HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Your 2012-2013 St. Louis Blues...part zwei

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2012, 05:54 PM
  #101
HooliganX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,115
vCash: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignore42me View Post
Does anyone else see a lot of Parise in Schwartz? im really hoping he develops into a Parise type player.
There were a lot of comparisons after he was drafted. If he end up 3/4 the player Parise is I would be very happy.

HooliganX2 is online now  
Old
06-24-2012, 12:25 AM
  #102
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,224
vCash: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I think Stillman is proving how bad Checketts was at running the club from a business side. Stillman has appeared to already cut some of the costs; the budget doesn't seem to be a major issue this offseason; and since we have been rumored to be interested in players that have higher salaries, it must mean the budget is significantly higher than last season. I don't expect us to be a cap team, but all signs suggest that the budget will be high enough to allow Armstrong all the flexibility that he needs to reasonably find the player(s) that he wants.
I'm glad Stillman bought the team, but this is a little extreme. Firstly, we don't know what the budget is going to be for this season. Secondly, there's a big difference in taking over a team that was just 2 points off the Presidents' Trophy and with a young core expected to be a Cup contender....vs what Checketts took over.

I'm grateful he put great hockey people in charge and grew the team into what it is now. I'm hopeful Stillman takes it the rest of the way. Its too bad Checkett's funding didn't work out better, but no reason to rewrite history to make him into something he wasn't. Its not like he sold off the star players for spare parts and gutted the franchise before selling. As fans, I think we can at least remember him fondly as the guy who turned the ship the right direction. He just exhausted his resources in a bad economy and ran out of time.

2 Minute Minor is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 12:44 AM
  #103
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I'm glad Stillman bought the team, but this is a little extreme. Firstly, we don't know what the budget is going to be for this season. Secondly, there's a big difference in taking over a team that was just 2 points off the Presidents' Trophy and with a young core expected to be a Cup contender....vs what Checketts took over.

I'm grateful he put great hockey people in charge and grew the team into what it is now. I'm hopeful Stillman takes it the rest of the way. Its too bad Checkett's funding didn't work out better, but no reason to rewrite history to make him into something he wasn't. Its not like he sold off the star players for spare parts and gutted the franchise before selling. As fans, I think we can at least remember him fondly as the guy who turned the ship the right direction. He just exhausted his resources in a bad economy and ran out of time.
I'm not taking anything away from what Checketts did on the hockey side of things. He did tremendous things for this club and despite our financial situation, he left it miles better than Laurie did.

I'm talking strictly on the business side of things. I think he got to caught up in pleasing the fans and took it too an extreme. It worked, but he lost a lot of revenue in the process. He also gave JD a contract which was too much for our financial situation. JD isn't even an essential piece anymore as they don't need someone out selling the team to the public.

I question Checketts' business smarts and decisions, not his decisions on the hockey side of things, which were to let the hockey people do their thing.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 03:52 AM
  #104
Multimoodia
Sicker Than Usual
 
Multimoodia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Range
Posts: 1,906
vCash: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I'm talking strictly on the business side of things. I think he got to caught up in pleasing the fans and took it too an extreme. It worked, but he lost a lot of revenue in the process.
Disagree here in part. I think Checketts did have relatively lousy business sense but not for the reasons you specify. The fact that he sold off the concession percentage was dumb.
I am not sure how much you can blame him trying to please the fans though. After the lockout and the Laurie debacle he had to go a bit above and beyond to get butts in the seats at the Kiel. Signing the free agents he did was likely not his preferred way of handling things, but with the Blues pulling in an astounding 13K a night they had to get the casual fan interested again. Plus with a team as poor as the Blues the only players you are going to get to join your team will be those with dollar signs in their eyes.

Quote:
JD isn't even an essential piece anymore as they don't need someone out selling the team to the public.
Checketts was not given the gift of foresight, I doubt he or any other person in the Blues' brass saw the rise from out of the playoffs to being within a few points of the President's trophy coming. And if the Blues backslide next year because they over-achieved this past one, it may be nice to have JD there again to get people to back off the ledges.

Multimoodia is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 04:33 PM
  #105
execwrite
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Peekskill, NY
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
Any interest in Brett Clark?

