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Common theme of the draft is SIZE down the middle. What is the future of our C's?

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06-25-2012, 08:53 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
He didn't outscore those guys; he got more points. All of those guys (and Plekanec, for that matter, despite far inferior opportunity) scored more goals (in most cases, WAY more goals). If you're talking about points (meaning assists, too), well, that's obviously where the linemate factor (and having legit - meaning relatively independent of who their centre is - 30 goal scorers on both sides) makes a difference.
Scoring has been long referred to as "scoring points (goals and assists)" as well. If you didn't know what I meant by that, I don't know what to tell you.

Legit 30-goal scorers? Oh right, I forgot Erik Cole scored 30 once In his career back in 2005. He only set a career high in goals this season, but DD had nothing to do with that (despite Cole saying he did).

I guess Getzlaf playing with Perry constitutes as a poor linemate. Poor Getzlaf.


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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu
So Desharnais was the best centre Patches played with in the minors? Well, that quote means even less to me now, then.
Pacioretty had already played in the NHL - with guys like Koivu, Kovalev, and others to name a few when he stated that Desharnais was the best player he'd ever played with.

He's also said it a few times this season (as well as Cole & Cammalleri praising him).

But if you want to twist my words around to make your point, feel free.

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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu
Well, as long as they're together, MaxPac and Cole will take DD as high as they can. They like each other, and I'm sure they'll have fun along the way. The flip side of that, though, is I think DD is the limiting factor in just how good that line can be. I know you don't agree, but I don't care. If they turn DD into a PPG player over an entire season, and other lines are contributing regularly, then fine, the plan is working. I suspect there is going to be a point this season, though, where "all of a sudden" DD will find that he's not getting as much space, isn't getting forgotten about as much, and sees his production (and that of his linemates) go down via diminished distribution of the puck through the middle, and finds himself without the necessary tools to deal with that much focus/attention, and struggle to remain as productive as some of the more optimistic forecasts around here. Would be cool if I'm wrong.
Limiting the line of how good they can be? Cole sure was awesome before being put with DD.

And we've already went through that stage where he had no room. Now, he's become confident enough that when he's on the ice, he runs the game at his pace. He can speed up and slow down a game just like Markov.

And fine, put DD on a line with Bourque and Gionta. When that line becomes our best scoring line, come back at me with some new material that Desharnais will prove wrong.

I don't see what this kid has to do to prove to some people that he's the real deal and then some.


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06-25-2012, 08:54 AM
  #77
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Desharnais is going to prove alot of people wrong this year. I really think he's going to end up with 70+ points. In fact, I'd like to see Pacioretty with Plekanec, and have Desharnais try to get either Bourque or Eller going on his left wing this year.

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06-25-2012, 09:02 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Desharnais is going to prove alot of people wrong this year. I really think he's going to end up with 70+ points. In fact, I'd like to see Pacioretty with Plekanec, and have Desharnais try to get either Bourque or Eller going on his left wing this year.
And I hope he does. But not because he plays the same role as last year, which unless we hit a home run in free agency, is not a winning formula with the lack of winger depth elsewhere.

All I ask is that this year be a clean slate. And that Eller gets opportunities, in whatever position. Because people complain we lack size, Eller has size, he's also the only player on the team who can deke a goalie, so let's not write him off at 22. I know advance stats aren't everything but the numbers suggest that he has a higher upside than Desharnais and even Plekanec.

Realistically Desharnais could put up less points than last year and I'll be impressed, because he'd be doing it in I hope a more balanced role with potentially lower shooting %s.

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06-25-2012, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I don't see what this kid has to do to prove to some people that he's the real deal and then some.
People underrate DD because of two reasons.

1. He's pint sized.
2. He wasn't highly regarded as a prospect.

But what these same people have failed to realize is that he was not a highly regarded prospect because he was deemed too small to play his game in the NHL. The fact that he's already proven that his lack of size doesn't hinder his offensive game in the NHL has made both reasons to doubt him no longer applicable. And this should also force people to simply see him for what he is, and that's a very productive, if small, scoring line center.

I think he'll have 70+ next year.

