HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

2012 NHL Entry Draft - Rounds 2-7 - 10am EST (NHL Network) - Part 5

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-24-2012, 05:37 PM
  #901
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
There must be a back story here because I thought his post was quite civil and logical. I'm not sure why you took this so personal.
Agreed 100% - McCagg's post was totally acceptable and accurate. Way too much estrogen flying around on this board sometimes.

Fozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 06:06 PM
  #902
Chris Roberts
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 162
vCash: 500
Montreal draft thoughts from a Leaf fan: http://ridinthepine2.wordpress.com/2...the-winner-is/

__________________
Twitter - Chris Roberts
Ridin' The Pine
Chris Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 06:33 PM
  #903
Prospector
Registered User
 
Prospector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Roberts View Post
Montreal draft thoughts from a Leaf fan: http://ridinthepine2.wordpress.com/2...the-winner-is/
Thanks nice read!!

Prospector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 06:36 PM
  #904
Whitesnake
Year of the Snake
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Roberts View Post
Montreal draft thoughts from a Leaf fan: http://ridinthepine2.wordpress.com/2...the-winner-is/
Great read....obviously it's in our favor so....very very good read....and especially coming from a leaf fan...

By the way...back at you...great trade with JVR.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 06:44 PM
  #905
LaurentHabs
Galchenyuk2Collberg
 
LaurentHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,583
vCash: 500
Love how both Galchenyuk & Forsberg already changed their Twitter avatars to pictures of them with a Habs sweater on

LaurentHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 06:49 PM
  #906
znk
Registered User
 
znk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurentHabs View Post
Love how both Galchenyuk & Forsberg already changed their Twitter avatars to pictures of them with a Habs sweater on
Forsberg is confused.

znk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 06:54 PM
  #907
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurentHabs View Post
Love how both Galchenyuk & Forsberg already changed their Twitter avatars to pictures of them with a Habs sweater on
Gally, Collberg, Vail and Hudon all changed their twitter avatars already.

Thrower and Bozon.

Et le But is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 07:14 PM
  #908
LaurentHabs
Galchenyuk2Collberg
 
LaurentHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
Forsberg is confused.
LMAO. My bad..

Hey, Collberg and Forsberg finish with berg. Wasn't that far off

LaurentHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 07:26 PM
  #909
Grant McCagg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,685
vCash: 500
'We all miss on players in the draft. Every year I overrate or underrate some guys in comparison to what goes down in the draft. A very inexact science projecting the 200 best 17-year-olds in the world. That is why I make a point of not stating absolutes like "every team missed the boat on this guy or that guy." You cant get them all right, and even though NHL teams don't always get it right, it's usually guys who were drafted that make the show.

When I first started scouting seriously about 6 years ago I thought Simon Lacroix would one day be an NHLer....today he's playing Canadian university hockey. Really liked his smarts and leadership qualities, but I was told he wasn't a good enough skater for his size and they were right. I evolved somewhat from those days, but there are always going to be guys you like that slip through the cracks.

This year other than Quentin Shore, Ikonen and Slepyshev the only real misses in my first three rounds were goalies. Goalies are the hardest to judge. I had Makarov, Whitney and Houser all ranked in the third round. I can see why CS does separate lists for goalies.

I don't think teams were wacky not to draft the guys I had ranked in my top 90 = I figure they have good reasons for passing them over. 30 teams have ten or so scouts watching these kids live every week...I'm just one scout who's seen the later ranked guys very little other than on video as a rule...I am not going to proclaim that the pros are dead wrong and I am right on these guys...I'm thinking I probably overrated these guys because I saw them at their best when I did see them.

Grant McCagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 07:28 PM
  #910
Crimson Skorpion
Global Moderator
 
Crimson Skorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lachine, Quebec
Country: Germany
Posts: 26,049
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Roberts View Post
Montreal draft thoughts from a Leaf fan: http://ridinthepine2.wordpress.com/2...the-winner-is/
Nice read!

I would put Buffalo in as a winner as well. Girgensons and Grigorenko are two C that will help the team in the long run and Ullmark is a steal. I loved that pick.

