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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2012-2013 Season

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Old
06-25-2012, 12:06 AM
  #726
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Gossip usually is. We'll never know for absolutely sure what is true and isn't. I don't really need to. Things seem to have ended decently for everyone (except Columbus ). That's good enough for me.
Wasn't there a rumor that they both used hardcore drugs? Right, they could get away with doing that in the NHL.

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06-25-2012, 12:10 AM
  #727
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You don't know if he overreacted or not. There are a lot of substantiated accounts of Richards and Carter not being the best team mates and having off ice issues (I'll avoid specifics). By many accounts the situation had just become toxic and was not something that everyone involved was going to be able to work through. I'm glad a change of scenery did everyone well.

If the rookies you have are the rookies you want to build with, what is the benefit of missing the play-offs? You don't want them entering their prime with out ever having been in the post season. I really don't see what the criticism is there.

The one thing I'll agree with is the Bryzgalov signing. It was handled dreadfully and was a stupid ****ing decision regardless. Oh well, he's competent but overpaid. We can live with it.


The tone of this whole discussion about the Flyers is hilarious. It's all being conducted from a high horse. Enjoy your cup, but for Christ's sake, don't become Penguins fans.
You tell me I can't prove he overreacted but then you continue on with Carter and Richards toxic ******** which you can't prove either. They are so toxic that it took them a year to win a cup with another team. That proves that they weren't locker room cancers.

I'm not telling you to not make the playoffs, I'm saying if you want to rebuild then rebuild. Flyers have youth but they also entered last season leaning on the defense of two 35+ defensemen and a 30 year old goalie. The average age of their defense corp in 2011 was over 30 years old. That does not seem like a team that should be starting over. I'm happy to see them trading for a younger defenseman. Not happy to see their business tactics, but I think getting younger potential defensemen is what they should be doing, not signing a guy like Lilja to a two year contract.

In 2011, I saw 26 year old guys, 2010 eastern conference champions and franchise players, getting moved. I saw signing a 30 year old goaltender to a ludicrous contract. I saw a lot of questionable decisions. I also saw Snider's embarrassed and angry face after that horrible playoff series vs. Boston. That leads me to the conclusion that he had a lot to do with all the things that went down.

And I'm sorry if my criticism somehow makes me a Penguins fan, but I didn't start saying this stuff when the Kings won the cup. I live right outside of Philly, I was a Flyers fan, and I've been telling my family and friends who are all Flyers fans that the 2011 flyers offseason was stupid and overreactive and they didn't address any of the issues they needed to after they lost. And that Richards would win the Cup in LA. And I still have to hear people tell me that Richards and Carter were a problem and that Richards is a bad leader that should never have been captain and Carter is a playoff choker with no heart despite the fact that they just proved all those people wrong by helping the Kings win the Cup. What do they have to do to prove that they were not the issue in Philly?

The only common thread in this 35 year cup drought in Philly despite having the 2nd most winningest percentage in hockey is Ed Snider. Yet guys like Jeff Lurie and David Montgomery take all the heat when this guy hasn't won a damn thing since the mid 70s.

God, I post too many Flyers rants, but I get so pissed off when I have to listen to people every day making up this stupid locker room cancer ******** about Richards and Carter. Like they were the reason the Flyers weren't winning the Cup. They deserved a lot better than they got in Philly and they could win ten Cups and people would still tell me that the Flyers were never winning a Cup with them.

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06-25-2012, 12:23 AM
  #728
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Oh look, a bitter Flyers fan found these forums. Now fly away back to your boards and clean your tears on your Chris Pronger jersey.

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06-25-2012, 12:54 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Oh look, a bitter Flyers fan found these forums. Now fly away back to your boards and clean your tears on your Chris Pronger jersey.
I think it's time to cue the JVR was a locker room cancer rumor. That and Philly never would have won with him, so he must be traded.

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06-25-2012, 12:57 AM
  #730
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Locker room cancers who win a cup a year later, and a Philly team who is still turning over members of their "Core" from 2-3 years ago.

Yup the problem was with the guys who left



Why not try rebuilding your defense homer. Just sayin'.

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06-25-2012, 12:58 AM
  #731
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I think it's time to cue the JVR was a locker room cancer rumor. That and Philly never would have won with him, so he must be traded.
Not a day over 13 and already causing problems


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06-25-2012, 12:58 AM
  #732
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I think it's time to cue the JVR was a locker room cancer rumor. That and Philly never would have won with him, so he must be traded.
So naturally Toronto will win the cup next year?

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06-25-2012, 01:03 AM
  #733
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So naturally Toronto will win the cup next year?
I would laugh so hard.


