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The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly!

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06-25-2012, 09:00 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
I highly doubt Semin comes to NYR. If I remember correctly Semin & his agent announced they wouldn't be re-signing in Washington because of the style of play. A style of play which was very similar to the Rangers. Semin wants free flowing hockey. Something we don't do under Torts.

Well..that and the bongo drums.

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06-25-2012, 09:01 AM
  #227
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Would they take Anisimov?

I rather trade him. It's easier to replace a 3rd line center over a 2nd line center.


Anisimov+Dubinsky+Thomas+1st = Ryan
The Ducks fans I've talked to hate that package. They don't want Dubi and only view AA as a 3rd line center. I don't think it's enough anyways but it's not for me to decide.

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06-25-2012, 09:02 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by LundqvistFTW View Post
Why because he missed a SO goal in the last game of the season decide if we go into the playoffs? Not every one is going to score a goal every time in clutch situations.. Jokinen came up with a huge season in CGY would be even better with Bobby Ryan and Ryan Callahan. I would want him here.
What kind of an idiot judges a player based on one singular moment in his career? I would be disgusted to see Jokinen on this team because he's one of the most inefficient players in the league. Because hes a shoot first center and you want him playing with a two shoot first wingers.
Because the only time he's ever had "big" seasons has been on garbage teams with coaches who allow him to waste numerous opportunities every game with his nonstop shotwhoring.

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06-25-2012, 09:03 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by LundqvistFTW View Post
Why because he missed a SO goal in the last game of the season decide if we go into the playoffs? Not every one is going to score a goal every time in clutch situations.. Jokinen came up with a huge season in CGY would be even better with Bobby Ryan and Ryan Callahan. I would want him here.
given the Rangers are pretty strong up the pipe with Richards and Stepan and then even Boyle, Ansiimov, Dubinsky I doubt they go for a C. Jokinen had a good yr but for some reason I question his heart in a big game...........I am fine with signing a 4th line C or a guy that can play 3rd so Gaustad ideally then McClement, Konopka types.

They need a wing so go for Doan and then Whitney July 1st for a top 6 stop gap. It allows them to keep the kids and grow

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06-25-2012, 09:05 AM
  #230
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The Ducks fans I've talked to hate that package. They don't want Dubi and only view AA as a 3rd line center. I don't think it's enough anyways but it's not for me to decide.
sign Schultz then offer Del Zotto( replaces Visnovsky ) Anismov ( good 2/3rd line young C ) , prospect ideally Thomas, 1st rounder next yr

that is 2 first and 2 seconds for Ryan which is pretty fair value I think

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06-25-2012, 09:07 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
What kind of an idiot judges a player based on one singular moment in his career? I would be disgusted to see Jokinen on this team because he's one of the most inefficient players in the league. Because hes a shoot first center and you want him playing with a two shoot first wingers.
Because the only time he's ever had "big" seasons has been on garbage teams with coaches who allow him to waste numerous opportunities every game with his nonstop shotwhoring.
haha sorry about that kinda figured everyone was still but hurt over the SO. :laugh:

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06-25-2012, 09:11 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
sign Schultz then offer Del Zotto( replaces Visnovsky ) Anismov ( good 2/3rd line young C ) , prospect ideally Thomas, 1st rounder next yr

that is 2 first and 2 seconds for Ryan which is pretty fair value I think
If we can't land that BIG player (Nash/Ryan/Parise), and I don't think we should be dismantling the team to do so, I try to get Doan, as he's the one player that would/can contribute and seemlessly slide into our team culture.

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06-25-2012, 09:20 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
sign Schultz then offer Del Zotto( replaces Visnovsky ) Anismov ( good 2/3rd line young C ) , prospect ideally Thomas, 1st rounder next yr

that is 2 first and 2 seconds for Ryan which is pretty fair value I think
I think it'd be funny if we trade MDZ and Steps for one of these guys like you want and then MDZ blossoms into a Zubov caliber player and Steps blossoms into a 70 point center and then we don't win a cup with Nash or Ryan. Once you make the trade for Nash or Ryan, you may as well trade everyone and make it a "win now and rebuild the year after" team. It'd be fun for a year, but it'd suck for the next 20. That's something most of you posters on here do not understand and haven't lived through. I've been a Ranger fan for 47 years and not since 1992 have we had a roster that was this young and had so much potential. Don't give me the "we traded it all for 1994" to justify what you want. After 1994 we were irrelevant until we made some huge free agent signings in a capless NHL that got us to the ECF in 1997. You probably don't remember what happened after that. 1994 was also a desperate time. We hadn't won in 54 years and it was do or die. Now is a much different scenario where we can afford to wait and let the time mesh. We are a 1 piece away with out current roster. That means if you trade 2 or 3 of our pieces for one, you now have 2 holes. Steps and MDZ are huge shoes to fill. Offer contracts to Smyth, Jagr, and Whitney. That is pretty much all this team needs outside of guys to fill the 4th line. I wouldn't be opposed to signing Parise.. just not for 8 mil a year... But newsflash to Rangers fans out there.. Signing ex devils has NEVER worked for us.