__________________
"I really like the way Drew Doughty plays the game. He's like a defenceman version of Erik Karlsson."
-68
Crimson Skorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 07:30 PM
  #911
HomaridII
Registered User
 
HomaridII's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
'We all miss on players in the draft. Every year I overrate or underrate some guys in comparison to what goes down in the draft. A very inexact science projecting the 200 best 17-year-olds in the world. That is why I make a point of not stating absolutes like "every team missed the boat on this guy or that guy." You cant get them all right, and even though NHL teams don't always get it right, it's usually guys who were drafted that make the show.

When I first started scouting seriously about 6 years ago I thought Simon Lacroix would one day be an NHLer....today he's playing Canadian university hockey. Really liked his smarts and leadership qualities, but I was told he wasn't a good enough skater for his size and they were right. I evolved somewhat from those days, but there are always going to be guys you like that slip through the cracks.

This year other than Quentin Shore, Ikonen and Slepyshev the only real misses in my first three rounds were goalies. Goalies are the hardest to judge. I had Makarov, Whitney and Houser all ranked in the third round. I can see why CS does separate lists for goalies.

I don't think teams were wacky not to draft the guys I had ranked in my top 90 = I figure they have good reasons for passing them over. 30 teams have ten or so scouts watching these kids live every week...I'm just one scout who's seen the later ranked guys very little other than on video as a rule...I am not going to proclaim that the pros are dead wrong and I am right on these guys...I'm thinking I probably overrated these guys because I saw them at their best when I did see them.
Very nice post Grant. Thank you for that.

HomaridII is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 07:41 PM
  #912
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurentHabs View Post
LMAO. My bad..

Hey, Collberg and Forsberg finish with berg. Wasn't that far off
Can we ask Washington for a 1 vs 1 swap then ?

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 08:39 PM
  #913
Whitesnake
Year of the Snake
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
'We all miss on players in the draft. Every year I overrate or underrate some guys in comparison to what goes down in the draft. A very inexact science projecting the 200 best 17-year-olds in the world. That is why I make a point of not stating absolutes like "every team missed the boat on this guy or that guy." You cant get them all right, and even though NHL teams don't always get it right, it's usually guys who were drafted that make the show.

When I first started scouting seriously about 6 years ago I thought Simon Lacroix would one day be an NHLer....today he's playing Canadian university hockey. Really liked his smarts and leadership qualities, but I was told he wasn't a good enough skater for his size and they were right. I evolved somewhat from those days, but there are always going to be guys you like that slip through the cracks.

This year other than Quentin Shore, Ikonen and Slepyshev the only real misses in my first three rounds were goalies. Goalies are the hardest to judge. I had Makarov, Whitney and Houser all ranked in the third round. I can see why CS does separate lists for goalies.

I don't think teams were wacky not to draft the guys I had ranked in my top 90 = I figure they have good reasons for passing them over. 30 teams have ten or so scouts watching these kids live every week...I'm just one scout who's seen the later ranked guys very little other than on video as a rule...I am not going to proclaim that the pros are dead wrong and I am right on these guys...I'm thinking I probably overrated these guys because I saw them at their best when I did see them.
And there's nothing with everything you said it there. Absolutely nothing and I totally agree with it. My one liner about not believing he or he was not chosen, was mostly about how stunned I was that they weren't. I ABSOLUTELY do respect the job you and your fellow scouts are doing. Geez, that's what I'm and others are doing in this board is "play" the scout. With the limited possibilities and viewings we have. So if I do it is because I respect it. And totally understand the inexact science it is. But as armchair "scout", "fan" or whatever, I believe it is somehow our role in a discussion forum, to wonder why this or that happened. And fortunately, it's by having somebody in the business, like you, who can then shed the light to the reality of the business. Fact remains is that it will alwasy be about what we know, which is, I agree, so little. But it will always be that way. Whether it's about the scouts, the GM's, the coach's or even the players.

Anyway, great post Grant.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 08:44 PM
  #914
SergeConstantin74
Always right.
 
SergeConstantin74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Can we ask Washington for a 1 vs 1 swap then ?
I wouldn't.

