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Your 2012-2013 St. Louis Blues...part zwei

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06-25-2012, 01:04 AM
  #126
Robb_K
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Lou Korac, someone who hates rumors is saying that Garrison and Carle are 2 options to keep an eye on. I'm guessing those are the 2 likeliest possibilities and in the end, we will probably end up with one of them.
Naturally, after Suter is grabbed by one of the 3-4 contenders, there will be one less bidder for Garrison. So, it is more likely that HE will end up with The Blues, because Suter has more control than he, requiring the bidders to meet his salary demands and location and size requirements. The Blues have less chance to land Suter, because they probably can be outbid in salary offer by Detroit and, possibly one or two other bidders. Their only chance is to be remotely close in their offer AND that medium-sized St. Louis, will be preferable to Suter over more pressured, more "eastern" Detroit, or Pittsburgh or the East Coast teams that might be interested.

The Blues probably can be completely competitive salarywise for Garrison, and their situation, with an opening competitive window with a young, very talented team, should be very attractive to him.

If they don't get Suter, I'll be at least mildly surprised, if they don't get Garrison (unless Armstrong pulls off another totally unexpected coup for a different player, that better fits the team's needs).

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06-25-2012, 02:11 AM
  #127
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Here's a weird argument I see some Blues fans make. Some say Suter wants 52M over 7 years and Bouwmeester is due 13.36M over 2 years, therefore implying it's 4x more expensive to sign Suter. Seriously, I see some Blues fans thinking this is a real argument.

People say they don't want to pay Garrison 5 yr 25M. But they'd want Bouwmeester because 2yr 13.36M is "cheaper." Do they think the three years after Bouwmeester's contract is up they're going to be paying a top four defenseman on what should be a Cup contender all three years only 3.88M?

6.68 + 6.68 + 3.88 + 3.88 + 3.88 = 25M over 5 years.

And Bouwmeester's worse than Garrison. Worse game defensively, much less physical, and nothing close to Garrison's shot. And older. And somehow even less playoff experience.

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06-25-2012, 03:49 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Here's a weird argument I see some Blues fans make. Some say Suter wants 52M over 7 years and Bouwmeester is due 13.36M over 2 years, therefore implying it's 4x more expensive to sign Suter. Seriously, I see some Blues fans thinking this is a real argument.

People say they don't want to pay Garrison 5 yr 25M. But they'd want Bouwmeester because 2yr 13.36M is "cheaper." Do they think the three years after Bouwmeester's contract is up they're going to be paying a top four defenseman on what should be a Cup contender all three years only 3.88M?

6.68 + 6.68 + 3.88 + 3.88 + 3.88 = 25M over 5 years.

And Bouwmeester's worse than Garrison. Worse game defensively, much less physical, and nothing close to Garrison's shot. And older. And somehow even less playoff experience.
I posted on the Flames Original Draft day thread the possiblity that the Blues were interested in Bouwmeester per JR's chat friday afternoon. Names banied about were Rattie, Schwartz, Cole and a 1st. No way don't do it! I'm sure a trade was discussed, so let's hope that's a dead in a water deal now.


Last edited by JustOneB4IDie: 06-25-2012 at 03:53 AM. Reason: misspell
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Old
06-25-2012, 12:31 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
I posted on the Flames Original Draft day thread the possiblity that the Blues were interested in Bouwmeester per JR's chat friday afternoon. Names banied about were Rattie, Schwartz, Cole and a 1st. No way don't do it! I'm sure a trade was discussed, so let's hope that's a dead in a water deal now.
There's no way Flames fans are that delusional. We would be doing them a favor getting that salary off their team. If any of Rattie, Schwartz, or Cole is offered for JBo, I would not be happy. Were they actually saying all of Rattie, Schwartz, Cole, and a 1st? Or were they saying one of Rattie, Schwartz, Cole or a first? That seems much more reasonable, not that I'd give up any of them. JBo really isn't much of an improvement over what Cole would be in a couple of years with reasonable playing time. No chance they are getting that in return. Maybe they've been talking to Scott Howson.

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06-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Maybe he has been disinterested in hockey because he is playing in Calgary; maybe he is better suited to play a smaller role, similar to Jackman
You want to pay 6.x million for a 3rd-at-best-defenseman?

And you think JayBo (who did not always seem the most enthused when in Florida either) will suddenly find his passion for the game in St. Louis?

You, good sir, are much more an optimist than I.

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06-25-2012, 01:26 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
You want to pay 6.x million for a 3rd-at-best-defenseman?

And you think JayBo (who did not always seem the most enthused when in Florida either) will suddenly find his passion for the game in St. Louis?

You, good sir, are much more an optimist than I.
I don't really want him, I'm just throwing scenarios out there. If Hitch thinks he'll be a fit, then sure go for it.

I'd rather us just resign Pietrangelo now instead of Jaybo.