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06-25-2012, 09:09 AM
  #80
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And I hope he does. But not because he plays the same role as last year, which unless we hit a home run in free agency, is not a winning formula with the lack of winger depth elsewhere.

All I ask is that this year be a clean slate. And that Eller gets opportunities, in whatever position. Because people complain we lack size, Eller has size, he's also the only player on the team who can deke a goalie, so let's not write him off at 22. I know advance stats aren't everything but the numbers suggest that he has a higher upside than Desharnais and even Plekanec.

Realistically Desharnais could put up less points than last year and I'll be impressed, because he'd be doing it in I hope a more balanced role with potentially lower shooting %s.
It's not about Eller vs. Desharnais.

Desharnais is a top two center on this team, while Eller for now at least is a 3rd line two way center kind of like how Staal was used in Pittsburgh. Nothin wrong with that, until he forces the organizations hand otherwise, he should be left in this capacity. He's not ready for a bigger role yet at least. But I wouldn't mind giving Eller PP time on the wing either.

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06-25-2012, 09:10 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
People underrate DD because of two reasons.

1. He's pint sized.
2. He wasn't highly regarded as a prospect.

But what these same people have failed to realize is that he was not a highly regarded prospect because he was deemed too small to play his game in the NHL. The fact that he's already proven that his lack of size doesn't hinder his offensive game in the NHL has made both reasons to doubt him no longer applicable. And this should also force people to simply see him for what he is, and that's a very productive, if small, scoring line center.

I think he'll have 70+ next year.
Exactly. Also the same reason Halak was thrown under a bus around here so often. Pffttt 200th overall? He sucks, who cares what he's doing on the ice!


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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
It's not about Eller vs. Desharnais.

Desharnais is a top two center on this team, while Eller for now at least is a 3rd line two way center kind of like how Staal was used in Pittsburgh. Nothin wrong with that, until he forces the organizations hand otherwise, he should be left in this capacity. He's not ready for a bigger role yet at least. But I wouldn't mind giving Eller PP time on the wing either.
Screw giving Eller PP time. I would raise his role next year --- he'd be on my number 1 PK unit.

I'd keep Plekanec much more rested than having him out there all the time. I think we could play all three centers around 17-18 minutes a game, with a 4th line guy getting 7-8 minutes.

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06-25-2012, 09:15 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
People underrate DD because of two reasons.

1. He's pint sized.
2. He wasn't highly regarded as a prospect.

But what these same people have failed to realize is that he was not a highly regarded prospect because he was deemed too small to play his game in the NHL. The fact that he's already proven that his lack of size doesn't hinder his offensive game in the NHL has made both reasons to doubt him no longer applicable. And this should also force people to simply see him for what he is, and that's a very productive, if small, scoring line center.

I think he'll have 70+ next year.
Well if I disregard (though I'm not a DD hater by any means) Desharnais it's because from what I've seen the underlying possession numbers DD had away from Patches and Cole weren't very good, and with Gionta down he had a virtual monopoly on the only two effective wingers on the team leading to some very ugly hockey last season. But I blame Cunneyworth for neutering Plekanec and Eller, not DD.

And Desharnais earned his place on the team, easily. You can't teach hockey sense like that, and while I don't think he was the best player on that line by any means, he did have his moments where his creativity broke open games. But he has certain limitations, as hard as he does battle his movement has improved but he doesn't have the speed most NHLers that size do, and he's not as strong as someone like Gionta or Gerbe either.

If Desharnais has to be sheltered by Cole and Patches then yes, it is problematic. That's not necessarily the case but until proven otherwise, ability to play in all situations is why Plekanec is still the best forward on this team.

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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
It's not about Eller vs. Desharnais.

Desharnais is a top two center on this team, while Eller for now at least is a 3rd line two way center kind of like how Staal was used in Pittsburgh. Nothin wrong with that, until he forces the organizations hand otherwise, he should be left in this capacity. He's not ready for a bigger role yet at least. But I wouldn't mind giving Eller PP time on the wing either.
I agree to some extent, and I have no problem starting next season with Plek and DD pencilled in as the top 2 Cs unless Eller and Gally prove otherwise. It makes sense that way. But I'd like to see lines moved around until things click for multiple lines, and I'm sure you agree with me that there's no harm in trying both Eller and Desharnais as wingers in situations to see what happens.