SergeConstantin74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:20 PM
  #915
Top Corner2
Registered User
 
Top Corner2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
'We all miss on players in the draft. Every year I overrate or underrate some guys in comparison to what goes down in the draft. A very inexact science projecting the 200 best 17-year-olds in the world. That is why I make a point of not stating absolutes like "every team missed the boat on this guy or that guy." You cant get them all right, and even though NHL teams don't always get it right, it's usually guys who were drafted that make the show.

When I first started scouting seriously about 6 years ago I thought Simon Lacroix would one day be an NHLer....today he's playing Canadian university hockey. Really liked his smarts and leadership qualities, but I was told he wasn't a good enough skater for his size and they were right. I evolved somewhat from those days, but there are always going to be guys you like that slip through the cracks.

This year other than Quentin Shore, Ikonen and Slepyshev the only real misses in my first three rounds were goalies. Goalies are the hardest to judge. I had Makarov, Whitney and Houser all ranked in the third round. I can see why CS does separate lists for goalies.

I don't think teams were wacky not to draft the guys I had ranked in my top 90 = I figure they have good reasons for passing them over. 30 teams have ten or so scouts watching these kids live every week...I'm just one scout who's seen the later ranked guys very little other than on video as a rule...I am not going to proclaim that the pros are dead wrong and I am right on these guys...I'm thinking I probably overrated these guys because I saw them at their best when I did see them.

Hey Grant,

Can you explain why the habs took more chl players this year & no ushl or high school kids. Do you think this is just a matter of where they ended up picking....or might this have something to do with different voices in the draft.

BTW it's funny you mention the Islanders draft where they took Bailey, Hamonic & Trivino. Jankowski was working for the Isles back then, this draft seems more like the types of drafts they used to have. I'd love to get your take on it...

Top Corner2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 01:39 AM
  #916
LaurentHabs
Galchenyuk2Collberg
 
LaurentHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Corner2 View Post
Hey Grant,

Can you explain why the habs took more chl players this year & no ushl or high school kids. Do you think this is just a matter of where they ended up picking....or might this have something to do with different voices in the draft.

BTW it's funny you mention the Islanders draft where they took Bailey, Hamonic & Trivino. Jankowski was working for the Isles back then, this draft seems more like the types of drafts they used to have. I'd love to get your take on it...
Been wondering this aswell. Seems like theres a different trend since the 06 draft.. Habs picking more CHL prospects than they used to, and less USHL/College

LaurentHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 07:31 AM
  #917
Grant McCagg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And there's nothing with everything you said it there. Absolutely nothing and I totally agree with it. My one liner about not believing he or he was not chosen, was mostly about how stunned I was that they weren't. I ABSOLUTELY do respect the job you and your fellow scouts are doing. Geez, that's what I'm and others are doing in this board is "play" the scout. With the limited possibilities and viewings we have. So if I do it is because I respect it. And totally understand the inexact science it is. But as armchair "scout", "fan" or whatever, I believe it is somehow our role in a discussion forum, to wonder why this or that happened. And fortunately, it's by having somebody in the business, like you, who can then shed the light to the reality of the business. Fact remains is that it will alwasy be about what we know, which is, I agree, so little. But it will always be that way. Whether it's about the scouts, the GM's, the coach's or even the players.

Anyway, great post Grant.
Good reply WS. I end up getting a bit frustrated on here at times with all the shots scouts and teams get about not taking this guy or that guy...like the person posting knows way more than the guys being paid to do it. I've been guilty of it in the past myself, but iIve learned with time that I don't get them all right whether I'm doing this for a living or just as a hobby..nobody does.

One of the things that makes Trevor such a good head scout is that he's not bullheaded and inflexible...he will change his mind about a player. Samuelsson's a good example..early in the year our first draft list with McKeen's had Samuelsson in the top 30..he told me we were way off...he saw him playing for Modo and he was playing like crap...Nystrom looked better.

I saw Sammy later in the year when he first went to Edmonton, and told Trevor I thought he was wrong about Sammy...that I liked what i saw even if his skating needed some work. By the end of the year Trevor had him in his first round,,,not because I told him liked him, but because he kept an open mind and went back to see him a few times and changed his mind on him.

