HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-25-2012, 12:42 PM
  #326
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
He plays with them about 50% of the time. That's enough for me to proclaim him a regular with them. Besides, they clearly cannot build a second line around the player if he continually is reunited with the top line over a 3 year span.
I don't think a substituting Richards and Gaborik for Getz and Perry is that significant of a move. In fact, I'd go as far as to wager that it might even be better suited for him.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 12:44 PM
  #327
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,073
vCash: 500
Sexy sucks.

That is my carefully considered opinion after many years of watching trades by my Rangers. The deals in discussion are almost a cliche' for the kind of dumb deals this team makes pre lock out.

The arguments against a Nash deal or trading Stepan make too much sense, the arguments for....not so much.

Pizza is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 12:47 PM
  #328
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
you greatly increase the odds of finding a gem, even in a weak draft, when you double the amount of picks you have in any single draft.

They would have had an equally good defenceman at 4 and they would have been able to stockpile their system.

Allowed those kids to develope, cherry picks the kids they want to sign and cut bait on those that they don't want.

This was as bad as Mike Ditka trading his whole draft for Williams and a very bad move by Howson in turning it down.

regardless of the mass firing of the scouting staff.
Or you could just take the guy that you know is going to be an NHL player, and gamble with the rest of the picks that you have at your disposal already. You guys act as if Columbus has a track record of quality drafting and player development. They don't. Why do you think Howson is so desperate to get high-end NHL value in trading Rick Nash?

Of the d-men taken in the top-10, Murray is the only guy I'd be confident in saying will be ready to play in the NHL next season.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 12:58 PM
  #329
JeffMangum
~anger~
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 58,073
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think a substituting Richards and Gaborik for Getz and Perry is that significant of a move. In fact, I'd go as far as to wager that it might even be better suited for him.
Ryan is in a perfect situation with Perry and Getzlaf - they open up space for him. Ryan doesnt use his size to create space or chances. He lets others create space for him, which is exactly the type of player we DON'T need. Now, that doesnt mean I wouldnt welcome him here... it just means that he must A) come at the right price and B) he must learn to use his size more efficiently.

Either way, I still believe Semin is the better fit for this team. Better long-range scorer and more consistently dangerous in the offensive zone.

__________________
Soon.
JeffMangum is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:00 PM
  #330
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post

Of the d-men taken in the top-10, Murray is the only guy I'd be confident in saying will be ready to play in the NHL next season.
That's no way to re-construct a team

Anthony Mauro is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:02 PM
  #331
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Sexy sucks.

That is my carefully considered opinion after many years of watching trades by my Rangers. The deals in discussion are almost a cliche' for the kind of dumb deals this team makes pre lock out.

The arguments against a Nash deal or trading Stepan make too much sense, the arguments for....not so much.
Im in agreement, at least for this off-season.

Im still trying to decide if the absurd amount of venom directed towards Howson on this board can be attributed to people just thinking hes an idiot, or frustration that hes the roadblock for the Rangers acquiring an "elite" (personally, I use this term loosely) talent like Nash. I guess its both.

But as far as Im concerned, the best thing that could currently happen is Howson refuses to come down on his price and the Rangers get to keep assets and avoid an albatross of a contract.

Kick the tires on Whitney and Jagr. You might be able to get both players for just Nash's cap hit - without giving up any assets, and only for 1 year.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:02 PM
  #332
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
Ryan is in a perfect situation with Perry and Getzlaf - they open up space for him. Ryan doesnt use his size to create space or chances. He lets others create space for him, which is exactly the type of player we DON'T need. Now, that doesnt mean I wouldnt welcome him here... it just means that he must A) come at the right price and B) he must learn to use his size more efficiently.

Either way, I still believe Semin is the better fit for this team. Better long-range scorer and more consistently dangerous in the offensive zone.
When you have two other guys doing the bang and crash work, it's hard to be the third guy doing it. I think if you put him with guys like Richards and Gaborik, he can play that role pretty well. Just my opinion.

