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Offseason Discussion VII: Never Go Full-Rossi (Contract chart/FA list in Post #1)

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06-25-2012, 09:24 AM
  #76
Captain Hook
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Suter is primarily a defensive guy and still scored 46 points last year and did that on a low scoring Nashville team. He really passes the eye test when you watch him. Very impressive player. He isn't nearly as soft as Martin and while his shot isn't great it's still far better than a guy like Martin.

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06-25-2012, 09:26 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
Can somebody sell me on Suter? Because from what I'm reading, IDK. Not physical, not a great shot, meh point production. Great puck mover who does little things. Sounds like P-Mart part deux. Is he really what we need, let alone at a massive price tag?
He is physical...this isn't the first time I've heard someone say he's not physical, and I really have zero idea where that comes from. He just not Shea Weber physical where he runs around trying to make heads roll, but he's incredibly hard to play against. He has a good shot (again, not Weber's), and has put up 40 points a few times, with some potential to put up more on a more offensive team.

Gotta watch the guy. He's the better defenseman in the defensive zone on that team.

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06-25-2012, 09:31 AM
  #78
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Gotta watch the guy. He's the better defenseman in the defensive zone on that team.
Couldnt agree more. Suter has helped make Weber what he is

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06-25-2012, 09:32 AM
  #79
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People need to realize a big aspect of Suter's success is the system he plays within and his D partner (it goes both ways - neither guy would be as good without the other). That's why I don't see him as a guy who if he went to Detroit for example, as one who would "take the reigns".

Suter is a more well-rounded, more physical version of Martin. Offensively he's much better, defensively he's not as easy push around. So there's no question he'd be an upgrade but he's not going to be out there dictating play IMO the way Letang does. He would be a good partner for Letang because he could take the role of being the conservative guy, letting Letang take some chances in transition, etc. And he'd do it well / much better than Martin could.

Is he worth $7M+? If you can only have one Parise is the better place to spend that money because he would make the team better defensively (PK, transition) as well as offensively (85-90 point guy playing with Sid).

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06-25-2012, 09:35 AM
  #80
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I don't doubt at all that he's an excellent player, but is he really worth hat huge money? It sounds like it will take at least a $7.0 cap hit. Name one D who makes that much that isn't an elite PP QB.

I just feel like if we give this guy enormous money, people might be underwhelmed with what he brings.

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06-25-2012, 09:35 AM
  #81
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A lot of people believe Suter is better than Weber. I don't happen to be one of those people, but the good news is the proof will be in the pudding soon when they split up as a tandem.

I'd take either guy, for sure, but Weber is the better fit (more pressing need) for us imo...because the lack of physicality is the biggest weakness of our defense imo.

Obviously, Shero is looking for a top-pairing blueliner. Suter fits next to Letang, for sure. But imo so does Weber, because Letang COULD be moved to the left side and not really skip a beat. OR, we could put them each on one of the top two pairings.

I don't know if any of Shero's discussions with Poile over the weekend involved Weber, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. With rumors that Orpik may be available, and rumores that we MAY be dangling Despres...if we try to connect the dots, those are two defensemen Nashville would have to get back in return (one would suspect) in any Weber package.

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06-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #82
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I'm absolutely gun shy about spending big money on another defenseman since we just got burned twice...pretty much. I also think ChiChi brings up a good point in that we really have no idea how the guy is going to do in this system, along with not playing with Shea Weber anymore.

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06-25-2012, 09:38 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinTommy View Post
Parise's signing will be a huge risk on July 1.

I would be really surprised if Zach decides where he will sign during the first day. I expect, at least, the same as Brad Richards. He will wait one day.

Let's say Pens and Wild and Wings will be front-runners and decision won't be made on July 1. If he chooses other than Pens, we're ****ed, cause all other good forward FAs will be signed.

It could be the same scenario like it was with Hossa, we waited, we didn't signed him and we ended up with nothing, cause nothing left.

I just don't think Shero will be patient man. The same as he didn't wait for Jagr.

If you're going for lifetime contract, you have to wait and make the best decision. I would be surprised if the decision is made within couple hours.
If you think these guys wait until July 1st to start thinking about their future you're being naive.

These guys start weighing this options the day their season ends. They read the paper and they see the rumors of who's interested. ZP knows we are interested so he's already envisioning the different scenarios.

