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DEFENSE ONLY 2012 NHL Draft | Jun 23 | 10:00a | Rounds 2-7

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06-25-2012, 12:59 PM
  #451
MichaelK
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
You make some good points PW Junior. BUT, with center Gemel Smith (rated anywhere from 37 to 50 on all boards) defenseman Brett Kulak (rated top 60), center Andreas Athanasiou (rated top 40, picked by Detroit of course), center Zach Stepan (rated top 60) large defenseman Mikko Vainanen (11th rated Euro), large defenseman Calle Anderson (15th Euro, top 70 Hockey News, Ranger's pick) and LW Nicholai Prokhorkin (9th Euro) still on the board, you DON'T pick the 209th and 2nd to last rated Central Scouting player. Major reach, major mess up, and unless Luduc suddenly becomes Zdeno Chara, a HUGE waste, when major talent was still there.

I haven't even mentioned the top talent still availabe in the 5th round. The second day is when you find your productive secondary players. And sometimes you find stars, but if they are lacking talent like Leduc, you lessen the chance of having a successful draft.
Athanasiou was really slipping as teams watched him more. Total puck hog and it appeared to be due to a total lack of hockey sense about where his teammates were than him showboating

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06-25-2012, 01:01 PM
  #452
Dan-o16
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
As for the Leduc selection, he's a 4th rounder. While I don't agree or understand the pick either, chances are slim that he or any other 4th rounder is going to have any sort of impact in the NHL. Seriously, I'm failing to grasp the amount of venom this pick is getting. Even if he flops, it's the development of Reinhart, Pokka, and Pelech that is going to determine how good or bad this draft was. The team took a chance on a project, nothing more or nothing less.
Perhaps. But I'd have liked a shot at a 'tender.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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06-25-2012, 01:11 PM
  #453
kasper11
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ESPN has their draft review up...

New York Islanders: A-

GM Garth Snow made a smart move in adding veteran defenseman Lubomir Visnovsky in a draft-day trade with the Ducks. He comes with a healthy cap hit, but that's not a problem for an Islanders team that will likely struggle to get to the floor, assuming there is one in the new CBA. It may be too much to ask for Visnovsky to repeat his 68-point season from 2010-11, but he should be good for at least 40 points if he stays healthy. Along with adding Visnovsky, all they did was draft defense, selecting seven defensemen overall to help boost an organization that finished 27th overall in goals-against last season.

Sonier's prime picks: While other defensemen selected in this year's draft may have an impact sooner, in the long term defenseman Griffin Reinhart (No. 4 overall) could develop into the best all-around defenseman in this year's draft. Son of former NHL great Paul Reinhart, his elite size combined with his skating and puck-moving ability proved to be too much for the Islanders to pass on. Adam Pelech (No. 65 overall) is one of the smartest defensive defensemen in the OHL. The reason he slid to the third round is because of his average skating ability. Jesse Graham in the sixth round is a nice pick. He's a smooth-skating offensive defenseman who produced offensively despite being behind Boston Bruins D prospect Dougie Hamilton.

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06-25-2012, 01:30 PM
  #454
scott99
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
ESPN has their draft review up...

New York Islanders: A-

GM Garth Snow made a smart move in adding veteran defenseman Lubomir Visnovsky in a draft-day trade with the Ducks. He comes with a healthy cap hit, but that's not a problem for an Islanders team that will likely struggle to get to the floor, assuming there is one in the new CBA. It may be too much to ask for Visnovsky to repeat his 68-point season from 2010-11, but he should be good for at least 40 points if he stays healthy. Along with adding Visnovsky, all they did was draft defense, selecting seven defensemen overall to help boost an organization that finished 27th overall in goals-against last season.

Sonier's prime picks: While other defensemen selected in this year's draft may have an impact sooner, in the long term defenseman Griffin Reinhart (No. 4 overall) could develop into the best all-around defenseman in this year's draft. Son of former NHL great Paul Reinhart, his elite size combined with his skating and puck-moving ability proved to be too much for the Islanders to pass on. Adam Pelech (No. 65 overall) is one of the smartest defensive defensemen in the OHL. The reason he slid to the third round is because of his average skating ability. Jesse Graham in the sixth round is a nice pick. He's a smooth-skating offensive defenseman who produced offensively despite being behind Boston Bruins D prospect Dougie Hamilton.
Once again, they are basing the A- grade, on the inclusion of Visnovsky. Visnovsky has NOTHING to do with a draft grade. Typically total garbage from ESPN, who knows less about hockey than Charles Wang. Anyone who has any in depth knowledge of the players available in the draft, and the players left on the board by the Islanders, does not give our draft an A-. I love the Reinhart pick, the Pelech pick, and to a certain degree, I like the Pokka pick (though better and higher rated D-men were available, Finn and Thrower). Anything after Pokka was a mixed bag. I've seen Graham rated anywhere from 65 (ISS) to 180. I won't even mention picks 4 and 5, I've attacked those picks ad nauseum.