Can't rule out Carlo coming back. There isn't much out there.

execwrite is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 08:36 PM
  #106
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I think Stillman is proving how bad Checketts was at running the club from a business side. Stillman has appeared to already cut some of the costs; the budget doesn't seem to be a major issue this offseason; and since we have been rumored to be interested in players that have higher salaries, it must mean the budget is significantly higher than last season. I don't expect us to be a cap team, but all signs suggest that the budget will be high enough to allow Armstrong all the flexibility that he needs to reasonably find the player(s) that he wants.
Not quite. JR guessed in his chat this past Thurs that the budget would be a bit higher but not much higher. It's only a guess but obviously he knows more than the rest of us and and it's probably a pretty educated guess with all of the inside info he's privy to.

It sounds like the Blues will be able to fit in a high dollar salary but then they might have to skimp elsewhere to be able to afford it. JR mentioned Bouwmeester a number of times and quite honestly, I'm not a fan of his so I hope he's not the big salary they end up getting. My preference is Farrisob but of course, he's going to have a ton of teams after him so who knows what happens there. It should be an interesting summer!

STL fan in IA is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 08:41 PM
  #107
Ignore42me*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Not quite. JR guessed in his chat this past Thurs that the budget would be a bit higher but not much higher. It's only a guess but obviously he knows more than the rest of us and and it's probably a pretty educated guess with all of the inside info he's privy to.

It sounds like the Blues will be able to fit in a high dollar salary but then they might have to skimp elsewhere to be able to afford it. JR mentioned Bouwmeester a number of times and quite honestly, I'm not a fan of his so I hope he's not the big salary they end up getting. My preference is Farrisob but of course, he's going to have a ton of teams after him so who knows what happens there. It should be an interesting summer!

Ignore42me* is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 08:49 PM
  #108
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignore42me View Post
You never know what you're going to get when I type on my phone! Somehow Garrison became Farrisob...whoever/whatever that is! Only 2 letters off!

STL fan in IA is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:03 PM
  #109
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Even Farrisob would be better than Bouwmeester.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:23 PM
  #110
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Even Farrisob would be better than Bouwmeester.
Absolutely! HE wouldn't bring with him such a strangling contract. And as nobody's heard of him, he wouldn't have a hard time playing up to expectations.

Robb_K is online now  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:34 PM
  #111
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Even Farrisob would be better than Bouwmeester.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of Jay-Bo either. The guy's super soft, way overpaid AND would cost assets going the other way? No thanks.

Also, not that this should really be much of a factor in things but I briefly met Jay-Bo years ago when he still played for the Panthers and he's probably the most socially awkward person I've ever met. Well, the crazy cat lady who works in the accounting dept at my job might have him beat but the guy was just WEIRD.

STL fan in IA is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:36 PM
  #112
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Even the crazy cat lady in accounting would be better than Bouwmeester.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:41 PM
  #113
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Even Farrisob would be better than Bouwmeester.
haha i love these

I don't think he will be as bad as some of you think. Maybe he has been disinterested in hockey because he is playing in Calgary; maybe he is better suited to play a smaller role, similar to Jackman; maybe Hitch or Petro will be able to get the best out of him.

If we do trade for him, I trust Hitchcock and Armstrong.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:46 PM
  #114
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
Bouwmeester would only cost assets that we have a surplus of. A 2nd round pick that we have 2 of. On top of that, either a mid prospect, which we have a **** ton of or maybe D'Agostini, who doesn't really have a guaranteed spot.

That's why we'd be interested because he wouldn't cost many assets. Yandle or Staal will cost someone who is apart of the core.

If we can afford Jaybo, I expect us to be a strong contender for Suter and Garrison though. That's all that really matters from that Strickland tweet.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:52 PM
  #115
Dolph Ziggler
IC Champion
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 8,725
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Even Farrisob would be better than Bouwmeester.
This cracked me up.

Dolph Ziggler is online now  
Old
06-24-2012, 09:59 PM
  #116
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
Of the free agents, where would you guys rank Bouwmeester.

