HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Common theme of the draft is SIZE down the middle. What is the future of our C's?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-24-2012, 11:19 PM
  #51
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I don't doubt Ellers upside. But if he does break out, I do think that means he ends up on the wing. I'd like to see him play with DD to be honest, as DD did wonders for Pacioretty...
Well this I agree with. Eller reminds me of Plekanec a little in that he has potential a playmaker but not a natural, slow down the game for the perfect pass type, and Pleks has always been comfortable with someone he can pass back and forth to.

Eller looked most comfortable next to AK after all and showed some chemistry with Leblanc, guys who are above average passers themselves. I said it before I think Eller-Desharnais has poor mans St. Louis-Lecavalier potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Though I see DD as a pure centerman, a guy who can make his linemates better. Ellers size/skill package translates better to the wing IMO.
Well for me, Eller has a few big advantages as C over Desharnais. He's a better skater, much stronger on the puck and is a much better defensive player. I'd rather have him skate through the neutral zone with the puck, plus he's better at protecting it. As awful as Gomez is, only Eller was able to properly replace his neutral zone puck carrying last year.

While the things Eller is poor at for a center (faceoffs and decision making in front of the net) tend to improve with age.

I think you need a mix regardless of position, playmaking wingers are not a bad thing. I think Desharnais' game would translate fine to the wing since his playmaking is more about vision than on the puck skills.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:21 PM
  #52
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post


Ha, just posted something similar above.

Though I see DD as a pure centerman, a guy who can make his linemates better. Ellers size/skill package translates better to the wing IMO.
Have you seen Eller play wing? He's far less effective. I agree about DD being a pure centerman...I don't think he'd be good on the wing either. They both need to get better in the faceoff circle anyways...

But the point about DD making his linemates better. Are you telling me Max and Cole's good seasons are a product of DD?

hockeyfan2k11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:23 PM
  #53
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well this I agree with. Eller reminds me of Plekanec a little in that he has potential a playmaker but not a natural, slow down the game for the perfect pass type, and Pleks has always been comfortable with someone he can pass back and forth to.

Eller looked most comfortable next to AK after all and showed some chemistry with Leblanc, guys who are above average passers themselves. I said it before I think Eller-Desharnais has poor mans St. Louis-Lecavalier potential.
I also think DD would help get Eller over the hump much like he helped with Pacioretty, and agree these two could have some magic together, though think it would come with Eller on the wing and DD at center. I think it'd be tough to move DD to the wing at this point, guy was just out top centerman last year.

As for the future, I could see:

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Eller-Desharnais-Collberg
Bozon-Bournival-Leblanc
Schultz-White-Conboy

hogtownhabsfan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:25 PM
  #54
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Have you seen Eller play wing? He's far less effective. I agree about DD being a pure centerman...I don't think he'd be good on the wing either. They both need to get better in the faceoff circle anyways...

But the point about DD making his linemates better. Are you telling me Max and Cole's good seasons are a product of DD?
Definitely not giving him full credit, but he certainly did help.

I'm a DD believer and think the best is yet to come. There is some serious PPG potential in that little dude...

hogtownhabsfan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:39 PM
  #55
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
He is a long way from 60 points.
How far away was Plekanec at his age?

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:43 PM
  #56
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
How far away was Plekanec at his age?
Pleks has always been responsible defensively. I know that doesn't show up on the stat sheet so it's for some reason irrelevant.

pleks gets so much hate on here, I simply don't understand it.

hockeyfan2k11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:48 PM
  #57
Patccmoi
Registered User
 
Patccmoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,099
vCash: 500
I do have a bit of a hard time seeing either DD or Eller switch position honestly. I think that if all goes well for both of them, in a good team I would see Eller as a 2nd center that can put up some offense and be assigned against the opposing team's top line, while DD could be assigned as the center of an offensive 3rd line, and I don't mean that to say that DD is a 3rd line center the way most people think about it.

I think that DD should have the same role as Brière in Philly had behind Richards and Carter. Basically being sheltered and put in offensive situations to create a mismatch where his line will be much better offensively than the other in front, and used on the PP. I think that DD is going to be a great point producer, but that he will need to be sheltered from the opposing top line, I think he will get killed against elite players that are 6'2-6'4, but that doesn't mean he can't be a very valuable part of a team and actually put up a lot of points if used properly.

And I think that Galchenyuk is meant to become our #1 center. It kinda leaves Pleky out, but honestly I would be in no rush to do anything, especially since I consider Plekanec to actually be a very good center too, at this point definitely our best all-around, but he needs wingers that can play his style, which is a transition game, Plek is amazing on the rush and in 2v1 situations, and he's good at creating these opportunities, but he needs players that can keep up in speed and have the finishing touch required.

