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The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly!

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06-25-2012, 06:32 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
The other bad thing about this Nash situation it that it's holding up any potential trade between the Rangers and Sharks where Murray and/or Clowe could come this way. Both would be good pickups. As I've said before, San Jose is desperate to change up something on that team. Time is running out for them and it may already be too late. By the time they develop their next batch of prospects, Thornton and Marleau will be old men and Paveslki and Clowe probably will be playing elsewhere.

As for Semin; yes it seems crazy, but if Keenan got the most out of Kovalev who was still a young kid that was barely in this country for more than a year, Torts and Semin can exist. If Semin wants to be part of something bigger than himself he should come here and work his butt off.
I highly doubt Semin comes to NYR. If I remember correctly Semin & his agent announced they wouldn't be re-signing in Washington because of the style of play. A style of play which was very similar to the Rangers. Semin wants free flowing hockey. Something we don't do under Torts.

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06-25-2012, 06:51 AM
  #202
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Looks like MIN won't qualify Latendresse. What about him as a relatively cheap, outside-the-box option? He's missed 137 games the last 2 years, but he's only 25 and scored 27 goals in '09-'10 (including 25 in 55 games after the trade from MTL).

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06-25-2012, 07:01 AM
  #203
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The Rangers don't want to dismantle the team. Howson wants the Rangers to dismantle their team for a Nash trade. Howson is trying to leverage another team into making a bad deal. Shero got a deal for Staal in hours. Howson is trying to hit a home run.

Sather will look at free agency. Schultz. Parise. Smyth. Slats and Smyth are close. Banff,Alberta ties. Sather is close friends with the Smyth family. The father and mother. The Rangers were interested in Smyth at the trading deadline. Smyth was a good player in the first half of 11-12. Renney played him too much. Lockout shortened season in 12-13. Monitor Smyth's TOI. Smyth could be a good player for them. 1 year deal. Not more than 1 year with 35 plus as part of the current CBA. All of those players are Newport Sports clients.

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06-25-2012, 07:49 AM
  #204
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There is also Wisconsin defenseman Justin Schultz, who becomes a free agent Monday morning. He would be another big addition without any subtraction besides money, the sort Sather and the Rangers can afford.

The big trade splash didn't happen here this weekend. Nash is still a disgruntled Blue Jacket because Sather wouldn't include Chris Kreider, Derek Stepan or Ryan McDonagh in any trade talks. Ditto Ryan, who would cost less but still too much at this point.
Agreed.

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But this is not a team with glaring holes anymore and Sather -- with a big assist from the likes of Gordie Clark, Jeff Gorton and coach John Tortorella, among others -- can take credit for how the Rangers have developed over the last three years.

His best moves have been not making too many. If the Rangers come away with only a couple of depth additions this summer, then it's on Kreider, Stepan, Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan, to name a few, to either continue their fine starts (Kreider), improve on some good play (Stepan/Callahan) or return with a vengeance to be better (Dubinsky).

It took Sather nearly a decade running the Rangers to realize there are no quick fixes. Now that his team has gotten closer to the top, it may be time to remember that maxim once more.
Agreed.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/column...deal-1.3801169

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06-25-2012, 07:53 AM
  #205
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This roster, has presently constituted, is not winning a Stanley Cup, it needs some reinforcements. The odds are that not all of the younger players will take the next step up in their development, some may get hurt, some will take a step back. With Gaborik out until who knows when, scoring goals is more of an issue.

With Nash, yes the cap hit is a killer, but getting out of that mess will probably give him a jumpstart, gives him a new lease on life, a chance to start over. The cost of acquiring him, when you're dealing with a whack job, gets a little dicey. No, I don't give up the farm for him (especially with that contract), if Howson does come back to earth with his demands, I think something can get worked out and Nash would be a positive acquisition. I would not be worried about chemistry if Nash is acquired, he'd be just happy to get away from Columbus. That CBJ roster is currently no where near a playoff spot and are in a dire need to rebuild. Howson knows he can't make a bad trade, has to show the Blue Jackets are heading in the right direction or else he knows he gets fired. Keeping a very disgruntled employee does not help in going in the right direction.

With Ryan, the cost for him would be more because the cap hit is less than Nash, he's younger, Anaheim doesn't HAVE to trade him right now, with their current roster, they are good enough to make the playoffs, not a cup contender, but playoff caliber. No, I don't see Anaheim play much, but on paper, they are not that bad. I don't know what Ryan is like in the dressing room to know if acquiring him would upset anything, I'd think their current room would get him to buy in to what they have. I'd pay more for him than Nash, but still it has to make sense.