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06-25-2012, 09:21 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by LundqvistFTW View Post
No move Steps no Bobby Ryan, simple as that. The NHL is a game of risks, trade Stepan sign a FA. Would hate to see Steps to go.
What FA 2nd line center is available? How much will he cost?

If the answer to the 1st question isn't "none", the answer to the 2nd question is invariably "too much".

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06-25-2012, 09:26 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
and that is 100% based on the personel he has had to work with.

We do not possess the telented players neded ot play a more free flowing game and as such, Torts has coached to the teams strenghts.

Determination, board work, hustly and defensive awareness.

Adding in a bit more talent will allow Torts to open up the game for the forwards a bit more.

As long as the forwards are responsible about cloing the games and back checking, there's always room to create. Unfortunately the guys that can create have no real finishers outside of Gaborik.

I'm hoping that Kreider and Hagelin learn to finish and that Dubinsky re-discoveres his finishing ability.

Getting another pure goal scorer in a guy like Semin WILL help.

Is he the final piece to the puzzle, no. But you add a Semin and a guy like Schultz to this roster, and that's a very VERY good off-season

I agree with you 100% but the point I was making is that Semin doesn't want to play a style that Torts has been using. What makes you think Torts will change everything for Semin? I highly doubt it & I highly doubt Semin wants anything to do with Torts. I could see him in the Western Conf or with the Penguins.

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06-25-2012, 09:34 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
You're not lowering the price on Ryan unless things turn really ugly there.

Anaheim doesn't have to move him because if Murray stops putting him on the block he'd be happy again. They're not forced to move him.

I think a very good offer might get it done (as opposed to an overpayment) but we still need to convince them to deal him. Worse case they hold on to him and he's frustrated.

I hope we do get him but staying the course won't lower the price unless it turns ugly.
I agree for sure, Ryan is in a diffrent position than Nash.

Columbus has only two options regarding Nash: 1. convince him to stay, 2. take the highest offer. There is no option "3. deal him if you get a good enough offer or keep him"...

The reasoning for Anaheim to deal Bobby Ryan is simple. They got 3 studs in their prime. They got a couple of other pieces. Nothing really in the pipeline. Not necessary a ton of capspace along with an ability to attract UFA's. AND, they are missing the PO's. This is not a building team per say, but a peaking team almost that simply is not good enough. Its extremely apparant that they at least need to explore if they can restructure their team. And dealing Bobby Ryan is the obvious option then. But that does not include dealing Bobby Ryan for the sake of dealing him. Any fool could see that dealing Bobby Ryan for Dubinsky, C Thomas and a 1st would do extremely little for them. It would not be enough. But if they would get Dubinsky and Stepan -- it might be a diffrent story. I think ANA is a bit of a tougher trading partner in that sense.

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06-25-2012, 09:35 AM
  #237
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Why are we proposing packages for Ryan (or Nash) that are significantly more that Carolina gave for Staal?

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06-25-2012, 09:36 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
What kind of an idiot judges a player based on one singular moment in his career? I would be disgusted to see Jokinen on this team because he's one of the most inefficient players in the league. Because hes a shoot first center and you want him playing with a two shoot first wingers.
Because the only time he's ever had "big" seasons has been on garbage teams with coaches who allow him to waste numerous opportunities every game with his nonstop shotwhoring.
A man of principle!

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06-25-2012, 09:38 AM
  #239
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Why are we proposing packages for Ryan (or Nash) that are significantly more that Carolina gave for Staal?
Cuz everyone knows Staal is just a 3rd line center jeez

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06-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #240
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Why are we proposing packages for Ryan (or Nash) that are significantly more that Carolina gave for Staal?
Completely different scenarios. Staal was a UFA after this year and they tried to get as much value as possible. Nash and Ryan ate locked up long term and Anaheim doesn't A) have to trade Ryan or B) have to trade him to us so in that regard we need a convincing package or good sales job by Sather. I agree with Nadh we should really be playing hardball with and force Howson's hand.

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06-25-2012, 09:40 AM
  #241
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Quote:
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Why are we proposing packages for Ryan (or Nash) that are significantly more that Carolina gave for Staal?
Cause Ryan is a much better player.

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06-25-2012, 09:40 AM
  #242
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A man of principle!
Not gonna lie.. I wish we had a guy on this roster that would take a f***ing shot when they have an open shot instead of pass it to a guy who doesn't have a clean shot opportunity.
How many shots did the Rangers pass up on in the playoffs? It seemed like they refused to pull the trigger on about 6 a game where either they waited too long or just passed it into traffic.

