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Offer Sheets and Burke

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Old
06-24-2012, 10:10 PM
  #26
Tombernack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
Umm.. no?
Well I am obviously not a lawyer, but thats what I take away from article 10.4 of the CBA. Perhaps you can tell me where I'm confused.

http://www.nhlpa.com/docs/about-us/n...a_2005_cba.pdf

Page 38 of the PDF, article 10.4

I'd copy and paste it but its not an option it seems. I also guess that CBA is expiring any day now.

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06-24-2012, 10:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I just said that in response to the OP saying we should do it so teams don't ask us for our most valuable assets in trades .

I have no problem with offer sheets but they only have a chance of working in very unique situations and for the most part only serve to drive up prices for everyone .
I wasn't saying to do it as a deterrence mechanism or to throw a hissy fit it was just to put a fire under their ***** so they can be more realistic with their demands and maybe even bend them a little towards what we're offering. A threat of losing someone like Schneider I imagine would be a powerful motivator even if they match it then they would still be more eager to move Lu's abomination of a contract. And it would give the leafs a better idea of what cap space they have to work with for negotiations with other UFAs when the whole goalie situation is sorted out.

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06-24-2012, 10:16 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombernack View Post
Well I am obviously not a lawyer, but thats what I take away from article 10.4 of the CBA. Perhaps you can tell me where I'm confused.

[url]

Page 38 of the PDF, article 10.4

I'd copy and paste it but its not an option it seems. I also guess that CBA is expiring any day now.
On my phone right now, I'll look later, but I like to think I'd have caught that if it was the case, I've spent too much time reading that thing in my time here lol. Intrigued, once the wife hits the sack I'll fire it up.haven't looked at ye ole CBA in a while

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06-24-2012, 10:20 PM
  #29
Prophet Kadri
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Burke doesn't do offersheets, despite what he might say. Someone brought up to me a good point to me, you don't actually know if anyone especially Burke means what they say. Try not to be naive like me

The Phil Kessel deal where he gave up an extra pick would be a direct indication of this.

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06-24-2012, 10:23 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
On my phone right now, I'll look later, but I like to think I'd have caught that if it was the case, I've spent too much time reading that thing in my time here lol. Intrigued, once the wife hits the sack I'll fire it up.haven't looked at ye ole CBA in a while
Understood. I definitely didn't pull that theory out of the air, I'd heard it somewhere before, but then investigated once challenged. But I'm not fluent in lawyer-speak so I may well be stupid still.

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06-24-2012, 10:26 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
Burke doesn't do offersheets, despite what he might say. Someone brought up to me a good point to me, you don't actually know if anyone especially Burke means what they say. Try not to be naive like me

The Phil Kessel deal where he gave up an extra pick would be a direct indication of this.
No, the only thing it is a direct indication of is that Burke wanted Kessel, and didn't want to just have Boston match.

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06-24-2012, 10:36 PM
  #32
Prophet Kadri
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
No, the only thing it is a direct indication of is that Burke wanted Kessel, and didn't want to just have Boston match.
Well I could see it in a different light where he matches Kessel to the same price but doesn't give up a 2nd rounder. Chiarelli wouldn't have accepeted that trade if he would have matched.

But Burke doesn't want to do an offer sheet because he hates what happened between him, Penner, and Lowe. Also, as Burke has explained before it puts a target on your team because other GM's will say if they want to throw around offer sheets then its fair game for us to hit them. So he uses his spin doctor skills and makes it seem as if Boston would match to the media after we traded for Kessel.

Burke is not gonna do an offer sheet.

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06-24-2012, 11:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
Well I could see it in a different light where he matches Kessel to the same price but doesn't give up a 2nd rounder. Chiarelli wouldn't have accepeted that trade if he would have matched.

But Burke doesn't want to do an offer sheet because he hates what happened between him, Penner, and Lowe. Also, as Burke has explained before it puts a target on your team because other GM's will say if they want to throw around offer sheets then its fair game for us to hit them. So he uses his spin doctor skills and makes it seem as if Boston would match to the media after we traded for Kessel.