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06-25-2012, 04:02 PM
  #132
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The problem with trading for Bou's contract is that we dont really have a large one that we can send back. Strick reported that we may have to get creative to make a large salary like that work. Stewart makes 3 mil, and I wouldnt move him for Bou (maybe Bou and Backlund though). Dagostini makes only 1.7 or something like that. Russell also doesnt make much.

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06-25-2012, 04:04 PM
  #133
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We'd probably dump the combination of D'Agostini, Crombeen, and Russell. Where as if we sign Garrison, we probably wouldn't have to move anyone. If we get Garrison, we'd only move people to balance the roster out.

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06-25-2012, 04:34 PM
  #134
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Interesting note from Hitch today on Bernie's mid-day show.

He cited one of the biggest offseason discussions he and Armstrong will have is in regards to the replacement of Arnott at 3rd line center.

And he certainly made it sound as if the replacement will be internal.

Gave three names: Steen, McDonald, and Schwartz which was quite interesting.

It's the second time in the last week where I've heard Hitch talk about Schwartz as if it's a foregone conclusion that he will be on the Blues to open the season. I can't remember the first time I heard it but he appears to be quite high on the kid.

Now he's even in the discussion of being an opening night 3rd line center.

Perhaps they've already slotted in Sobotka as the 4th line C and Nichol could be a goner.

If I'm not mistaken the last time Jaden played the middle full time was in his draft year with Tri-City...but defintely like the idea of having an excellent playmaker with vision down the middle despite what I'm sure will be some initial shortcomings defensively due to his size.

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06-25-2012, 05:39 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
Interesting note from Hitch today on Bernie's mid-day show.

He cited one of the biggest offseason discussions he and Armstrong will have is in regards to the replacement of Arnott at 3rd line center.

And he certainly made it sound as if the replacement will be internal.

Gave three names: Steen, McDonald, and Schwartz which was quite interesting.

It's the second time in the last week where I've heard Hitch talk about Schwartz as if it's a foregone conclusion that he will be on the Blues to open the season. I can't remember the first time I heard it but he appears to be quite high on the kid.

Now he's even in the discussion of being an opening night 3rd line center.

Perhaps they've already slotted in Sobotka as the 4th line C and Nichol could be a goner.

If I'm not mistaken the last time Jaden played the middle full time was in his draft year with Tri-City...but defintely like the idea of having an excellent playmaker with vision down the middle despite what I'm sure will be some initial shortcomings defensively due to his size.
That says a lot about the confidence Hitch has in Schwartz. Hitch traditionally really leans on his veterans and eases the younger guys into the action. Putting Schwartz as the center on the third line would be throwing him into the fire pretty quickly. I trust Hitch, and he certainly knows Jaden better than myself, but I think making him the 3c this early in his career would be a mistake. Schwartz in the starting lineup opening night would not upset me at all, as I think he played quite well and showed some flashes of brilliance. However, Centers typically have to cover much more ice and play more physical than wingers, both of which are not areas of strength for Jaden. I feel like you're making it very challenging for the kid to succeed if you put that much pressure on him. He hasn't even played center since his draft year.

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06-25-2012, 07:12 PM
  #136
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If Jaden is the 3rd line center, I think Steen will be on his left to help with the defensive responsibilities, just how he and Sobotka aided Arnott.

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06-25-2012, 08:15 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If Jaden is the 3rd line center, I think Steen will be on his left to help with the defensive responsibilities, just how he and Sobotka aided Arnott.
When I read they are considering Schwartz at C for next season, the first thing that came into my head is that the idea must be Steen-Schwartz-Stewart.

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06-25-2012, 08:15 PM
  #138
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Taken from my post on STLToday: Mueller wasn't qualified by the Avs today, and thus he'll be a UFA on July 1. He's listed as a Center, but I think he's mostly played wing in his career? Would he be worth giving a shot at the 3rd line center role?

The Avs not qualifying him is certainly concerning - he has a history of concussion issues (missed the entire '10-11 season. I'd assume we wouldn't want to gamble on that, but some team will. He still has a lot of upside, but he needs to be healthy.

Or, maybe the Avs don't want to pay him the minimum qualifying offer of 2.5 million, and want to negotiate with him as a UFA for a lower price?

I would give him a shot at 2.5 million. He has good size at 6'2, 205 lbs. He had 20 points in 15 games before his concussion during the '09-10 season.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...t-free-agency/

Read more: http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/...#ixzz1yqzr9ARp

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06-25-2012, 08:21 PM
  #139
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I'd certainly give him a look if he would take a two way contract. That seems pretty unlikely though. He has quite a bit of potential. If he doesn't play the C though, I don't see any reason to offer him a contract. We have so many skilled wingers, there's no reason to create more of a log jam.

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06-25-2012, 08:22 PM
  #140
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I don't think Mueller is worth the risk.

Perron-Backes-Oshie
McDonald-Berglund-Tarasenko
Steen-Schwartz-Stewart

Most of the pieces can be moved around, the point is, out top 9 is taken care of. We have 20 goal scores and big potential players on every line. If we stay healthy we have a top 10 offense.