If Parise would only sign with the Rangers because Sather gives him the most money, I don't want him. The Rangers have gone that route before and it's almost always blown up in their faces.

Beyond Parise, Suter, Schultz (amateur free agent) maybe Whitney, there's not much out there worth spending good money on. The odds of getting Parise or Suter are slim anyway, Whitney the more gettable player. I wouldn't be too aggressive in NHL free agency. Until trade prices come down the best route may be patience, but with the free agent crop is better next year, (but most of the would be available players then will either re-sign with their current team or re-sign with the team they get traded to), meaning you may have to be a little more proactive, see who else may be available (not just Nash or Ryan).

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06-25-2012, 08:28 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Looks like MIN won't qualify Latendresse. What about him as a relatively cheap, outside-the-box option? He's missed 137 games the last 2 years, but he's only 25 and scored 27 goals in '09-'10 (including 25 in 55 games after the trade from MTL).
if he actually came here ready to play he'd be an 'interesting' choice to say the least. if he's healthy he's an easy 35 goal scorer... but that's a big if... if the price was right i'd def consider him.

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06-25-2012, 08:51 AM
  #207
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I highly doubt Semin comes to NYR. If I remember correctly Semin & his agent announced they wouldn't be re-signing in Washington because of the style of play. A style of play which was very similar to the Rangers. Semin wants free flowing hockey. Something we don't do under Torts.
and that is 100% based on the personel he has had to work with.

We do not possess the telented players neded ot play a more free flowing game and as such, Torts has coached to the teams strenghts.

Determination, board work, hustly and defensive awareness.

Adding in a bit more talent will allow Torts to open up the game for the forwards a bit more.

As long as the forwards are responsible about cloing the games and back checking, there's always room to create. Unfortunately the guys that can create have no real finishers outside of Gaborik.

I'm hoping that Kreider and Hagelin learn to finish and that Dubinsky re-discoveres his finishing ability.

Getting another pure goal scorer in a guy like Semin WILL help.

Is he the final piece to the puzzle, no. But you add a Semin and a guy like Schultz to this roster, and that's a very VERY good off-season

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06-25-2012, 09:04 AM
  #208
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There is a big diffrence between breaking up the core and filling some glaring holes on the roster, which we do have BTW (look at our PP. Look at how we struggle to get anything going offensively at times).

NJD would not have made the SCF's with Adam Larsson in a key role. They basically gave up nothing and got Marek Zidlicky. Marek Zidlicky was perfrect for their needs. He could log a ton of ice time. He helped their PP. And so forth.

LAK won the cup because they had depth in May that they did not even remotely have in October.

We have a great farm. Hence it might be an option for us to improve alot while just moving one or two roster players. Free agency is certainly also an option.

But lets be honest here. If Crosby is back in Pittsburg, other teams in the East have improved, we might not be a top 3-4 contender with what we have now. Or we would be. Nobody knows. But, one great pickup, if Slats could pull of a steal like NJD did with Zidlicky -- that could very well be the diffrence between struggling to get home ice and winning the Cup.

I don't like the talk about quick fix. We don't need a fix. Toronto do. Their are no quick fixes for Toronto, NYI and so forth. We need to get over the top.

There is no shortages of examples through out the history of the NHL were one NHL team has picked up 1 or 2 players, in the 12-16 months leading up to the cup, which turned that team into a SC winner. On the countryary, that's almost an absolute rule. Hence I think its a bit off to talk about quick fixes at all, when its a fact that basically every single team ever having won a cup aquired a player or two in the 12-16 months leading up to the Cup that played a key role on their team.

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06-25-2012, 09:13 AM
  #209
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Bravo!!! Additionally, by staying the course you will force the price of Ryan and Nash to come down thus making a trade that much easier (costing less).

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06-25-2012, 09:17 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There is a big diffrence between breaking up the core and filling some glaring holes on the roster, which we do have BTW (look at our PP. Look at how we struggle to get anything going offensively at times).

NJD would not have made the SCF's with Adam Larsson in a key role. They basically gave up nothing and got Marek Zidlicky. Marek Zidlicky was perfrect for their needs. He could log a ton of ice time. He helped their PP. And so forth.

LAK won the cup because they had depth in May that they did not even remotely have in October.

We have a great farm. Hence it might be an option for us to improve alot while just moving one or two roster players. Free agency is certainly also an option.

But lets be honest here. If Crosby is back in Pittsburg, other teams in the East have improved, we might not be a top 3-4 contender with what we have now. Or we would be. Nobody knows. But, one great pickup, if Slats could pull of a steal like NJD did with Zidlicky -- that could very well be the diffrence between struggling to get home ice and winning the Cup.