For arguments sake, lets say money is not an issue, and we have the money, and we don't have to give up anyone of any significance.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 10:04 PM
  #117
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Far more important than losing something like D'Agostini and a 3d or whatever (and I have no problem losing these assets) is the opportunity cost of having all that payroll accounted for an essentially unmovable asset. As nice a job as Armstrong and Hitchcock have done, every GM and head coach in the NHL is capable of making a mistake and has made mistakes in judgment. Being the best means you get it right most of the time, not all of the time. They obviously haven't made such a trade but honestly it's two huge things for me. First and foremost, Bouwmeester is simply the wrong player. I'd honestly rather they get Kuba (who I obviously don't want either) because at least he'd be a bridge at most. What's the hope with Bouwmeester, that in two summers he'd take a huge paycut? So what. He's still the wrong guy! A team like the LA Kings would go through him like butter. Once the guy is the wrong guy, it really doesn't matter what the price is. (see Colaiacovo, Carlo)

But considering that the price is also that the Blues would be completely hamstrung in their ability to manuever in their budget for two full years (that's a long freaking time at such a critical juncture of the franchise's growth), it's just a horrendous idea. Horrendous. It's so bad that I can't believe some Blues fans are talking themselves into it just because the focus is so heavily on finding a defenseman.

Really, giving up spare, minor assets to get Bouwmeester is such a fringe part of the consideration after those two big problems that it's more like icing on top of a bad idea. The Blues have had this need for two offseasons now and they've been very patient looking for the right moment to address the issue. If they have to ride things out a little longer they still have plenty of time. The 2013 trade deadline is many months away.

Even if he cost 3M a year he's the wrong guy. The wrong guy and completely locking up the budget into immobility? Terrible, terrible idea.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 10:09 PM
  #118
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
I'll be honest, I didn't barely read what you posted. I saw that you would prefer Kuba instead and stopped and started laughing. That was awesome. Well at least we all know what you think of Jaybo, and that is lower than dog terds.

I really wonder if Jaybo is in the wrong situation.

I think the important thing is that we will be realistically be able to sign Suter, and depending on what Vancouver does, we should be one of the top contenders for Garrison.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 10:14 PM
  #119
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I'll be honest, I didn't barely read what you posted. I saw that you would prefer Kuba instead and stopped and started laughing. That was awesome. Well at least we all know what you think of Jaybo, and that is lower than dog terds.

I really wonder if Jaybo is in the wrong situation.

I think the important thing is that we will be realistically be able to sign Suter, and depending on what Vancouver does, we should be one of the top contenders for Garrison.
It's not that he's lower than dog turds but he's just so average and he's not that physical or competitive. He's Eric Brewer, only about 57% more expensive.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 11:01 PM
  #120
Randall Ritchey
HockeyBuzz Blues
 
Randall Ritchey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 10,708
vCash: 50
Well, if Garrison is signed, he already has a nickname.

Randall Ritchey is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 11:02 PM
  #121
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,224
vCash: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Even Farrisob would be better than Bouwmeester.
I lolled.

2 Minute Minor is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 11:10 PM
  #122
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
It's not that he's lower than dog turds but he's just so average and he's not that physical or competitive. He's Eric Brewer, only about 57% more expensive.
I just wonder if he's lost his passion playing for Calgary all these years and if he came to St. Louis, he could regain it.

I wonder if the mention of Bouwmeester was Strickland speculating or if it was something Armstrong hinted at.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 11:18 PM
  #123
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Far more important than losing something like D'Agostini and a 3d or whatever (and I have no problem losing these assets) is the opportunity cost of having all that payroll accounted for an essentially unmovable asset. As nice a job as Armstrong and Hitchcock have done, every GM and head coach in the NHL is capable of making a mistake and has made mistakes in judgment. Being the best means you get it right most of the time, not all of the time. They obviously haven't made such a trade but honestly it's two huge things for me. First and foremost, Bouwmeester is simply the wrong player. I'd honestly rather they get Kuba (who I obviously don't want either) because at least he'd be a bridge at most. What's the hope with Bouwmeester, that in two summers he'd take a huge paycut? So what. He's still the wrong guy! A team like the LA Kings would go through him like butter. Once the guy is the wrong guy, it really doesn't matter what the price is. (see Colaiacovo, Carlo)

But considering that the price is also that the Blues would be completely hamstrung in their ability to manuever in their budget for two full years (that's a long freaking time at such a critical juncture of the franchise's growth), it's just a horrendous idea. Horrendous. It's so bad that I can't believe some Blues fans are talking themselves into it just because the focus is so heavily on finding a defenseman.