Semin would be the better fit if he didn't have the maturity level of a 16 year old. Undeniable talent, and the best wrist shot in the league, IMO, but it's a stretch to think that he can be "molded" at this point in his career.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:05 PM
  #333
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
Ryan is in a perfect situation with Perry and Getzlaf - they open up space for him. Ryan doesnt use his size to create space or chances. He lets others create space for him, which is exactly the type of player we DON'T need. Now, that doesnt mean I wouldnt welcome him here... it just means that he must A) come at the right price and B) he must learn to use his size more efficiently.

Either way, I still believe Semin is the better fit for this team. Better long-range scorer and more consistently dangerous in the offensive zone.
Does Ryan spend a lot of the time just sniping for goals? Yes.

But to say he doesn't use his size is a flat out wrong statement. If you watch the videos on him several of his goals are where he drives to the net and uses his big body to protect the puck. He crashes the net hard. He can also create offense single-handedly and while Getzlaf and Perry are big factors on creating chances for him he is also a hell of a player when it comes to creating his own chances which is something we DESPERATELY need.

__________________
New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:06 PM
  #334
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
That's no way to re-construct a team
Which serves my point. Howson has been running the team into the ground for 5 years now and has very little success with the draft. Why would he pass on a kid who would be pretty hard to ruin, in favor of many more question marks? I'm not saying it was the right move, but if your scouting is so inept that you've produced one high-end NHLer out of your last 9 1st round picks -- 8 of which were in the top 10 -- why would you suddenly put your faith in them to score big with twice the picks?

Trxjw is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:08 PM
  #335
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,205
vCash: 500
Isles offered CBJ all of their picks to move from #4 to #2 and Howson turned it down? Haha.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:09 PM
  #336
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
Ryan is in a perfect situation with Perry and Getzlaf - they open up space for him. Ryan doesnt use his size to create space or chances. He lets others create space for him, which is exactly the type of player we DON'T need. Now, that doesnt mean I wouldnt welcome him here... it just means that he must A) come at the right price and B) he must learn to use his size more efficiently.

Either way, I still believe Semin is the better fit for this team. Better long-range scorer and more consistently dangerous in the offensive zone.
Ill usually side with the idea of signing a guy rather than trading for him, but dear God, theres absolutely nothing consistent about Semin's game.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:26 PM
  #337
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,685
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ill usually side with the idea of signing a guy rather than trading for him, but dear God, theres absolutely nothing consistent about Semin's game.
Other than averaging 31 goals and 71 points a year, nothing consistent about it.


pld459666 is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:30 PM
  #338
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Other than averaging 31 goals and 71 points a year, nothing consistent about it.

Ovechkin and Backstrom are no slouches offensively. The poster I was replying to delegitimized Ryan's numbers because of his Getzlaf/Perry connections. The same argument can be made here.

I dont think Semin would put up those numbers with the Rangers - mainly because I dont think he'd get consistent shifts due to his 10-cent brain to go along with his multi-million dollar skill.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:31 PM
  #339
SomebodySaveKreider
Registered User
 
SomebodySaveKreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Isles offered CBJ all of their picks to move from #4 to #2 and Howson turned it down? Haha.
Those two franchises just don't understand how to build a team.

SomebodySaveKreider is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:31 PM
  #340
Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
 
Miamipuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Take a Wild Guess
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Which serves my point. Howson has been running the team into the ground for 5 years now and has very little success with the draft. Why would he pass on a kid who would be pretty hard to ruin, in favor of many more question marks? I'm not saying it was the right move, but if your scouting is so inept that you've produced one high-end NHLer out of your last 9 1st round picks -- 8 of which were in the top 10 -- why would you suddenly put your faith in them to score big with twice the picks?
If you have that little conviction in your scouting dept. your best bet is to do the opposite and just trade all of your picks. It's still a pretty foolish decision to not double your draft and only move down 2 spots.