Meanwhile Bobby Ryan and Keith Yandle have been linked to Philly in trade talks.


Five bucks says Coturier, Schenn, Wellwood, + a roster defenseman is the price.


For Ryan... It probably starts with Coturier and Briere.

Yandle...probably could go a tad lower...Voracek...Schenn...maybe even Briere.

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06-25-2012, 01:03 AM
  #734
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The only thing I will say in regards to the toxic this that and the other about Carter and Richards is this...I'm going to have to side with Lombardi when he says he knows what went on over there and he was fine with it and did not dissuade him from acquiring both of them. Lombardi, who does his due diligence and is calculating to a maddening level. Who still has contacts in Philadelphia. Whose staff is loaded with former Flyers, who I'm sure, still have ties to the organization and city. And somehow, Lombardi has been scooped by all Flyers fans who have internet access because everyone in Philadelphia knows Richards and Carter were up to no good? How ridiculous does it sound that Lombardi didn't know of these rumors and didn't investigate it? Crazy.

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06-25-2012, 01:06 AM
  #735
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I foresee Luke Schenn being a long time whipping boy there in Philly.

He's like...He's like a poorman's Dion Phaneuf.

....yea......

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06-25-2012, 01:07 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by cyclones22 View Post
The only thing I will say in regards to the toxic this that and the other about Carter and Richards is this...I'm going to have to side with Lombardi when he says he knows what went on over there and he was fine with it and did not dissuade him from acquiring both of them. Lombardi, who does his due diligence and is calculating to a maddening level. Who still has contacts in Philadelphia. Whose staff is loaded with former Flyers, who I'm sure, still have ties to the organization and city. And somehow, Lombardi has been scooped by all Flyers fans who have internet access because everyone in Philadelphia knows Richards and Carter were up to no good? How ridiculous does it sound that Lombardi didn't know of these rumors and didn't investigate it? Crazy.
There's all that, plus the fact that the Kings won the Cup with Richards and Carter. Clearly they were so toxic and detrimental to the locker room that every member of the Kings team has said this is the closest group of teammates they've ever played with.

Definitely Carter's and Richards' fault the Flyers couldn't win...

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06-25-2012, 01:08 AM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I would laugh so hard.


Meanwhile Bobby Ryan and Keith Yandle have been linked to Philly in trade talks.


Five bucks says Coturier, Schenn, Wellwood, + a roster defenseman is the price.


For Ryan... It probably starts with Coturier and Briere.

Yandle...probably could go a tad lower...Voracek...Schenn...maybe even Briere.
You would lose five bucks.

Move Schenn, a few days after reuniting him with his brother?

Really?

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06-25-2012, 01:10 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
You would lose five bucks.

Move Schenn, a few days after reuniting him with his brother?

Really?
Move Richards, their homegrown captain?

Move Carter, their homegrown goal scoring center/winger?

Move Van Riemsdyk, their homegrown power forward of the future?

Etc., etc...

EDIT: And I have a feeling Jay was referring to Brayden.

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06-25-2012, 01:12 AM
  #739
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If anything, Jeff Carter will put up the best numbers of his career next season. After all of the **** he went through, I'm sure he still wants even more vindication. I thought he played UNREAL in the Finals. I can't wait to see him for a full season under Sutter.


Back to the thread topic. Who do you guys see, outside of possibly Bernie, becoming our next Assistant? Do you think it would possibly be Scott Pellerin?

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06-25-2012, 01:12 AM
  #740
Ron
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Move Richards, their homegrown captain?

Move Carter, their homegrown goal scoring center/winger?

Move Van Riemsdyk, their homegrown power forward of the future?

Etc., etc...
I will agree they appear to be spinning, but even Holmgren wouldn't do something so boneheaded as that. The clear intention was to get both Schenn's playing together.

JVR wasn't working for them. He was spinning too...perhaps they need more patience, but I understand this latest move.

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06-25-2012, 01:14 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by jml87 View Post
You tell me I can't prove he overreacted but then you continue on with Carter and Richards toxic ******** which you can't prove either. They are so toxic that it took them a year to win a cup with another team. That proves that they weren't locker room cancers.
No, it proves that they're good hockey players who are a fit so far in their short time in LA. Richards hasn't been there a year, Carter 6 months. And how Carter handled the situation in Columbus is something that speaks to his character IMO (since we're talking about it). Perhaps they've changed from their experiences last Summer or are on their best behavior after how things ended here. Perhaps they are pure angels who've never done anything wrong. Perhaps they haven't had time for anyone to sour on them yet. It's almost certainly not as simple as any of that and probably some combination of all of them.