Grant McCagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 07:38 AM
  #918
Grant McCagg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Corner2 View Post
Hey Grant,

Can you explain why the habs took more chl players this year & no ushl or high school kids. Do you think this is just a matter of where they ended up picking....or might this have something to do with different voices in the draft.

BTW it's funny you mention the Islanders draft where they took Bailey, Hamonic & Trivino. Jankowski was working for the Isles back then, this draft seems more like the types of drafts they used to have. I'd love to get your take on it...
The Habs took more CHLers than they used to because they were the top ranked players when their selection came up. Plain ans simple. Trevor doesn't go into a draft saying "I'm going to pick USHLer" or whatever..it all depends on how the draft unfolds.

If you want to dig deeper for a reason why there's more CHLers....Frank Jay is his right hand man now....and would have the most influence. He does a lot of scouting in the CHL....and has probably been hesitant not to overrank Americans playing in lower leagues ever since he picked Brian Lee over Staal when he was head scout in Ottawa.

Grant McCagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 09:42 AM
  #919
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Snippin' Yank
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,284
vCash: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Samuelsson's a good example..early in the year our first draft list with McKeen's had Samuelsson in the top 30..he told me we were way off...
Not a surprise to me that Trevor pays attention to McKeen's rankings...we got 5 of McKeen's top 45 after-all!

Marc the Habs Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 10:47 AM
  #920
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,880
vCash: 500
Thrower changed his twitter avatar, now Bozon not pictured in a Habs jersey.

Tim.

Et le But is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 10:52 AM
  #921
rockjngo
Registered User
 
rockjngo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,094
vCash: 500
I feel we had two first round picks this year.

1. Galchenyuk
2. Collberg (I expected this guy to go top 20)
3. Thrower (I would have picked him in second round and I think he'll be a fan favorite)
4. Bozon (Like Thrower I expected him to go in second round too)

The rest I don't know much about.

rockjngo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 11:09 AM
  #922
NWT Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Good reply WS. I end up getting a bit frustrated on here at times with all the shots scouts and teams get about not taking this guy or that guy...like the person posting knows way more than the guys being paid to do it. I've been guilty of it in the past myself, but iIve learned with time that I don't get them all right whether I'm doing this for a living or just as a hobby..nobody does.

One of the things that makes Trevor such a good head scout is that he's not bullheaded and inflexible...he will change his mind about a player. Samuelsson's a good example..early in the year our first draft list with McKeen's had Samuelsson in the top 30..he told me we were way off...he saw him playing for Modo and he was playing like crap...Nystrom looked better.

I saw Sammy later in the year when he first went to Edmonton, and told Trevor I thought he was wrong about Sammy...that I liked what i saw even if his skating needed some work. By the end of the year Trevor had him in his first round,,,not because I told him liked him, but because he kept an open mind and went back to see him a few times and changed his mind on him.
Grant, that is great insight. I fully agree on Sammy, as he was not all that impressive when he first came over from Sweden. However, by the end of the season and into the playoffs, he was a lot better player even with his sluggish skating at times. He and Lazar were very, very good in the playoffs, when St Croix and two of the 20 years olds sort of went into hiding for a while. In addition to contributing on offense, they were also the guys that Coach Laxdal went to in the last minute of a close game.

NWT Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 11:17 AM
  #923
hogtownhabsfan
Registered User
 
hogtownhabsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
I feel we had two first round picks this year.

1. Galchenyuk
2. Collberg (I expected this guy to go top 20)
3. Thrower (I would have picked him in second round and I think he'll be a fan favorite)
4. Bozon (Like Thrower I expected him to go in second round too)

The rest I don't know much about.
I think people would have been pretty happy with:

1. Galchenyuk
2.a) Thrower
2.b) Bozon
3. Vail

So yea, we basically got Collberg for free!

hogtownhabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 11:23 AM
  #924
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I think people would have been pretty happy with:

1. Galchenyuk
2.a) Thrower
2.b) Bozon
3. Vail

So yea, we basically got Collberg for free!
I was hoping to get Thrower with our 33rd pick and would have been happy with Bozon at 51. I mean is Bozon a worse prospect than second rounder Kristo?

Et le But is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 11:26 AM
  #925
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Galchenyuk and Collberg is like we got 2 first rounders.

Myron Gaines* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.