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06-25-2012, 09:38 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
I just feel like if we give this guy enormous money, people might be underwhelmed with what he brings.
I think it would be a Staal situation. Half the boards would think him well worth it, half would think him overpaid somewhat. Definitely would not be a Martin situation, even though he'll get more than Martin.

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06-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #85
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I've always thought Nashville plays it fairly aggressive on D. Not a lot of scoring forwards there and rely on the D to chip in offensively a bit more than other clubs. I don't think Suter's being protected in some ultra conservative trapping/defensive style like Martin was in Jersey and maybe Michalek under Tippet.

I also think Weber benefits just as much from Suter. Weber is the guy that will take a few runs at guys, Suter just seems to always be where he's supposed to be. Let's not sell Suter short. He didn't just become good playing with Weber. He was a top 10 pick in one of the great drafts ever in 2003 and was fantastic without Weber in the Olympics.

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06-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
A lot of people believe Suter is better than Weber. I don't happen to be one of those people, but the good news is the proof will be in the pudding soon when they split up as a tandem.

I'd take either guy, for sure, but Weber is the better fit (more pressing need) for us imo...because the lack of physicality is the biggest weakness of our defense imo.

Obviously, Shero is looking for a top-pairing blueliner. Suter fits next to Letang, for sure. But imo so does Weber, because Letang COULD be moved to the left side and not really skip a beat. OR, we could put them each on one of the top two pairings.

I don't know if any of Shero's discussions with Poile over the weekend involved Weber, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. With rumors that Orpik may be available, and rumores that we MAY be dangling Despres...if we try to connect the dots, those are two defensemen Nashville would have to get back in return (one would suspect) in any Weber package.
Did you just get the idea of Shea Weber on the Pens in my head? Why yes you did... *vinegar stroke face*

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06-25-2012, 09:40 AM
  #87
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Parise will continue in NJD and Sutter will go to a western conference teams.

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06-25-2012, 09:41 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by schmidtlesauce View Post
Couldnt agree more. Suter has helped make Weber what he is
But that's always a difficult thing to assess. I mean, Jeff Beukeboom helped make Brian Leetch into a HOF defenseman. They were the perfect tandem. Brian Rafalski was fantastic next to Nicklas Lidstrom, but when Brad Stuart was paired with Lidstrom the following year, Lidstrom had an even better offensive season. Then, with Ian White, he went back to his normal two-way self.

I agree that Ryan Suter has helped Shea Weber become the most dominant defenseman in the NHL today. But the game-changer of the two is Weber.

And yes, I do have a few concerns that Ryan Suter is a better, more expensive Paul Martin. After watching our defense completely unravel, how can we not be concerned?

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06-25-2012, 09:42 AM
  #89
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Also I saw on Puck Daddy this morning Nashville got a new lease with the arena that includes $8M in incentives for the team every year. So it may be less and less likely Nashville lets either guy go, though IMO there is no chance they will let Weber go unless he asks for something absurd / that would hamstring their entire operation... in which case we don't want him either.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...5834--nhl.html

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06-25-2012, 09:42 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
Parise will continue in NJD and Sutter will go to a western conference teams.
Already on the team

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06-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #91
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Nah, I think if we re-sign Sully, he will be Crosby's winger.

_____-Crosby-Sullivan
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Asham-Vitale-Adams
Fascinating . . . Pens have 14.66M in cap space. Move TK and get Sully and Asham for just over 2M combined.

Pens then will have 14.5M in cap space and only a 1LW spot to fill.

Move Martin and sign Parise and Suter to a combined 14.5M per.

The Pens forwards will be set AND they'll have 5M left over for a #4, #5, and #7 defenseman and reserve cap space.

In theory, they could keep Nisky, slot in Despres (or someone like that), and slot Bortuzzo as #7 for a combined 4M tops.

So, what do you all think of this roster:

Parise-Sid-Sully
Kunitz-Geno-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Asham-Vitale-Adams
Jeffrey

Suter-Letang
Orpik-Nisky
Despres(?)-Engo
Bortuzzo

Flower
Vokoun

1M in cap space in reserve.

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06-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #92
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From Mike Prisuta's Twitter @DVEMike

Quote:
Pens GM Ray Shero had this to say today on The DVE Morning Show regarding potential trade for rights of soon-to-be UFAs: "Not gonna happen."
Quote:
Shero on young D pushing for a job after Michalek deal: "The three main guys right now are Simon Despres, Brian Strait and Robert Bortuzzo."
Quote:
Shero on Martin: "If he's back with the Pens next year he's gonna bounce back. I'm not calling teams on Paul Martin, they're calling me."
Interesting about Martin ... and wasn't there a rumor that Despres was available?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain ...