Really, giving up spare, minor assets to get Bouwmeester is such a fringe part of the consideration after those two big problems that it's more like icing on top of a bad idea. The Blues have had this need for two offseasons now and they've been very patient looking for the right moment to address the issue. If they have to ride things out a little longer they still have plenty of time. The 2013 trade deadline is many months away.

Even if he cost 3M a year he's the wrong guy. The wrong guy and completely locking up the budget into immobility? Terrible, terrible idea.
+1! THIS is it in a nutshell. Strangling contract-lost opportunity (salary can't be used to put towards team needs) doesn't solve problem of needing big, tough crease-clearer, and player who can replace Pietrangelo in a pinch.

Suter fills that role, Bouwmeester doesn't. Yandle is closer, but really doesn't fill it well.

Truly, there are two different aspects of the problem. They need to have the best defence on the ice for the most minutes per game.

That issue was handled well when The Blues had both MacInnis and Pronger, by playing them on SEPARATE shifts, to make sure that they had a dominant, take-charge defenceman on the ice as much as possible (90% of each game). The two "anchor" d-men were only on the ice together o the power play, or on key shifts near the end of games or periods.

IF Suter IS actually signed by The Blues, I would rather have him anchor the 2nd defensive shift, and handles the same way as Pronger/MacInnis. THAT way, The Blues would always have a solid all-star defenceman on the ice for the great majority of each game.

That would mean that Cole would STILL be counted upon to upgrade his game significantly (through experience) to play alongside Pietrangelo-OR Pietrangelo is moved to the left side and the defensive pairs are shaken up. But there is STILL a problem with the pairings. But, I wouldn't want to "waste" having both Pietrangelo AND Suter on the same pairing, and move to a weaker pairing for the 2nd shift.

If Pietrangelo IS moved to the left side:

Pietrangelo-Polak?

Suter-Shattenkirk

Cole/Russell-Jackman?

I see that moving Pietrangelo to the left side doesn't help the problem of who becomes his shiftmate. Suter would be the only other d-man who could play on the first shift. It would be a shame to have a big fall-off from the first to 2nd shift (as the top 2 shifts should make up a big % of total minutes.

So, instead, we give 24 min. each to Suter-Pietrangelo (including their special teams' minutes), then do we have Jackman/Cole-Shattenkirk on the 2nd shift, with Cole eating minutes that Jackman can no longer handle strongly? Jackman averages 14 min. per game(including PK), Shattenkirk 20 min. (including PP). Then, on the 3rd shift, Russell averages 13 min (including 2nd PP shift time), Cole gets some min. on 3rd shift. And, between 2nd and 3rd, he averages 10 min. and Polak averages 15 min. (including some PK time).

There should be a total of 120 minutes for defenceman (2 -for 60 playing minutes).

Of course, this assumes no injuries. The beauty of having 7 regular d-men is that the 7th man gets almost as many minutes as the 6th, alternating some with the 6th, and both picking up extra minutes filling in for injured players.

Pietrangelo

Robb_K is online now  
Old
06-24-2012, 11:23 PM
  #124
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
Do you think we could get Suter at 5/30 or 6/36? This is gonna be a weird sweepstakes for him, as 3 of the potential active bidders will all be division rivals. If we can pull this off, we make Detroit and Nashville worse, and that makes us even better.

If we can afford 6.6 over the next 2 seasons, we can afford what Suter wants. Army should get knighted if he can land Suter.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
06-24-2012, 11:28 PM
  #125
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 50
Lou Korac, someone who hates rumors is saying that Garrison and Carle are 2 options to keep an eye on. I'm guessing those are the 2 likeliest possibilities and in the end, we will probably end up with one of them.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.