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The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly!

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06-25-2012, 11:19 AM
  #301
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I love how Howson was dumb enough to turn down that Isles trade. Dear Lord. Worst GM on the planet offering the other Worst GM on the planet a trade that can help him stock his cupboards for a long time. Worst GM on the planet turns down said trade.

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06-25-2012, 11:20 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
Anyone who is comparing Staal to Nash needs their brain checked.

Nash is >>>>>>>>>>> Staal
Why? The last two seasons Staal has taken the next step. He just hasn't gotten point totals because of his amount of games played. Look no further than his 6 goals and 9 points in 6 playoff games this year.

Also, an interesting observation from hockeydb.com is J.Staal's hockey team has been in the playoffs every year since his inception in Junior hockey.

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06-25-2012, 11:20 AM
  #303
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Ryan's production in terms of goals would more than likely stagnate here.

He'll get more PP time, but Richards/Gaborik is a downgrade from Getzlaf/Perry. At this point, I'd much prefer signing Semin. People love to criticze him for being "invisible", but for whatever reason, Ryan gets off scott free. Semin is arguably the more dangerous player anyway.

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06-25-2012, 11:22 AM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordsCup View Post
Oh thats a nice classless remark to say to his team " we have no other forwards"
He didn't actually say that. It isn't a real quote. If you read the article again you'll see that the writer put that they "should call a press conference and say:"

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06-25-2012, 11:24 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
Ryan's production in terms of goals would more than likely stagnate here.

He'll get more PP time, but Richards/Gaborik is a downgrade from Getzlaf/Perry. At this point, I'd much prefer signing Semin. People love to criticze him for being "invisible", but for whatever reason, Ryan gets off scott free. Semin is arguably the more dangerous player anyway.
Ryan played on the second line this year. I'd say Gaborik and Richie were better this year than Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry. Semin also was sheltered this year, had a lot of o-zone starts and had a piss poor statline for a player with his skill. No to Semin. Yes to Ray Whitney or Shane Doan.


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06-25-2012, 11:25 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I love how Howson was dumb enough to turn down that Isles trade. Dear Lord. Worst GM on the planet offering the other Worst GM on the planet a trade that can help him stock his cupboards for a long time. Worst GM on the planet turns down said trade.
What did the Isles (allegedly) offer?

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06-25-2012, 11:25 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I love how Howson was dumb enough to turn down that Isles trade. Dear Lord. Worst GM on the planet offering the other Worst GM on the planet a trade that can help him stock his cupboards for a long time. Worst GM on the planet turns down said trade.
Howson fired a giant chunk of his scouting department after the draft. I can't imagine he had that much faith in them to find any gems in the later rounds. The Jackets needed a "can't miss" prospect. That's what they got.

I mean, c'mon. Does anyone expect the Jackets to build up a stockpile of great prospects through the late rounds of a weak draft?

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06-25-2012, 11:26 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
What did the Isles (allegedly) offer?
All of their picks in this years draft for the #2 pick.

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06-25-2012, 11:26 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
What did the Isles (allegedly) offer?
All of their draft picks (including the #4) to move up to the #2.

One of the Columbus beat writers confirmed the offer.

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06-25-2012, 11:27 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
Ryan's production in terms of goals would more than likely stagnate here.

He'll get more PP time, but Richards/Gaborik is a downgrade from Getzlaf/Perry. At this point, I'd much prefer signing Semin. People love to criticze him for being "invisible", but for whatever reason, Ryan gets off scott free. Semin is arguably the more dangerous player anyway.
Ryan is streaky, but he doesn't spend much of his time playing with Getz and Perry. They've been trying to build a 2nd line around him for 2 or 3 years now.

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06-25-2012, 11:27 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Howson fired a giant chunk of his scouting department after the draft. I can't imagine he had that much faith in them to find any gems in the later rounds. The Jackets needed a "can't miss" prospect. That's what they got.