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06-25-2012, 09:44 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
From Mike Prisuta's Twitter @DVEMike







Interesting about Martin ... and wasn't there a rumor that Despres was available?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain ...
Curious that Shero would preface with 'if he's back'. Did he really use those words?

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06-25-2012, 09:45 AM
  #94
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Has anyone else heard anymore about the rumor that the pens organization wants defensemen that can "leave dents in people"? I dont remember who said it originally

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06-25-2012, 09:45 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Nah, I think if we re-sign Sully, he will be Crosby's winger.

_____-Crosby-Sullivan
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Asham-Vitale-Adams
If that bunch of underscores on Crosby's other side turns into Parise, then I have zero problem with Sullivan. Actually I think him being there, so that Dupuis can go on the third line would actually be a very good move. I dig those Malkin and Sutter lines right there.

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06-25-2012, 09:46 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
But that's always a difficult thing to assess. I mean, Jeff Beukeboom helped make Brian Leetch into a HOF defenseman. They were the perfect tandem. Brian Rafalski was fantastic next to Nicklas Lidstrom, but when Brad Stuart was paired with Lidstrom the following year, Lidstrom had an even better offensive season. Then, with Ian White, he went back to his normal two-way self.

I agree that Ryan Suter has helped Shea Weber become the most dominant defenseman in the NHL today. But the game-changer of the two is Weber.

And yes, I do have a few concerns that Ryan Suter is a better, more expensive Paul Martin. After watching our defense completely unravel, how can we not be concerned?
Just two minor differences:

1. Suter takes the body.

2. Suter is a PP QB, with the shot to go with it.

In a way, I think the best way to describe Suter is that he is what a lot of the people here who'd never really watched Paul Martin thought he was when the Pens signed him.

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06-25-2012, 09:46 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by schmidtlesauce View Post
Has anyone else heard anymore about the rumor that the pens organization wants defensemen that can "leave dents in people"? I dont remember who said it originally
I didn't, but I'm not surprised if it's true.

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06-25-2012, 09:46 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Interesting about Martin ... and wasn't there a rumor that Despres was available? .

No just invented crapola by Rossi to generate clicks / internet talk.

I seriously doubt the Penguins have offered Despres to anyone (and this comment by Shero should be an indication of that - that he sees Despres as fighting for a roster spot this fall), and certainly they are not telling Rossi about their available trade assets.

Schmidt: the phrase "he's a denter" was in reference to [the Seymour kid we drafted Saturday - 6'4", 205, plays in OHL right now].

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06-25-2012, 09:47 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
If you think these guys wait until July 1st to start thinking about their future you're being naive.

These guys start weighing this options the day their season ends. They read the paper and they see the rumors of who's interested. ZP knows we are interested so he's already envisioning the different scenarios.
I think they start mapping out their futures once they enter their contract year, to be honest. At least the big ticket guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I've always thought Nashville plays it fairly aggressive on D. Not a lot of scoring forwards there and rely on the D to chip in offensively a bit more than other clubs. I don't think Suter's being protected in some ultra conservative trapping/defensive style like Martin was in Jersey and maybe Michalek under Tippett.

I also think Weber benefits just as much from Suter. Weber is the guy that will take a few runs at guys, Suter just seems to always be where he's supposed to be. Let's not sell Suter short. He didn't just become good playing with Weber. He was a top 10 pick in one of the great drafts ever in 2003 and was fantastic without Weber in the Olympics.
True about the last paragraph, but Nashville's forwards are hugely responsible for their great defensive record. They backcheck as well as any team in the league. They work as hard as any forward group in the NHL. Their centers (Legwand, Fisher, Spaling) often play like a third defensemen.

All of this means that BOTH Suter and Weber are in similar situations as Martin and Michalek...in that they are coming from insulated defensive systems. It's hard to argue against that.

Both SHOULD be fine wherever they wind up, but I feel more confident that Weber's game will translate better than Suter's. Not a knock against Suter. It's more a skill-set thing.

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06-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Curious that Shero would preface with 'if he's back'. Did he really use those words?
Would not surprise me. The rumor has been that Shero doesn't want to move him until he's positive he can acquire another quality D-Man. Sounds like Martin is his fallback if he doesn't get Suter or can't swing a trade for Yandle or another name D that may be put on the market.

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