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06-25-2012, 09:17 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Oh, no really? Thanks for that tip. Really came out of nowhere with that one.

Scoring has been long referred to as "scoring points (goals and assists)" as well. If you didn't know what I meant by that, I don't know what to tell you.

Legit 30-goal scorers? Oh right, I forgot Erik Cole scored 30 once In his career back in 2005. He only set a career high in goals this season, but DD had nothing to do with that (despite Cole saying he did).
Cole scored 30 goals in 60 games that year. Then he scored 29 in 71. Then Carolina got reaaaally bad. Then he missed half a season and came back with 26 goals, followed by 35 last year. Where is your confusion coming from? And maybe you don't think MaxPac deserves the moniker, but I don't think I've seen his best yet, and he has already hit 33 after being on pace in '10/11 after recovering from the Chara hit, too.

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I guess Getzlaf playing with Perry constitutes as a poor linemate. Poor Getzlaf.
Here's the problem with the comparison you're trying to draw here: Getzlaf is actually their best centreman, and Perry is actually their best winger, and both were 1st round draft picks, indicating they have at least had 1st line potential from their draft year onwards.

The next problem, which I tried to point out to you with the goals/points thing, is that puck distribution is the only way DD significantly impacts the game. Due to his size/strength/speed, and regardless of how hard he works, the easiest thing for any opponent to do, of any skill, is limit his space/time, and therefore his ability to accurately distribute the puck in a timely manner. If he was a better scorer, like a Briere or a Roy, or even a faster skater, then it'd be different, and defenses/goalies might hesitate more when the puck is on his stick.

But he's not, and the quicker/harder other teams work to limit his space (if they ever decide that they need to in order to have success against us), the harder it's going to be to get the puck to the guys who score and get him the bulk of his points. You think he's not only going to break through this adjustment, but surpass his totals of last year. All I can say is good luck with your optimism there, 'cause I don't share it.

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Pacioretty had already played in the NHL - with guys like Koivu, Kovalev, and others to name a few when he stated that Desharnais was the best player he'd ever played with.

He's also said it a few times this season (as well as Cole & Cammalleri praising him).

But if you want to twist my words around to make your point, feel free.
Yeah, well, here's to hoping that Patches isn't transitioned into a scouting job after his playing days are over then, 'cause that's barely different from referring to your wife as the best lover in the world because she's the one who married you; more concerned with the feelings of your spouse and "in-house relations" than being the voice of the greater truth ("Does my ass look fat in these jeans, Max", "No Davey, it looks just fine." )

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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Limiting the line of how good they can be? Cole sure was awesome before being put with DD.

And fine, put DD on a line with Bourque and Gionta. When that line becomes our best scoring line, come back at me with some new material that Desharnais will prove wrong.

I don't see what this kid has to do to prove to some people that he's the real deal and then some.
Oh, I dunno, maybe have more than 3/4 of a year of emerging from obscurity and racking up points on a team that no one was overly concerned about by the All-Star break? That's all I need to start adjusting my perception regarding how/why he has capitalized on his situation. Strawman hypothetical situations (like a DD-Bourque-Gionta prognostication), however, are useless to me.


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06-25-2012, 09:24 AM
  #84
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I agree to some extent, and I have no problem starting next season with Plek and DD pencilled in as the top 2 Cs unless Eller and Gally prove otherwise. It makes sense that way. But I'd like to see lines moved around until things click for multiple lines, and I'm sure you agree with me that there's no harm in trying both Eller and Desharnais as wingers in situations to see what happens.
Eller for sure. DD would really have to struggle out of the gate for me to try him at winger. He was our #1 center just last year. I do think his game is that of a pure center, a playmaker, while Eller could slide to the wing better in my opinion.

The wing would allow Eller to better play to his strengths in my opinion, as he would be able to win battles in the corners with his stick and strength, as well as go to the net, using his speed and skills.

I do like the size Eller brings as a third line center, and there's no doubt he's real solid on the backcheck and in his own zone, but as a scoring line player? I think I like his skillset on the wing better, despite the size he brings to us down the middle.