Burke is not gonna do an offer sheet.
What happened between him, Lowe and Penner had very little to do with offer sheets. It was about using offer sheets to significantly alter the 2nd player contract, and about going behind a GMs back and using underhanded tactics in the process.

Boston would have matched an offer sheet and then would have traded him a year later for a significantly higher return. Burke has publicly stated he has no problem with offer sheets multiple times, though I'm sure you attribute that Burke's skill to manipulate the entire world and media outlets that don't even talk to him.

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06-24-2012, 11:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
Haven't we learned our lesson yet?

1st line star center
Tyler Seguin 6'2" 210lbs

top 2 defenseman
Dougie Hamilton 6'4" 220lbs

No way I'm giving Schnieder an offer, not giving up another top 5 pick and top 10 pick.
You do realize that if we ended up with Schneider we would make the playoffs and wouldn't be drafting that high?

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06-24-2012, 11:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
You do realize that if we ended up with Schneider we would make the playoffs and wouldn't be drafting that high?
When did Schneider become such a high end proven goalie ? I really like the kid but he's far from proven and playing well behind a great team doesn't mean he could come here and put up the same numbers he does witht the Nucks .

Also , if all you needed was a quality goalie teams like the Canes and Buff would never miss the playoffs . Even high end goalies have off years and i'm in no hurry to gamble more 1st round picks .

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06-24-2012, 11:16 PM
  #36
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God i hope burke pulls though this summer..

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06-24-2012, 11:31 PM
  #37
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Can he offer sheet someone like Yakupov? Cuz that be hilarious.

Schneider / Price / Kane / Weber / Rask / Del Zotto / O' Reilly
All of those I'm up for offer-sheeting. And for the record, Burke said he hated how Lowe didn't give him a notice before offer-sheeting Penner, unlike how Burke was dangling the offersheet with Chiarelli to get him to trade Phil.

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Old
06-24-2012, 11:35 PM
  #38
rojac
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Originally Posted by Tombernack View Post
Well I am obviously not a lawyer, but thats what I take away from article 10.4 of the CBA. Perhaps you can tell me where I'm confused.

http://www.nhlpa.com/docs/about-us/n...a_2005_cba.pdf

Page 38 of the PDF, article 10.4

I'd copy and paste it but its not an option it seems. I also guess that CBA is expiring any day now.
CBA expires September 15.

And here is the CBA section you're referring to:

Quote:
10.4 Draft Choice Compensation for Restricted Free Agents
Any Club that is entitled to but does not exercise its Right of First Refusal
pursuant to Section 10.3 shall be entitled to obtain Draft Choice Compensation from the New Club. The number and quality of draft choices due to the Prior Club shall be based on the average annual value of the compensation contained in the Principal Terms (as defined in Section 10.3(e) hereof) of the New Club's Offer Sheet (determined by dividing such compensation by the lesser of the number of years of the Offer Sheet or five), based on the following scale:

Incidentally, while it seems you can't cut and paste from the NHLPA PDF of the CBA, you can from the NHL PDF (http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf).


Last edited by rojac: 06-24-2012 at 11:51 PM.
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Old
06-24-2012, 11:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Should offer Schnieder $6,268,174 cap hit. See if Gillis likes playing hard ball for Luongo. Also, didn't he offer sheet against someone else a few years back?
Yep, Backes.

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06-24-2012, 11:44 PM
  #40
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Burke has said that he isn't against offer sheets, but he prefers not to deal with them.

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06-24-2012, 11:44 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SchenntoRielly View Post
Can he offer sheet someone like Yakupov? Cuz that be hilarious.