Galchenyuk won't be our first line center before 3 years likely. Eller might need time to be our #2 too, and DD while I believe in him has to put up numbers for 2-3 years in the league to be sure he can fill the bill.

Basically, let things play out. It's a luxury to have too many good centers, and if they each manage to fill the role they're meant to, then at worse we'll have one good piece of trading material. Any talk about one of them being a bust or not managing to do his role, saying DD is a flash in the pan or that Eller is a 3rd line winger is just ridiculous at this point though. At Eller's age, Plek and DD were not even in the NHL. And there's no reason to think that DD cannot repeat what he just did, considering it was his FIRST full year, it's not like he had 3 horrible years and suddenly had a good one. Just be patient...

Patccmoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:49 PM
  #58
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Have you seen Eller play wing? He's far less effective. I agree about DD being a pure centerman...I don't think he'd be good on the wing either. They both need to get better in the faceoff circle anyways...

But the point about DD making his linemates better. Are you telling me Max and Cole's good seasons are a product of DD?
No, but I trust Patches and Cole's opinion of the guy more than yours.

One Man Rock Band is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 11:55 PM
  #59
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Pleks has always been responsible defensively. I know that doesn't show up on the stat sheet so it's for some reason irrelevant.

pleks gets so much hate on here, I simply don't understand it.
I'm not hating on him. TPlex is 6 years older than Eller, and 6 years ago...he was pretty well doing the same thing that Eller was offense wise.

I'm telling that poster that you should be patient with Eller, as I think he's got yet more to bring to the table.

Remember when Pacioretty was "a career 3rd liner"? I do.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 12:00 AM
  #60
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
No, but I trust Patches and Cole's opinion of the guy more than yours.
Right... I'm not sure what you expected them to say. No one's denying that he's a good player. He just isn't a viable 1st line centerman. Period.

hockeyfan2k11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 12:00 AM
  #61
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Pleks has always been responsible defensively. I know that doesn't show up on the stat sheet so it's for some reason irrelevant.

pleks gets so much hate on here, I simply don't understand it.
Plekanec is still the most valuable center on this team by a considerable margin. He's not untouchable but until Gally/Eller/DD show otherwise if Plekanec is moved soon the plan is to tank.

But for all the people complaining about Eller for his stats, there was a time when Plekanec was a fringe prospect. At 22 Plekanec was considered a 3rd liner too, and Desharnais was an unknown.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 12:01 AM
  #62
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
I'm not hating on him. TPlex is 6 years older than Eller, and 6 years ago...he was pretty well doing the same thing that Eller was offense wise.

I'm telling that poster that you should be patient with Eller, as I think he's got yet more to bring to the table.

Remember when Pacioretty was "a career 3rd liner"? I do.
I had a brain fart, sorry.

hockeyfan2k11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 12:04 AM
  #63
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Right... I'm not sure what you expected them to say. No one's denying that he's a good player. He just isn't a viable 1st line centerman. Period.
Well with Galchenyuk in the fold he won't have to be. He definitely looks like a top notch 2nd line offensive center though!

hogtownhabsfan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 12:05 AM
  #64
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I had a brain fart, sorry.
Pas d'probleme.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 12:08 AM
  #65
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Well with Galchenyuk in the fold he won't have to be. He definitely looks like a top notch 2nd line offensive center though!
I really want to see what he can bring to the wing. He and Galchenyuk are very smart players. In a couple years it might make an interesting combo.

In any case, this is a good problem to have. What to do with a 60 point player who seems poised to do more, a mon avis, anyways. Oh no, whatever shall we do!?

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 12:17 AM
  #66
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
I really want to see what he can bring to the wing. He and Galchenyuk are very smart players. In a couple years it might make an interesting combo.

In any case, this is a good problem to have. What to do with a 60 point player who seems poised to do more, a mon avis, anyways. Oh no, whatever shall we do!?
If having too many centers is the biggest problem we have, the organization is in far better shape than I realized.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 04:43 AM
  #67
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Right... I'm not sure what you expected them to say. No one's denying that he's a good player. He just isn't a viable 1st line centerman. Period.


Yeah the dude who was 20th in the league in scoring, among centers, in his first full NHL season, isn't a viable #1 center. 55th among all forwards.

Right.

PS. He scored more than Rick Nash, Daniel Alfredsson, Bobby Ryan, Mikhail Grabovski and oh yeah, super smurf centre Ryan Getzlaf.