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06-25-2012, 09:27 AM
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Screw giving Eller PP time. I would raise his role next year --- he'd be on my number 1 PK unit.
Eller is definitely one of our 6 most skilled forwards. Assuming we rolled with the Pac-DD-Cole line on the first unit, I'd like to see a 2nd forward unit on the PP of Eller-Pleks-Gionta, as well as on the 2nd PK unit with Gionta.

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06-25-2012, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Eller for sure. DD would really have to struggle out of the gate for me to try him at winger. He was our #1 center just last year. I do think his game is that of a pure center, a playmaker, while Eller could slide to the wing better in my opinion.

The wing would allow Eller to better play to his strengths in my opinion, as he would be able to win battles in the corners with his stick and strength, as well as go to the net, using his speed and skills.

I do like the size Eller brings as a third line center, and there's no doubt he's real solid on the backcheck and in his own zone, but as a scoring line player? I think I like his skillset on the wing better, despite the size he brings to us down the middle.
Well I think the big thing you are leaving out is how good of a puck carrier Eller is. He has speed, he has dangles, and he is difficult to knock off, he's by far the best puck carrier on the team.

Desharnais is the better offensive player right now in the opposing zone but on the other hand Eller is the better neutral zone player, and this matters unless we are continuing last years dump and chase.

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06-25-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Eller is definitely one of our 6 most skilled forwards. Assuming we rolled with the Pac-DD-Cole line on the first unit, I'd like to see a 2nd forward unit on the PP of Eller-Pleks-Gionta, as well as on the 2nd PK unit with Gionta.
He's top-6 right now and if that's what we go into the season with, yes, I'd put him on the PP.

But I'm really hoping we sign a Top-6 winger, which would bump Bourque down to line #3, possibly with Eller and Leblanc/Palushaj.

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06-25-2012, 09:36 AM
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Well I think the big thing you are leaving out is how good of a puck carrier Eller is. He has speed, he has dangles, and he is difficult to knock off, he's by far the best puck carrier on the team.

Desharnais is the better offensive player right now in the opposing zone but on the other hand Eller is the better neutral zone player, and this matters unless we are continuing last years dump and chase.
Wingers can bring the puck up the ice as well, crisscrossing with a right handed center int he neutral zone to put them both on better shooting sides. I don't think that would be lost with a move to the wing. Another reason why he and DD could be a match made in heaven.

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06-25-2012, 09:39 AM
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He's top-6 right now and if that's what we go into the season with, yes, I'd put him on the PP.

But I'm really hoping we sign a Top-6 winger, which would bump Bourque down to line #3, possibly with Eller and Leblanc/Palushaj.
I want to see Bourque with Desharnais at one point, maybe on the PP or something. For one thing, Bourque might be poor in most other situations but he's a proven goalscorer against weaker opposition, plus if anyone on the team can find a use for his low hockey IQ play, it's DD.

If it works out we can get some value out of Bourque (who is not a great player by any means but is better than he looked on a dysfunctional team), and you guys promoting Desharnais as the best C on this team get ultimate bragging rights.

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Wingers can bring the puck up the ice as well, crisscrossing with a right handed center int he neutral zone to put them both on better shooting sides. I don't think that would be lost with a move to the wing. Another reason why he and DD could be a match made in heaven.
And this is why I hope it's tried regardless of who is the center.

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06-25-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Cole scored 30 goals in 60 games that year. Then he scored 29 in 71. Then Carolina got reaaaally bad. Then he missed half a season and came back with 26 goals, followed by 35 last year. Where is your confusion coming from? And maybe you don't think MaxPac deserves the moniker, but I don't think I've seen his best yet, and he has already hit 33 after being on pace in '10/11 after recovering from the Chara hit, too.
Yeah, Cole can score. But he's done it playing with Eric Staal. And the year he did score 30, I'm pretty sure he was playing with Ray Whitney who just got a 35-goal season out of Radim Vrbata. Cole is obviously a great player, but to think he does it all by himself is a bit crazy, IMO. He does do a lot by himself though and he's a great asset.

No where did I say Pacioretty isn't or can't be a consistent 30-goal scorer. I've been on the Pacioretty bandwagon since draft day.