Miamipuck is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:31 PM
  #341
BroadwayBlues
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 8,280
vCash: 500
AdamRotter profile

AdamRotter RT @cotsonika: Howson didn't want all of the Islanders' picks. He wanted all of the Rangers' roster. 7 minutes ago reply retweet favorite



BroadwayBlues is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:31 PM
  #342
JeffMangum
~anger~
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 58,073
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ill usually side with the idea of signing a guy rather than trading for him, but dear God, theres absolutely nothing consistent about Semin's game.
He is consistently a threat to score - while his production may not be consistnt, neither is the peoduction of Ryan oe Nash. Goal scorers are streaky. Unlike the other two, though, Semin is a threat from anywhere in the offensive zone.

I think Semin's prior reputation is leading to misconceptions about his game in 11-12. He bought in, at least somewhat, to Hunter's system. I really believe that getting away from an immature leadership group and an underachieving team will really help Semin. I think Tortorella could get through to him.

JeffMangum is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:35 PM
  #343
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,119
vCash: 500
Ryan has consistently been a 30 goal scorer for 4 years.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:36 PM
  #344
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
AdamRotter profile

AdamRotter RT @cotsonika: Howson didn't want all of the Islanders' picks. He wanted all of the Rangers' roster. 7 minutes ago reply retweet favorite


Yeah I''d be mad if I was a CBJ fan. They could have still gotten a very good player at four and totally jump started the rebuild with all those picks.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:37 PM
  #345
NyRangers88
Section 208 Row 15
 
NyRangers88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NyRangers88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
He is consistently a threat to score - while his production may not be consistnt, neither is the peoduction of Ryan oe Nash. Goal scorers are streaky. Unlike the other two, though, Semin is a threat from anywhere in the offensive zone.

I think Semin's prior reputation is leading to misconceptions about his game in 11-12. He bought in, at least somewhat, to Hunter's system. I really believe that getting away from an immature leadership group and an underachieving team will really help Semin. I think Tortorella could get through to him.
I agree that Torts wouldn't allow Semin to drift away and lose concentration or effort. If the price is right, I'm all for giving Semin a chance. (At first, I was very skeptical)

Great point about Ryan and Nash being inconsistent also -- it's true with just about everyone we are considering.

__________________
2013-2014 Eastern Conference Champions!!
NyRangers88 is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:37 PM
  #346
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Ryan has consistently been a 30 goal scorer for 4 years.
Doesn't count, lateral move. More grinders.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:37 PM
  #347
turcotte8
Registered User
 
turcotte8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,872
vCash: 500
Snow "We'll give you all our picks for the #2 pick"

Howson "Throw in Tavares and you've got a deal"

turcotte8 is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:39 PM
  #348
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,842
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Not sure what Howson was thinking not taking that deal...also isn't fair to let Snow off the hook for offering that monstrosity in the first place.

I mean, not to mention the 2nd and 3rd round picks he got from the Islanders, but what about the picks he could have added by swapping two fourth rounders for another third let's say? Howson could have absolutely stockpiled the CBJ prospect system.

But I guess when Murray's your guy, Murray's your guy
This was probably not the year to stockpile picks and try to rebuild your system. That's what happened to the Rangers in weak 2004 draft.

bobbop is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:40 PM
  #349
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ovechkin and Backstrom are no slouches offensively. The poster I was replying to delegitimized Ryan's numbers because of his Getzlaf/Perry connections. The same argument can be made here.

I dont think Semin would put up those numbers with the Rangers - mainly because I dont think he'd get consistent shifts due to his 10-cent brain to go along with his multi-million dollar skill.
Even on this Rangers team I think he can be a 60+ point guy.

25+ goals and 35+ assists is not out of reach.

We have the defensively capable forwards to cover for him.

I don't think he would be a big problem here.

pld459666 is offline  
Old
06-25-2012, 01:43 PM
  #350
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
This was probably not the year to stockpile picks and try to rebuild your system. That's what happened to the Rangers in weak 2004 draft.
While I agree, I think a team could have still done fairly well with that many picks, or as another poster mentioned packaged some to get more in the first three rounds. Columbus would be wise to stockpile prospects in any draft at this point.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.