Schneider / Price / Kane / Weber / Rask / Del Zotto / O' Reilly
All of those I'm up for offer-sheeting. And for the record, Burke said he hated how Lowe didn't give him a notice before offer-sheeting Penner, unlike how Burke was dangling the offersheet with Chiarelli to get him to trade Phil.
They cant offer sheet price he is going to arbitration, but one guy i would try to offer sheet, dont know if he has signed or not but on capgeek it shows hes rfa is David Perron. Id do the same thing with Kessel. Tell them you are going to make an offer sheet and see the cost. For him id easily give up 2013 first and someone a prospect. He would make this team better, very good defensively and good offence as well. Playing Lupul-Perron-Kessel, JVR-Grabo-Kulemin,Kadri-Bozak-Frattin are 3 scoring lines that other than Kessel Lupul and Kadri could be very responsible on the d as well. But with Army,Lambo,Connolly still here i think that line takes out the kadri line until the deadlien

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06-24-2012, 11:46 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SchenntoRielly View Post
Can he offer sheet someone like Yakupov? Cuz that be hilarious.

Schneider / Price / Kane / Weber / Rask / Del Zotto / O' Reilly
All of those I'm up for offer-sheeting. And for the record, Burke said he hated how Lowe didn't give him a notice before offer-sheeting Penner, unlike how Burke was dangling the offersheet with Chiarelli to get him to trade Phil.
Yakupov is not an RFA; therefore, you cannot try to get him to sign an offer sheet.

Also, remember that the player has to agree to the offer sheet. And I could see some players being reluctant to do so if they think their team will match because all his teammates are then going to know that he tried to leave the team by signing an offer sheet. And I'm not sure that is always going to go over well.

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Old
06-24-2012, 11:48 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Burke has said that he isn't against offer sheets, but he prefers not to deal with them.
Yeah, I think he feels that they can damage your relationship with the other GM.

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06-24-2012, 11:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Yeah, I think he feels that they can damage your relationship with the other GM.
Can't imagine the relationship between the Leafs and Canucks could get any worse. I'm all for poaching him like we poached Cujo from Edmonton (UFA).

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06-25-2012, 12:07 AM
  #45
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Can't imagine the relationship between the Leafs and Canucks could get any worse. I'm all for poaching him like we poached Cujo from Edmonton (UFA).
How would you consider signing Cujo to be poaching? If I remember correctly, there wasn't any talk of Cujo returning to Edmonton once he became a free agent. I seem to recall it was primarily Philadelphia and Toronto that were interested. He had already cut his ties pretty much with Edmonton.

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06-25-2012, 12:10 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Yeah, I think he feels that they can damage your relationship with the other GM.
I think most GMs look at offer sheets in that manner which is probably why many of them don't do it either.

It's not just about damaging your relationship with one particular GM, but considering that offer sheets are generally taboo among GMs, what kind of impression might you leave with other GMs in the league?

Edit: I think a lot of people draw on the controversy between Burke and Lowe but the issue wasn't the offer sheet itself, it was the fact that Edmonton offered a ridiculous amount to a player who was basically making the league minimum in the season prior. There's little justification in negotiating a deal like that other than desperation or sheer spite.


Last edited by Ari91: 06-25-2012 at 12:16 AM.
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Old
06-25-2012, 12:13 AM
  #47
Squiffy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombernack View Post
Well I am obviously not a lawyer, but thats what I take away from article 10.4 of the CBA. Perhaps you can tell me where I'm confused.

http://www.nhlpa.com/docs/about-us/n...a_2005_cba.pdf

Page 38 of the PDF, article 10.4

I'd copy and paste it but its not an option it seems. I also guess that CBA is expiring any day now.
Ya, you're right, that's how I read it too, good call. Surprised that never registered before. Honestly I figured you were working from like an NHL12 rule or something, so egg on my face and well deserved lol..

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06-25-2012, 12:45 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post

Edit: I think a lot of people draw on the controversy between Burke and Lowe but the issue wasn't the offer sheet itself, it was the fact that Edmonton offered a ridiculous amount to a player who was basically making the league minimum in the season prior. There's little justification in negotiating a deal like that other than desperation or sheer spite.
Teams offer inflated contracts so they arn't matched . There's no reason to offer a fair market contract because there would be zero reason for the club to not match .

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