There's too much substantiated stuff that happened here before they got traded. You probably can't have that much smoke with no fire. I'm not saying they're bad guys, but I'm saying there were issues, which is pretty plain to see. I'm not out to assassinate any characters nor do I want to have this argument. I was just explaining what prompted to huge turnover on the Flyers roster. This stuff did is not stuff that came to light after that trades as people tried to come up with explanations. Lots of things had been talked about for a long time. If you think I'm an idiot with no point at all, that's fine man, I don't take it personally.


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I'm not telling you to not make the playoffs, I'm saying if you want to rebuild then rebuild. Flyers have youth but they also entered last season leaning on the defense of two 35+ defensemen and a 30 year old goalie. The average age of their defense corp in 2011 was over 30 years old. That does not seem like a team that should be starting over. I'm happy to see them trading for a younger defenseman. Not happy to see their business tactics, but I think getting younger potential defensemen is what they should be doing, not signing a guy like Lilja to a two year contract.
They don't want to rebuild honestly, they want to retool and stay competitive (seems to be working okay so far, we'll see how they go). If you also look, Pronger and Timonen were the only guys getting real minutes who were over thirty on our D. They were also our two best defensemen. They were also both signed before Richards and Carter were traded, which I would presume is the first move of the "rebuild". The rest of the minutes went to Coburn, Meszaros, Carle, Bourdon, Gustaffson, Grossmann, and Marshall and Lilja. 27 and younger guys, with the exception of Lilja.

Signing Lilja and getting Schenn are not contradictory moves. It's a capped league, there will always be budget veteran signings to flesh out rosters. It's not like if a team signs one vet d-man that means they've abandoned an agenda to get younger or retool.

Their business tactics how? They do business. They trade guys. The only person who I think got even a remotely raw deal was Carter (and a lot of that probably had to do with the fact that Richards and he were sort of a package deal. If he traded one, he had to trade them both since there was no way either was gonna want to stay).

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Originally Posted by jml87 View Post
In 2011, I saw 26 year old guys, 2010 eastern conference champions and franchise players, getting moved. I saw signing a 30 year old goaltender to a ludicrous contract. I saw a lot of questionable decisions. I also saw Snider's embarrassed and angry face after that horrible playoff series vs. Boston. That leads me to the conclusion that he had a lot to do with all the things that went down.
Right, you saw those two guys getting moved. That seems odd. I wonder why that would happen...perhaps there were some non-hockey related reasons.

As for Snider, yes he is impatient. He is older than dirt and he wants another cup before he dies. That is probably why we are so forgiving of him in Philly a lot of the time. We don't always love his approach, but damn if he doesn't try to give us a winner every year.

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Originally Posted by jml87 View Post
And I'm sorry if my criticism somehow makes me a Penguins fan, but I didn't start saying this stuff when the Kings won the cup. I live right outside of Philly, I was a Flyers fan, and I've been telling my family and friends who are all Flyers fans that the 2011 flyers offseason was stupid and overreactive and they didn't address any of the issues they needed to after they lost. And that Richards would win the Cup in LA. And I still have to hear people tell me that Richards and Carter were a problem and that Richards is a bad leader that should never have been captain and Carter is a playoff choker with no heart despite the fact that they just proved all those people wrong by helping the Kings win the Cup. What do they have to do to prove that they were not the issue in Philly?
No criticism doesn't make you a Penguins fan. The attitude of "silly Flyers, why are you doing that. Look this is how we did it, and we have a cup". It was an undertone in the discussion (sometimes stated outright).

They probably can't prove that they weren't an issue in Philly, because they're not in Philly anymore. I'm glad their new situation suits them better. Richards hated dealing with the media and wasn't talking to his coach by the end of the year. That isn't a functional Captain. I'm sorry if you don't like hearing that, but it's simple. He needed a new start in a new role, and the Flyers sure as hell weren't about to embarrass him by naming a different Captain. Use your head man, aside from what's kicked about as rumor, there are verified facts that tell the story too.

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The only common thread in this 35 year cup drought in Philly despite having the 2nd most winningest percentage in hockey is Ed Snider. Yet guys like Jeff Lurie and David Montgomery take all the heat when this guy hasn't won a damn thing since the mid 70s.
Are you really that plugged in to what's up here in Philly? Because amongst the Flyers fans he gets plenty of criticism. Especially for his perceived influence on how the Bryz deal went down. Amid the general public (i.e. casual fans) the Flyers are a distant third to the Phils and Eagles, so no, Snyder doesn't get much attention from them, good or bad.