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Here's the problem with the comparison you're trying to draw here: Getzlaf is actually their best centreman, and Perry is actually their best winger, and both were 1st round draft picks, indicating they have at least had 1st line potential from their draft year onwards.
I'm not trying to draw any comparison, I was just highlighting how great of a season Desharnais had (or in your case, got carried too lol) in the original post by saying who he outscored. Getzlaf is obviously a great player, but he did have Perry to play with last year. Sometimes things just don't fall into place.

As far as potential? I couldn't give a crap where a player is drafted. He he makes to the NHL and produces, that's enough for me.

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The next problem, which I tried to point out to you with the goals/points thing, is that puck distribution is the only way DD significantly impacts the game. Due to his size/strength/speed, and regardless of how hard he works, the easiest thing for any opponent to do, of any skill, is limit his space/time, and therefore his ability to accurately distribute the puck in a timely manner. If he was a better scorer, like a Briere or a Roy, or even a faster skater, then it'd be different, and defenses/goalies might hesitate more when the puck is on his stick.
Okay, well let's get rid of Plekanec then because he had more assists than goals. And let's throw Eller on there too because he can't pass or score!

Adam Oates was consistently a guy who scored 10-15 goals and 55-70 assists. Was he a garbage player because all he could do was distribute the puck? Hell no.

Bringing up Desharnais' speed is so 2009. He's one of the fastest skaters on the team and probably would hold up very well against all NHLers as far as speed goes.

His size and strength was obviously a problem (and it's why he wasn't drafted) but he's proven that it doesn't even matter. Yes, he's going to get knocked off the puck sometimes - but I've seen Pacioretty and Cole lose the puck too. Desharnais battles hard in the corners and on the boards (and wins more than he loses). He battles hard for positioning in front of the net (and I can recall more than 1 goal where he screened the goalie). Desharnais plays a lot bigger than he actually is, so his size isn't even an issue anymore.

And Desharnais can score. He's got a great shot, but he rarely uses it because he finds his teammates in better scoring positions because he can put the puck anywhere. He's going to be a consistent ~20ish goal scorer in this league.

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But he's not, and the quicker/harder other teams work to limit his space (if they ever decide that they need to in order to have success against us), the harder it's going to be to get the puck to the guys who score and get him the bulk of his points. You think he's not only going to break through this adjustment, but surpass his totals of last year. All I can say is good luck with your optimism there, 'cause I don't share it.
Surpass his totals from last year? That's not even a question in my mind... while getting better defensively (he improved a lot already) and taking on more responsibilities.

And I don't see this "adjustment" you speak of. I saw him break through the adjustment at the start of last season. He doesn't need to break through anything except a few skulls.

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Yeah, well, here's to hoping that Patches isn't transitioned into a scouting job after his playing days are over then, 'cause that's barely different from referring to your wife as the best lover in the world because she's the one who married you; more concerned with the feelings of your spouse and "in-house relations" than being the voice of the greater truth ("Does my ass look fat in these jeans, Max", "No Davey, it looks just fine." )
Dude, it's not even 10AM yet. Have a few more! (I'm joking obviously, this just reminded me of the old man rants on Two Guys, A Girl, and A Pizza Place, lol).

They played all of 27 games together when he first made the comment. Now, he's made the comment several more times after over 100 games. I'm starting think Patches knows what he's talking about.

If you don't want guys like Desharnais who have vision better than 95% of the league, I'm not sure what you want on this team.

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Oh, I dunno, maybe have more than 3/4 of a year of emerging from obscurity and racking up points on a team that no one was overly concerned about by the All-Star break? That's all I need to start adjusting my perception regarding how/why he has capitalized on his situation. Strawman hypothetical situations (like a DD-Bourque-Gionta prognostication), however, are useless to me.
Haha, that's fair. You can wait before you jump on the bandwagon, that's understandable. I've seen this kid play since he was in the ECHL and after I watched him adapt to the AHL after that, I knew he wasn't going to be stopped. If you've only been familiar with him since he's got the NHL -- be prepared to fall in love really soon. The way he's going to dominate games shortly is going to be a treat to watch.

