the last war especially if they won it.

The opposite might also be true. Near the end of his term, Sather might be afraid to make the same mistake that he made in 2004?
I think he has put himself on a tighter leash sure, no one want's to repeat bad history. I just don't think he is afraid to improve this team via trade if that's what it takes. I mean he's been rumored in a lot of deals and has stuck to his guns about the kids. He wants to make a hockey deal, which isn't what Howson or Murray want right now.

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06-24-2012, 08:31 PM
  #974
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Terrible value. We get a redundant 2nd line, young center for cost of an elite shut down d.

You're operating under this notion that whoever we want will just magically appear on our roster, so our needs can always be met. Suter wants no part of a city, so he's not replacing Staal. Schultz is still a crap shoot, both in the sense of us getting him and if he'll even pan out let alone eclipse McD's pace in reaching the NHL. Parise is using us for leverage.

Come to think of it, we just need help with secondary scoring and a competent defenseman. It's not glamourous, but adding Whitney/Ryder and a Gill would be a homerun offseason. Leave the 'over the top' stuff for the deadline.


And another note, Hagelin worked on the 1st line. Not every first line is 3 all stars. Philly crushes it on O every year with a mix of talent on all 4 lines. Hartnels, Simmondses, Carcilos... What works works. We're trying to fix what isn't a problem before we address true needs, that's why we're trading away top 4 defensemen for wings that are a luxury.
I've said I don't touch the D unless we get Suter and its a joke bc he's not coming and I know this which means I'm not touching the D period.

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06-24-2012, 08:34 PM
  #975
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I think he has put himself on a tighter leash sure, no one want's to repeat bad history. I just don't think he is afraid to improve this team via trade if that's what it takes. I mean he's been rumored in a lot of deals and has stuck to his guns about the kids. He wants to make a hockey deal, which isn't what Howson or Murray want right now.
I disagree about Murray. We can't afford to lose step, but a package w him a roster guy like AA or something plus a pick for Ryan is absolutely a hockey trade

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