I don't like the talk about quick fix. We don't need a fix. Toronto do. Their are no quick fixes for Toronto, NYI and so forth. We need to get over the top.

There is no shortages of examples through out the history of the NHL were one NHL team has picked up 1 or 2 players, in the 12-16 months leading up to the cup, which turned that team into a SC winner. On the countryary, that's almost an absolute rule. Hence I think its a bit off to talk about quick fixes at all, when its a fact that basically every single team ever having won a cup aquired a player or two in the 12-16 months leading up to the Cup that played a key role on their team.
I agree with this as well ... that is why we are being prudent by stayng the course and no caving into Howson's demands. Let things play out, when these GM's see the markets open up ... they will have to do their due diligence call to us ... and they will.

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06-25-2012, 09:18 AM
  #211
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Bravo!!! Additionally, by staying the course you will force the price of Ryan and Nash to come down thus making a trade that much easier (costing less).
You're not lowering the price on Ryan unless things turn really ugly there.

Anaheim doesn't have to move him because if Murray stops putting him on the block he'd be happy again. They're not forced to move him.

I think a very good offer might get it done (as opposed to an overpayment) but we still need to convince them to deal him. Worse case they hold on to him and he's frustrated.

I hope we do get him but staying the course won't lower the price unless it turns ugly.

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06-25-2012, 09:25 AM
  #212
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Our need is quite clear: we need someone to hire the Gauthier/Gainey combo.

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06-25-2012, 09:26 AM
  #213
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If we somehow land Shultz, I say we immediately talk to Anaheim about a Ryan trade. Since the Ducks are obviously looking for defense, the discussion starts with Staal or Girardi. Who do you give up first?
Neither because NOBODY CAN STEP UP AND TAKE THEIR MINUTES.

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06-25-2012, 09:28 AM
  #214
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Looks like MIN won't qualify Latendresse. What about him as a relatively cheap, outside-the-box option? He's missed 137 games the last 2 years, but he's only 25 and scored 27 goals in '09-'10 (including 25 in 55 games after the trade from MTL).
That's a move I can get behind. Upside and versatility at a bargain price. Would slot in nicely on a 3rd line with Artie and Callahan, but also has the skill to step up and skate with Richie and Gaborik.

Go the Fedotenko route. Give him an invite to camp and let him earn a contract.

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06-25-2012, 09:31 AM
  #215
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You're not lowering the price on Ryan unless things turn really ugly there.

Anaheim doesn't have to move him because if Murray stops putting him on the block he'd be happy again. They're not forced to move him.

I think a very good offer might get it done (as opposed to an overpayment) but we still need to convince them to deal him. Worse case they hold on to him and he's frustrated.

I hope we do get him but staying the course won't lower the price unless it turns ugly.
His comments make me believe they might turn a bit nasty. Obviously there is a ton of tension there, and there there is smoke ... there is fire. A lot of this falls on Murray and his constant of throwing him out there to reel him back in. I understand that from a GM POV you always want to improve and think about the future, but you also should do things more quietly.

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06-25-2012, 09:34 AM
  #216
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Derek Stepan
Brandon Dubinsky
Christian Thomas (8.0C)
2013' 2nd round pick


Bobby Ryan
-------
Trade Rupp for a 6th round pick.
Trade Brian Boyle for a 3rd round pick.
-------
Olli Jokinen: 2 years 7.5m (3.5 cap hit)
Zenon Konopka 2 years 3m (1.5 cap hit)
Andrei Kostitsyn 2 years 5.5m (2.75m cap hit)
Sign Jordin Tootoo 3 years 3.5 (1.1m cap hit)
-------
Michael Del Zotto 4 years 12m (3m cap hit)
Martin Biron 2 years 3m (1.5m cap hit)
Ruslan Fedotenko 1 year 1m
Steve Eminger 1 year 850k
Stu Bickel 1 year 850k


Chris Kreider - Brad Richards - Marian Gaborik
Ryan Callahan - Olli Jokinen - Bobby Ryan (Ryan Callahan goes from LW to RW)
Carl Hagelin - Artem Anisimov - Andrei Kostitsyn
Jordin Tootoo - Zenon Konopka - Ruslan Fedotenko
Stu Bickel

Ryan McDonagh - Dan Girardi
Marc Staal - Michael Del Zotto
Michael Sauer - Tim Erixon
Steve Eminger
Stu Bickel

Henrik Lundqvist
Martin Biron

** have no idea of the cap in here but I think it's over can one one check I'm too tired.


Last edited by Tony D63: 06-25-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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06-25-2012, 09:36 AM
  #217
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I do not want to deal Stepan ... I would move Hags before Stepan.