As for hypothetical situations - that's all hockey is. Potential is hypothetical, if you really want to break it down. DD produced with Pyatt, Pouliot, and Darche (I believe) with limited minutes. I have no doubt he'd produce with Gionta, as far as Bourque goes -- it can't get much worse than what he produced with Plekanec, can it?

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I want to see Bourque with Desharnais at one point, maybe on the PP or something. For one thing, Bourque might be poor in most other situations but he's a proven goalscorer against weaker opposition, plus if anyone on the team can find a use for his low hockey IQ play, it's DD.

If it works out we can get some value out of Bourque (who is not a great player by any means but is better than he looked on a dysfunctional team), and you guys promoting Desharnais as the best C on this team get ultimate bragging rights.
I have absolutely zero problem playing Desharnais with Bourque, if we strike out on the free agent market. If we can sign, say Ray Whitney for a year or two, and play with with Plekanec and Gionta, our problem solves itself. But if we go with what we have right now, I have no worries that DD would produce with Bourque. Although with Bourque, his responsibilities won't go up (they'll somehow be less ), so even if he does produce, he'll just get chirped for playing easy minutes - while I think he's ready for more responsibility.


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06-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #91
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And that's the thing, it's a team sport and if you are going to have one line carry the offense, your offense line better be something like Vancouver or Pittsburgh's first line.

We were the worst team in the east last year. I don't think it's out of the question that players were misused. Hopefully Therrien lets the entire team get a fresh start for better or worse.
The problem is -- the guys that were used in better capacities than they should have been are Ryan White, Travis Moen and every D-Men not named PK Subban, and even in Subban's case, it's close to a stretch. C roles were not the problem last season -- it was winger depth, top-6 wingers not named Cole and Pacioretty all having an off year (CAmmy/Bourque, A. Kost, even Gionta) and inexperimented/misused D-Men. (Basically, Gorges shouldn't be a no.2, Emelin shouldn't be a no.3, Kaberle shouldn't be a no.4, Diaz shouldn't have been a bottom-pairing anchor and Campoli shouldn't be an NHL'er). St-Denis did great as our 6th, but that was at the end of the season.


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06-25-2012, 10:19 AM
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DD's lack of size doesn't bother me, as his hockey IQ more than makes up for it. His line plays most of the time with the puck, he's great on the cycle and wins more battles in the offensive zone than Plekanec. I don't know what else he's gotta do for people to stop worrying about his size.
you're right. that said, nothing short of him turning into the next martin st-louis will change people's minds and even then, knowing this board's almost phallic obsession with size, i doubt anything will ever change for david.

"deal with it" comes to mind...

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06-25-2012, 10:28 AM
  #93
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Our 1st line center is 5'6. Our 2nd line center is 5'10. C'mon man....size is a big issue and so is the lack of depth on the wings. You can win without an elite player. It baffles me how some can watch this team get pushed around and not think that we need to get big up the middle. I mean, this has been a common theme since forever. It's like telling an NFL scout that a high IQ QB can be successful at 5'9.
the NFL argument is such a red herring... not the same thing, at all.

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06-25-2012, 10:34 AM
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What was Terrien's take on Eller, when he was on l'antichambre?

Maybe that could give us an idea on how he wants to use him next year.

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06-25-2012, 10:40 AM
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the NFL argument is such a red herring... not the same thing, at all.
But the Kings won the cup with a lot of tall players, therefore you need only tall players.

Hockey is not football or basketball, height is a factor and with Eller and Gally being over 6' tall and built like tanks is one reason their ceilings are relatively high, but at the same time if being 5'11" is the only thing wrong with some of the other guys we picked, great. Even Plekanec doesn't necessarily struggle against other centers even if he is a "smurf", he gets out-muscled occasionally by big defenses but if anything has a good track record against teams like the Bruins, who he outskates.

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06-25-2012, 12:21 PM
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DD has chemistry with Cole and Pacioretty, something far more valuable than simple size. Also, Cole and Pacioretty have size that opposing teams must deal with, which allows DD to get necessary space to use his speed and skill. You can afford a smaller center on your top line if he has big wingers to support him. DD has the speed, vision, and talent to complement his line mates in a similar manner to Giroux in Philadelphia. How many think Giroux is too small to be a top line center in this league? For those who want to have fun, go compare DD's season from last year to Giroux's first full season, you might be surprised. DD needs a chance to prove last year was not a fluke, but I am more than willing to give it to him because he earned it last season. If anything, getting a big center into our top 6 will help and support DD and his line by making other teams decide which of our top two lines will get the best defensive assignments to face, rather than allow those teams to only focus on the CDP line.