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God, I post too many Flyers rants, but I get so pissed off when I have to listen to people every day making up this stupid locker room cancer ******** about Richards and Carter. Like they were the reason the Flyers weren't winning the Cup. They deserved a lot better than they got in Philly and they could win ten Cups and people would still tell me that the Flyers were never winning a Cup with them.
I didn't call them cancers really. I said there were tensions. That is not speculation, that is straight out of Laviolette's mouth. He and Richards weren't speaking by the end of his last season here. Cancers implies they couldn't work anywhere, and I don't think that's the case.

Were you ever in your life in a situation where you weren't going to do that well, or have a supervisor that you didn't get along with? Did that mean you were going to fail everywhere, or not get along with everyone? Sometimes certain situations just sour and nobody is faultless in all of it. Usually, once you're not so close to the situation you can see what part you played and you grow from it. Maybe that happened here...or maybe everybody has it all wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Oh look, a bitter Flyers fan found these forums. Now fly away back to your boards and clean your tears on your Chris Pronger jersey.
Do I sound particularly bitter? I'm not.

I'm a hockey fan and player first, a Flyers fan second (I just happened to grow up near Philly). I just figured some things were said that merited further discussion. I didn't think I was being a jerk to you (the entire board), perhaps you (personally) could return the favor.

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06-25-2012, 01:15 AM
  #742
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You would lose five bucks.

Move Schenn, a few days after reuniting him with his brother?

Really?
I misspoke on that...the price would have to be ONE of the following, Schenn, Coturier, Wellwood (Likely someone else young with him since he isn't that coveted.)

Schenn is out of the question because of reasons you stated...but that still doesn't stop him from being the ASKING price from the Ducks/Yotes for the likes of Yandle and Ryan.

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06-25-2012, 01:15 AM
  #743
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If anything, Jeff Carter will put up the best numbers of his career next season. After all of the **** he went through, I'm sure he still wants even more vindication. I thought he played UNREAL in the Finals. I can't wait to see him for a full season under Sutter.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a 40-goal season, really...if he can remain healthy, I am sure he will be consistent under Sutter, and 40 is a distinct possibility.

Quote:
Back to the thread topic. Who do you guys see, outside of possibly Bernie, becoming our next Assistant? Do you think it would possibly be Scott Pellerin?
It is really incredible to be saying this...but Sutter will have NO PROBLEM getting a top-notch assistant just watering at the mouth to improve the one area on a Stanley Cup champion that needs improvement...the power play.

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06-25-2012, 01:16 AM
  #744
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I just don't understand the constant large-scale reshuffling. Haven't for a few years. It doesn't make sense to many people.
Win Now mode

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06-25-2012, 01:17 AM
  #745
Ron
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Do I sound particularly bitter? I'm not.

I'm a hockey fan and player first, a Flyers fan second (I just happened to grow up near Philly). I just figured some things were said that merited further discussion. I didn't think I was being a jerk to you (the entire board), perhaps you (personally) could return the favor.
I don't think you sound bitter. Thanks for the input.

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06-25-2012, 01:19 AM
  #746
Ron
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I misspoke on that...the price would have to be ONE of the following, Schenn, Coturier, Wellwood (Likely someone else young with him since he isn't that coveted.)

Schenn is out of the question because of reasons you stated...but that still doesn't stop him from being the ASKING price from the Ducks/Yotes for the likes of Yandle and Ryan.
Yeah, I believe the Bobby Ryan thing will be resolved soon...no way the Ducks give him up and break up that line. That would be incredibly asinine.

They have to sit that boy down for a talk...maybe also keep the leaks from leaving the front office as well.

Sheesh, for such an outstanding offensive team the Ducks are really ****ing things up these days.

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06-25-2012, 01:20 AM
  #747
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I wouldn't be surprised to see a 40-goal season, really...if he can remain healthy, I am sure he will be consistent under Sutter, and 40 is a distinct possibility.
Carter will put up 20 goals with little to no effort, 30 probably on a consistent basis, and 40 with a healthy season, great power play, and 100 percent work ethic.

Imagine the Kings having a 40 goal scorer!!!

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06-25-2012, 01:20 AM
  #748
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Win Now mode
I like to call it the "Northeast Canada Syndrome"


...outside of Ottawa though They seem to know how to rebuild a team

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06-25-2012, 01:21 AM
  #749
Ron
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Win Now mode
Agreed...sounds like "Laker panic." Or "constant Knick mode."

Hmmmmm...Knicks haven't won since 1973. Flyers haven't won since 1975. I see a pattern forming...

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06-25-2012, 01:22 AM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I misspoke on that...the price would have to be ONE of the following, Schenn, Coturier, Wellwood (Likely someone else young with him since he isn't that coveted..
My guess: Read, Coturtier, first rounder

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