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06-25-2012, 09:42 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
His comments make me believe they might turn a bit nasty. Obviously there is a ton of tension there, and there there is smoke ... there is fire. A lot of this falls on Murray and his constant of throwing him out there to reel him back in. I understand that from a GM POV you always want to improve and think about the future, but you also should do things more quietly.
That's true but at the same time you have realize it's all soeculatives and what-ifs.

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I do not want to deal Stepan ... I would move Hags before Stepan.
Obviously we'd all want to move Hags before Stepan but I don't know if Murray gives a **** about what we want

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06-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #219
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I do not want to deal Stepan ... I would move Hags before Stepan.
No move Steps no Bobby Ryan, simple as that. The NHL is a game of risks, trade Stepan sign a FA. Would hate to see Steps to go.

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06-25-2012, 09:49 AM
  #220
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I do not want to deal Stepan ... I would move Hags before Stepan.
I agree. I like our top 3 centers. Dubi can swap w/ Anisimov if we lose him, but nobody on the team as it currently stands can replace Stepan on the 2nd. Only way I'd be content with moving derek is if we can get another center that can handle that position involved-- hags is a tough move, but i'd accept it because we'd more than likely be swapping a winger for a winger and our top two lines have competent centers to work with.

to be honest the more time passes the more content i would be without a big name in the offseason. latendresse would be great if he's of good value/short deal. guy has something to prove to himself... but being that injury prone he might not fit in this team (still.. likely cheap).

basically as it sounds our only two major options are nash and ryan... both asking an arm and a leg-- though neither happy in their organization. i think ryan is more likely to be moved because of the cap situation over there, but nash is not happy by any means. either we get them at our offer or we back off and get some 20 goal guys.

jagr would be interesting, but i don't think he would want back in this organization.

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06-25-2012, 09:51 AM
  #221
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I might stop being a fan of this team if Olli Jokinen ever puts on a Ranger sweater again.

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06-25-2012, 09:51 AM
  #222
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Would they take Anisimov?

I rather trade him. It's easier to replace a 3rd line center over a 2nd line center.


Anisimov+Dubinsky+Thomas+1st = Ryan

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06-25-2012, 09:52 AM
  #223
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This Nash thing is really getting out of control. Howson is becoming a bigger and bigger joke with each passing milestone.

First we absolutely had to trade for Nash at the deadline, otherwise we'd be screwed in the playoffs and the high-scoring juggernauts from Pittsburgh and Philly would run over us.

Then we absolutely had to trade for him at the draft because Parise was off the table and there's no other option available to us through free agency.

Now supposedly the demand is going to sky rocket once the top-FA's are gone. With Parise in Pittsburgh and Ryan in Philly, we'll have to give up the farm for Nash or we'll be screwed!

Howson can keep waiting. At the end of it all, he'll just be left with a really pissed off Rick Nash that may or may not come to training camp.

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06-25-2012, 09:54 AM
  #224
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Looks like MIN won't qualify Latendresse. What about him as a relatively cheap, outside-the-box option? He's missed 137 games the last 2 years, but he's only 25 and scored 27 goals in '09-'10 (including 25 in 55 games after the trade from MTL).
http://www.twincities.com/ci_20924926/xxxxxxxxxxxx

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PITTSBURGH -- The Wild won't make qualifying offers to restricted free agents Guillaume Latendresse and Nick Johnson before the Monday deadline, general manager Chuck Fletcher said on Saturday, June 23. But especially in the case of Latendresse, Fletcher expects a deal will get done.

The forward has played just 27 games the past two seasons because of concussions, and is able to sign for less than his $2.5 million salary in 2011-12 because he spent more than 100 days on injured reserve last season. Fletcher said on Saturday he has talked "10 times" with Pat Brisson, Latendresse's agent, and though the talks could go toward the start of free agency on July 1, Fletcher is optimistic the Wild will get a deal done.

The team is particularly interested in rolling the dice on Latendresse's health because of his goal-scoring potential; he scored 27 goals in 2009-10, bagging 25 of them for Minnesota after a midseason trade with Montreal. The 25-year-old tweeted last week that he has been cleared by doctors for next season, and the Wild are interested in signing him to an incentive-laden deal with a lower base salary than he'd normally receive.

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06-25-2012, 09:55 AM
  #225
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I might stop being a fan of this team if Olli Jokinen ever puts on a Ranger sweater again.
Why because he missed a SO goal in the last game of the season decide if we go into the playoffs? Not every one is going to score a goal every time in clutch situations.. Jokinen came up with a huge season in CGY would be even better with Bobby Ryan and Ryan Callahan. I would want him here.

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