I mean, c'mon. Does anyone expect the Jackets to build up a stockpile of great prospects through the late rounds of a weak draft?
I don't really consider Murray to be a "can't miss" prospect. Murray is a nice prospect, but can't miss? That's not the label I'd use on him at all. He's no Drew Doughty-ish prospect or anything. Potential top pairing guy, but can't miss? Not the correct label.

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06-25-2012, 11:27 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
All of their draft picks (including the #4) to move up to the #2.

One of the Columbus beat writers confirmed the offer.
Disgraceful.

Unfathomably bad asset management. The only thing dumber than Howson turning down the offer as Snow making it in the first place.

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06-25-2012, 11:32 AM
  #313
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Lol That idiot basically turned down 2 drafts for the price of 1. Unless you have the prospect of drafting the next Lemieux or Gretzky, I do that trade every day , 6 ways to Sunday. Murray isn't in that above class of player. Astounding if true.

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06-25-2012, 11:33 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't really consider Murray to be a "can't miss" prospect. Murray is a nice prospect, but can't miss? That's not the label I'd use on him at all. He's no Drew Doughty-ish prospect or anything. Potential top pairing guy, but can't miss? Not the correct label.
"Can't miss" meaning he'll be an NHLer for a long time. His skating and hockey IQ alone make him a viable #4/#5 guy in the NHL right now. He's certainly no Doughty. Columbus just has a track record of seeing their "top picks" sputter out. They needed a guy who will be a roster player.

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06-25-2012, 11:34 AM
  #315
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This whole situation is laughable. Ive been reading all of these offseason threads but have yet to post. There really isn't anything to say as I agree with everyone. Howson is a joker. In the end I think whoever gets Nash will get him for almost nothing

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06-25-2012, 11:35 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Howson fired a giant chunk of his scouting department after the draft. I can't imagine he had that much faith in them to find any gems in the later rounds. The Jackets needed a "can't miss" prospect. That's what they got.

I mean, c'mon. Does anyone expect the Jackets to build up a stockpile of great prospects through the late rounds of a weak draft?
In all fairness though, it involved moving down just two spots and pick up a very high second.

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06-25-2012, 11:35 AM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
"Can't miss" meaning he'll be an NHLer for a long time. His skating and hockey IQ alone make him a viable #4/#5 guy in the NHL right now. He's certainly no Doughty. Columbus just has a track record of seeing their "top picks" sputter out. They needed a guy who will be a roster player.
That isn't a can't miss player, though. A can't miss guy is a guy that is a sure-fire elite player. Murray is a safe bet to be a decent NHLer. He's no can't miss prospect.

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06-25-2012, 11:35 AM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
In all fairness though, it involved moving down just two spots and pick up a very high second.
The ability to trade back into the mid 1st should've been enough alone to have Howson take the deal.

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06-25-2012, 11:38 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Ryan is streaky, but he doesn't spend much of his time playing with Getz and Perry. They've been trying to build a 2nd line around him for 2 or 3 years now.
He plays with them about 50% of the time. That's enough for me to proclaim him a regular with them. Besides, they clearly cannot build a second line around the player if he continually is reunited with the top line over a 3 year span.

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06-25-2012, 11:39 AM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Howson fired a giant chunk of his scouting department after the draft. I can't imagine he had that much faith in them to find any gems in the later rounds. The Jackets needed a "can't miss" prospect. That's what they got.

I mean, c'mon. Does anyone expect the Jackets to build up a stockpile of great prospects through the late rounds of a weak draft?
you greatly increase the odds of finding a gem, even in a weak draft, when you double the amount of picks you have in any single draft.

They would have had an equally good defenceman at 4 and they would have been able to stockpile their system.

Allowed those kids to develope, cherry picks the kids they want to sign and cut bait on those that they don't want.

This was as bad as Mike Ditka trading his whole draft for Williams and a very bad move by Howson in turning it down.

regardless of the mass firing of the scouting staff.

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06-25-2012, 11:39 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I don't think his value will get any higher regardless of what happens with Ryan, Parise, Suter, etc.