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06-25-2012, 08:25 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I'd certainly give him a look if he would take a two way contract. That seems pretty unlikely though. He has quite a bit of potential. If he doesn't play the C though, I don't see any reason to offer him a contract. We have so many skilled wingers, there's no reason to create more of a log jam.
Yeah, I agree - no sense in signing him if he plays wing. But it's a different story if he plays center.

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06-25-2012, 08:27 PM
  #142
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I might be talking out of my ass, but I think that Mueller played some C for the Coyotes when he first came up, but was moved to the wing pretty quickly. Considering they've had a need at C for a while now, I don't think they'd have let him go if they believed he had a chance at being an effective C in the League.

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06-25-2012, 08:33 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by tfriede2 View Post
Taken from my post on STLToday: Mueller wasn't qualified by the Avs today, and thus he'll be a UFA on July 1. He's listed as a Center, but I think he's mostly played wing in his career? Would he be worth giving a shot at the 3rd line center role?

The Avs not qualifying him is certainly concerning - he has a history of concussion issues (missed the entire '10-11 season. I'd assume we wouldn't want to gamble on that, but some team will. He still has a lot of upside, but he needs to be healthy.

Or, maybe the Avs don't want to pay him the minimum qualifying offer of 2.5 million, and want to negotiate with him as a UFA for a lower price?

I would give him a shot at 2.5 million. He has good size at 6'2, 205 lbs. He had 20 points in 15 games before his concussion during the '09-10 season.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...t-free-agency/

Read more: http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/...#ixzz1yqzr9ARp
Didn't we do the same thing with Polak? (Or did we qualify him first?)

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06-25-2012, 08:43 PM
  #144
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Didn't we do the same thing with Polak? (Or did we qualify him first?)
A few years back? We must have qualified him, because he was earning League minimum, it wouldn't have made any sense not to.

I'm surprised the Avs didn't give him another year to see if he could stay healthy. They must like their chances of getting someone in FA.

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06-25-2012, 08:56 PM
  #145
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I hope we get Jason Garrison.

If not him, then I think Ian Cole should at least get a shot to start off the season.

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06-25-2012, 09:28 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I don't think Mueller is worth the risk.

Perron-Backes-Oshie
McDonald-Berglund-Tarasenko
Steen-Schwartz-Stewart

Most of the pieces can be moved around, the point is, out top 9 is taken care of. We have 20 goal scores and big potential players on every line. If we stay healthy we have a top 10 offense.
Those lines look very good.

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06-25-2012, 10:19 PM
  #147
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I'd be pretty concerned if Schwartz were the 3d line center going into next year. While I think Schwartz is going to be a great player and I'm open to him surprising me in this way, from what I've seen of him (especially his physical attributes) I think this wouldn't work. The good news is they'd obviously try it in preseason games first and if it didn't work it'd be obvious right away.

If they're filling from within and have to convert a winger to a center, here's the order I'd like to see them try:

1. McDonald
2. Oshie
3. Steen
4. D'Agostini
5. Schwartz

(Perron, Stewart, Tarasenko are pure wingers)

Hell, I'd almost rather have them put Langenbrunner in as a center. He's a smart player and has better wheels than Arnott did.

Reasoning for my order: McDonald has the most experience playing center. Kimzey is right when he talks about McDonald possibly having physical issues, and if that's the case you go with Oshie, but my first choice is keeping Backes and Oshie together and trying McDonald. I would say there's a gap between my second and third choices. Steen can do it but my god is he perfect at wing in a Hitchcock system. Just seems like such a bad use of resources to have to give that up.

(This all assumes they're not choosing Sobotka for that role)

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06-25-2012, 11:26 PM
  #148
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If McDonald becomes the "3rd" line center with Steen and Tarasenko or whoever else, can we just call that the 1st line.

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06-25-2012, 11:35 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If McDonald becomes the "3rd" line center with Steen and Tarasenko or whoever else, can we just call that the 1st line.
Yes! We could. But, I'll bet Hitch rolls all 3 lines with just about the same exact even strength ice time.

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06-25-2012, 11:49 PM
  #150
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Yes! We could. But, I'll bet Hitch rolls all 3 lines with just about the same exact even strength ice time.
That's what I figured too. No matter what the line number is, they are all going to get about the same amount of ice time. The Backes line will still go up against the other team's top scoring line, and the other two lines will be the primary scoring lines if all things go well. Backes' line certainly will put up points, but there's no reason why Backes should lead this team in scoring for the third straight year. He's an elite defensive forward, and he's good offensively, but he doesn't have the talent offensively that Perron, McDonald and even Tarasenko have. Barring injuries, I expect Mac to lead this team in scoring. Backes can take care of defensive and hopefully put up 50 points or so, while I hope for 65+ out of Mac and Perron. Also, I believe Steen was leading the team in scoring before he got injured, so he might have an outside shot of having a breakout year.

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