By the way, the first time Pacioretty said that was right after he was called up - when Desharnais was still in the minors.

Can't wait for you to tell me he's not a viable #1 center when he gets more experience and becomes a PPG player.

One Man Rock Band is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 05:48 AM
  #68
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,742
vCash: 500
Desharnais' career:

Fifth Leading scorer in Quebec League for two consecutive seasons

Leading Scorer in lone ECHL season

5th leading scorer in second AHL season despite playing only 60 games.

Leading AHL scorer at time of final recall to NHL in 2010-11.

3rd leading Montreal scorer in first full NHL season; Tied for 56th in overall scoring in NHL.

All while playing Center.

HFBoard reaction: Switch him to wing in favor of a guy who had 3 assists in his last 42 games last season.

As is said on the Mastercard commercial: "Priceless".


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 06-25-2012 at 05:54 AM.
Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 08:02 AM
  #69
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post


Yeah the dude who was 20th in the league in scoring, among centers, in his first full NHL season, isn't a viable #1 center. 55th among all forwards.

Right.

PS. He scored more than Rick Nash, Daniel Alfredsson, Bobby Ryan, Mikhail Grabovski and oh yeah, super smurf centre Ryan Getzlaf.

By the way, the first time Pacioretty said that was right after he was called up - when Desharnais was still in the minors.

Can't wait for you to tell me he's not a viable #1 center when he gets more experience and becomes a PPG player.
I guess DD is better than all of those players too, huh?

You don't know the game, it's clear. I'm not going to discuss this with you any further...waste of time.

hockeyfan2k11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 09:18 AM
  #70
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I guess DD is better than all of those players too, huh?

You don't know the game, it's clear. I'm not going to discuss this with you any further...waste of time.
I don't know the game? Right. More like you make asinine statements with no facts to back it up.

When someone debates with you, shows you the facts, and you give up on the debate... guess what that does?

It makes them the winner.

thank you, thank you!

One Man Rock Band is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 09:30 AM
  #71
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 22,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
PS. He scored more than Rick Nash, Daniel Alfredsson, Bobby Ryan, Mikhail Grabovski and oh yeah, super smurf centre Ryan Getzlaf.
He didn't outscore those guys; he got more points. All of those guys (and Plekanec, for that matter, despite far inferior opportunity) scored more goals (in most cases, WAY more goals). If you're talking about points (meaning assists, too), well, that's obviously where the linemate factor (and having legit - meaning relatively independent of who their centre is - 30 goal scorers on both sides) makes a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
By the way, the first time Pacioretty said that was right after he was called up - when Desharnais was still in the minors.
So Desharnais was the best centre Patches played with in the minors? Well, that quote means even less to me now, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Can't wait for you to tell me he's not a viable #1 center when he gets more experience and becomes a PPG player.
Well, as long as they're together, MaxPac and Cole will take DD as high as they can. They like each other, and I'm sure they'll have fun along the way. The flip side of that, though, is I think DD is the limiting factor in just how good that line can be. I know you don't agree,


Last edited by One Man Rock Band: 06-25-2012 at 09:54 AM.
Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 09:35 AM
  #72
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
HFBoard reaction: Switch him to wing in favor of a guy who had 3 assists in his last 42 games last season.
So let me get this straight, it doesn't matter that Eller is as much younger than Desharnais as DD is to Plekanec, because he couldn't turn Ryan White into a sniper on a terrible hockey team it's a good idea to keep the status quo?

The Habs were the 3rd worse team in the league last year. Nobody's position should be untouchable because of personal stats.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #73
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 22,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The Habs were the 3rd worse team in the league last year. Nobody's position should be untouchable because of personal stats.
Or what their relative offensive contribution was to an overall package that failed so miserably, for that matter.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #74
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Or what their relative offensive contribution was to an overall package that failed so miserably, for that matter.
And that's the thing, it's a team sport and if you are going to have one line carry the offense, your offense line better be something like Vancouver or Pittsburgh's first line.

We were the worst team in the east last year. I don't think it's out of the question that players were misused. Hopefully Therrien lets the entire team get a fresh start for better or worse.


Last edited by Et le But: 06-25-2012 at 09:50 AM.
Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2012, 09:53 AM
  #75
Subnordi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 271
vCash: 500
Desharnais did alright when he was on the wing with Gomez and Gionta for a few games, I say our forward lineup goes

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gionta
Desharnais-Plekanec-Cole
Bourqe-Eller-Leblanc
Staubitz-White-Someone scary

Subnordi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.