Seriously, give DD another year and the support of a strong second line and all of you naysayers will become believers.

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06-25-2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
DD has chemistry with Cole and Pacioretty, something far more valuable than simple size. Also, Cole and Pacioretty have size that opposing teams must deal with, which allows DD to get necessary space to use his speed and skill. You can afford a smaller center on your top line if he has big wingers to support him. DD has the speed, vision, and talent to complement his line mates in a similar manner to Giroux in Philadelphia. How many think Giroux is too small to be a top line center in this league? For those who want to have fun, go compare DD's season from last year to Giroux's first full season, you might be surprised. DD needs a chance to prove last year was not a fluke, but I am more than willing to give it to him because he earned it last season. If anything, getting a big center into our top 6 will help and support DD and his line by making other teams decide which of our top two lines will get the best defensive assignments to face, rather than allow those teams to only focus on the CDP line.

Seriously, give DD another year and the support of a strong second line and all of you naysayers will become believers.
It's about the team's balance. DD requires our two biggest wingers. Who is Plekanec supposed to play with? We have to spread the size around. That's the problem.

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06-25-2012, 02:07 PM
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It's about the team's balance. DD requires our two biggest wingers. Who is Plekanec supposed to play with? We have to spread the size around. That's the problem.
What a myth.

Desharnais doesn't need them. They just got put together and the line clicked. We had big enough problems getting one line going last year before they were put together, let alone two. So when they started to produce, they just got left together.

Split them up though. Desharnais will still produce. FACT.

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06-25-2012, 02:16 PM
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Yeah, Cole can score. But he's done it playing with Eric Staal. And the year he did score 30, I'm pretty sure he was playing with Ray Whitney who just got a 35-goal season out of Radim Vrbata. Cole is obviously a great player, but to think he does it all by himself is a bit crazy, IMO. He does do a lot by himself though and he's a great asset.

No where did I say Pacioretty isn't or can't be a consistent 30-goal scorer. I've been on the Pacioretty bandwagon since draft day.
Carolina usually played power versus power with Staal and Cole as their top two-way players sheltering lesser talents like Jokinen, Skinner, Ruutu etc on an all offence 2nd line. Having Staal as a linemate isn't that big of an advantage when you play against oppositon's best lines, especially with the lack-luster defensemen behind them Carolina usually fields.

With Desharnais Cole got to play in a pure offensive exploitation role. His offensive numbers going up was a predictable result of a very good two-way player getting fed easier minutes with good linemates.

Getzlaf and Perry who were brought up early in this thread are great examples of this process. Eariler in their career their team would feed the hard matchups to other lines and used them in primarily offensive roles and their numbers were really impressive. Lately due to depth issues Anahiem has been forced to play them against best opposition lines and their production has dipped.

Thinking just in points and not tracking context is how people start thinking Ville Leino is a good player.

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06-25-2012, 02:19 PM
  #100
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Carolina usually played power versus power with Staal and Cole as their top two-way players sheltering lesser talents like Jokinen, Skinner, Ruutu etc on an all offence 2nd line. Having Staal as a linemate isn't that big of an advantage when you play against oppositon's best lines, especially with the lack-luster defensemen behind them Carolina usually fields.

With Desharnais Cole got to play in a pure offensive exploitation role. His offensive numbers going up was a predictable result of a very good two-way player getting fed easier minutes with good linemates.

Getzlaf and Perry who were brought up early in this thread are great examples of this process. Eariler in their career their team would feed the hard matchups to other lines and used them in primarily offensive roles and their numbers were really impressive. Lately due to depth issues Anahiem has been forced to play them against best opposition lines and their production has dipped.

Thinking just in points and not tracking context is how people start thinking Ville Leino is a good player.
You know somebody is grasping for air when you see the words "lesser talent" and "Skinner" in a comparison with Eric Cole...

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