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06-25-2012, 09:44 AM
  #243
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Completely different scenarios. Staal was a UFA after this year and they tried to get as much value as possible. Nash and Ryan ate locked up long term and Anaheim doesn't A) have to trade Ryan or B) have to trade him to us so in that regard we need a convincing package or good sales job by Sather. I agree with Nadh we should really be playing hardball with and force Howson's hand.
So trade one 50 point center (Stepan) and a 40 point defenseman(MDZ) who are both 22 and can only get better plus a 1st for a 55-62 point wing (Ryan) or a 62-65 (Nash) point wing who are both in their prime and have massive contracts.
Definitely a head scratcher to me...

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06-25-2012, 09:45 AM
  #244
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What FA 2nd line center is available? How much will he cost?

If the answer to the 1st question isn't "none", the answer to the 2nd question is invariably "too much".
Sather says he won't dismantle the team and the proposals still include Stepan and DZ plus for 1 player. Go figure. There's a reason why Anaheim with Perry and Getzlaf 1 year and 6 days away from leaving for nothing are willing to trade Ryan who is coming off 4 30 goal seasons and is signed for the next 3 years.

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06-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #245
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Cuz everyone knows Staal is just a 3rd line center jeez
No, he isn't. Maybe you're being sarcastic here?

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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Cause Ryan is a much better player.
Again, no he isn't. Maybe Ryan is a better player, which I actually would disagree with, but if he is than it's not better by a wide margin. And even so, centers have more trade value than wingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Completely different scenarios. Staal was a UFA after this year and they tried to get as much value as possible. Nash and Ryan ate locked up long term and Anaheim doesn't A) have to trade Ryan or B) have to trade him to us so in that regard we need a convincing package or good sales job by Sather. I agree with Nadh we should really be playing hardball with and force Howson's hand.
Partially disagree with this too. Carolina wasn't paying a rental price for Jordan Staal. They paid a price for a guy still under contract. I agree that Anaheim doesn't have to trade Ryan, but he's not getting more in return than, say, Jeff Carter or Mike Richards got last year.

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06-25-2012, 09:49 AM
  #246
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So trade one 50 point center (Stepan) and a 40 point defenseman(MDZ) who are both 22 and can only get better plus a 1st for a 55-62 point wing (Ryan) or a 62-65 (Nash) point wing who are both in their prime and have massive contracts.
Definitely a head scratcher to me...
Lets be fair to at least Ryan here, when you say "in his prime". haha he's 25 my man. You dont wanna trade any of our up and coming 40 pt 22 year olds for an up and coming 60 pt 25 year old on a slightly bigger contract than Dubinsky? That's the head scratcher...

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06-25-2012, 09:52 AM
  #247
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Jordan Staal>Ryan and Nash. Ryan disappears for games and then scores a few goals. The Youtube goals. Puts the puck between his legs and has it hit his skate and then roofs it on his backhand.

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06-25-2012, 09:53 AM
  #248
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Lets be fair to at least Ryan here, when you say "in his prime". haha he's 25 my man. You dont wanna trade any of our up and coming 40 pt 22 year olds for an up and coming 60 pt 25 year old on a slightly bigger contract than Dubinsky? That's the head scratcher...
Would you trade Zubov and Nedved for Samuelson and Robitaille again? If the answer is no than you don't make this trade.

A 40 point defenseman is EXTREMELY valuable.. especially if he is only 22. You know how many teams would kill to have a 50 point second line center who is only 22? All of them.
I wouldnt even trade MDZ straight up for Ryan. I would want Ryan and a prospect for MDZ. Anaheim walks out of that trade with the better player. MDZ is better now than Ryan is. 41 points and a Plus 20 for a defenseman. You DO NOT trade a guy like that. Doing so is simply retarded. Guys like Ryan have 14-15 year careers and tail off in their early 30's. Guys like MDZ can play into their early 40's and never really tail off. MDZ will be a Zubov-esq player. 40-55 point defenseman with about 12-15 goals each year and a plus 20 rating. And he will perform like that until he is 40 barring a major injury. Ryan has 6-7 good years left. You can tell MDZ isn't a fluke. His point play got so much better as the season progressed and was pretty damn good in the playoffs.


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06-25-2012, 09:56 AM
  #249
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Jordan Staal>Ryan and Nash. Ryan disappears for games and then scores a few goals. The Youtube goals. Puts the puck between his legs and has it hit his skate and then roofs it on his backhand.
You could say the same about our young forwards albeit not as skilled (Stepan and Anisimov). Players are always going to go hot and cold. Unfortunately, for stars, their cold streaks will always be used as ammo against them.

The more concerning thing with Ryan is the fact that he mentioned wanting going to Philadelphia specifically. If you're the Rangers, how can you knowingly trade for him with that said then?

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06-25-2012, 09:58 AM
  #250
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Did something happen to the Pat Kane trade rumors? Just curious.

Dubinsky, Del Zotto, Thomas, 1st for Kane and Hjalmarsson is a random trade I've been kicking around in my head the last couple of days.

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