1. Detroit is one of the teams in discussion for Parise and Suter and I'd honestly have to take a break from paying attention to the team if this GM trades Nash to Detroit and hands a gun to them to repeatedly shoot us with. Detroit is finally looking vulnerable. We should not do anything to help them.

2. Pittsburgh is not a good fit. They'd be looking to trade away a defenseman like Martin, maybe they'd throw in a Tyler Kennedy, Dustin Jeffrey and/or Eric Tangradi in some combination, but I'm not sure that any of those guys have that great of an upside--Tangradi in particular has been a disappointment.

3. San Jose isn't going to give up Couture then any more than now. They've made their offer and we've rebuffed it for whatever reason. They aren't even in on Ryan and I'm not sure they could do the others without a separate move to make cap space. In other words, they have every reason to get a trade for Nash done with us now because their other options are less likely to pan out. And yet, we are still at a stalemate here.

4. Minnesota is rumored to be trying to get Parise and/or Suter. Which is odd in and of itself. To me, Minnesota is a team that needs to be rebuilding and even if they got both of those guys, they'd only just barely make the playoffs. Granlund and Coyle are interesting prospects, but there isn't much else there and you have to think they'd be unlikely to trade those guys as the whole point seems to be to supplement with UFAs rather than to trade away their young prospects.

5. I'd avoid trading Nash to Nashville for the same reason as Detroit. If they miss out on Suter, throw them an anchor, not a life preserver. Beyond that, do they have any forwards we actually would want?

6. The Leafs ship sailed as soon as they took the #5 pick, moreso when they traded away Schenn for JVR. They may take a run at Parise, but missing out on him will simply get Burke more focused on goaltending or a center.

7. Never say never with Lou Lamoriello, but this would seem to be a tough one. Henrique is about the only young forward in the Devil's system of interest. Their strength is, as always, on defense.

That leaves Sather and the Rangers. Of course, if he knows he's the only one left in the game because everyone else has either gone another direction or lacks the pieces necessary, then the price isn't any better then than now.
this is an analysis from the CBJ board in regards to Nash trade options. I don't disagree. I wonder what Howson is thinking. Is he hoping there will be another suitor that pops up with a big offer? That Nash gets desperate enough to go to Ottawa?

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06-25-2012, 11:39 AM
  #322
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Not sure what Howson was thinking not taking that deal...also isn't fair to let Snow off the hook for offering that monstrosity in the first place.

I mean, not to mention the 2nd and 3rd round picks he got from the Islanders, but what about the picks he could have added by swapping two fourth rounders for another third let's say? Howson could have absolutely stockpiled the CBJ prospect system.

But I guess when Murray's your guy, Murray's your guy

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06-25-2012, 11:40 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
That isn't a can't miss player, though. A can't miss guy is a guy that is a sure-fire elite player. Murray is a safe bet to be a decent NHLer. He's no can't miss prospect.
Not to me it isn't, but if my vernacular doesn't jive, then whatever.

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06-25-2012, 11:41 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Rangers2319 View Post
This whole situation is laughable. Ive been reading all of these offseason threads but have yet to post. There really isn't anything to say as I agree with everyone. Howson is a joker. In the end I think whoever gets Nash will get him for almost nothing
ha...yea....the thing that howson should realize that what he gains by moving nash is not just physical but mental...there will be a tension in the cbus locker room until he is gone because heis the captain and does not want to be there, that will help the other players relax and concentrate on hockey once he is gone...take what you can get and end the circus

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06-25-2012, 11:42 AM
  #325
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Not sure what Howson was thinking not taking that deal...also isn't fair to let Snow off the hook for offering that monstrosity in the first place.

I mean, not to mention the 2nd and 3rd round picks he got from the Islanders, but what about the picks he could have added by swapping two fourth rounders for another third let's say? Howson could have absolutely stockpiled the CBJ prospect system.

But I guess when Murray's your guy, Murray's your guy
Well, he could have flipped a few for more picks in 2013 as well.

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