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06-25-2012, 01:36 PM
  #455
Original Rob
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Once again, they are basing the A- grade, on the inclusion of Visnovsky. Visnovsky has NOTHING to do with a draft grade. Typically total garbage from ESPN, who knows less about hockey than Charles Wang. Anyone who has any in depth knowledge of the players available in the draft, and the players left on the board by the Islanders, does not give our draft an A-. I love the Reinhart pick, the Pelech pick, and to a certain degree, I like the Pokka pick (though better and higher rated D-men were available, Finn and Thrower). Anything after Pokka was a mixed bag. I've seen Graham rated anywhere from 65 (ISS) to 180. I won't even mention picks 4 and 5, I've attacked those picks ad nauseum.
You do realize that every once in a while, an 18-year old ranked #136 may have a better NHL career than a guy ranked #78 on the final rankings, right? Why hire a scouting staff if you should just look at the ISS and CS rankings and draft in a sequential order?

Not that I have much faith in the Isles' ability to identify or groom top players, but your whole argument is based on where these players were ranked on some list that, with the benefit of hindsight 5 years from now, will be completely irrelevant.

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06-25-2012, 01:55 PM
  #456
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You do realize that every once in a while, an 18-year old ranked #136 may have a better NHL career than a guy ranked #78 on the final rankings, right? Why hire a scouting staff if you should just look at the ISS and CS rankings and draft in a sequential order?

Not that I have much faith in the Isles' ability to identify or groom top players, but your whole argument is based on where these players were ranked on some list that, with the benefit of hindsight 5 years from now, will be completely irrelevant.
Agreed, but why not take a chance on a guy rated top #50 instead of a guy rated #209. Odds are most likely that the top #50 guy pans out before #209, not all the time, but odds are in your favor.

I've been an Isle's fan since 1975, and have been following the draft religiously since 1979. I've been wrong on my assessments many times (I was happy Quebec picked Sundin over Chyzowski in 1989, thought we needed a sniper to replace Bossy), BUT, I've seen the Isles draft only a handful of good to great players since 1983, Lafontaine, Palffy and Tavares have been the only star draftees that have actually become stars when they were Islanders. All the others became stars after the Isles traded them away (Chara, Luongo, Mccabe, Bertuzzi, etc). So only 3 stars for the Islanders since the 1983 draft. I've suffered through many bad drafts for many years, so I can pretty much tell a bad draft. I've seen the Islanders pass up so many good to great players, trusting their scouts instead of the ratings, while the Detroits and the Devils and the Washingtons of the worlds snatch them up, EVEN if they draft way after the Isles.

Unfortunately, the trend will continue until we get rid of this joke of a front office and owner.

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06-25-2012, 03:49 PM
  #457
boredmale
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Agreed, but why not take a chance on a guy rated top #50 instead of a guy rated #209. Odds are most likely that the top #50 guy pans out before #209, not all the time, but odds are in your favor.
If you are truly looking for diamonds in the rough in later rounds you are better off drafting guys in less popular development leagues(one step below the CHL or High School basically).

I'll use Trevor Zajac as an example but he was completely passed over in 2003 when he was playing in the BCHL before being picked in the first round in 2004.

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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I've seen the Islanders pass up so many good to great players, trusting their scouts instead of the ratings, while the Detroits and the Devils and the Washingtons of the worlds snatch them up, EVEN if they draft way after the Isles.
The past 10 years of Detroits success has in large part been for going for that guy who was rated #209 instead of #50(Datsuik and Zetterberg) and striking gold

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06-25-2012, 03:58 PM
  #458
Chapin Landvogt
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I would love to hear Klatt or someone from the staff give us some explanation about why they drafted who where. At least for rounds 4-7.

It'd be interesting to hear what the mindframe was.

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06-25-2012, 05:30 PM
  #459
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My definition above accounted for Daigle. I was ironically thinking exactly of him as I wrote it.

As for the rest of your post, what you mean is the Isles haven't gotten gamechangers yet in their drafts except for the gimme.

Sorry, but not a guy in the business is gonna call Bailey a 'bust'.

At the most, they'll say that some might have hoped for or expectd more from him.

What most will say is, the Isles didn't nurture him properly and are now living through the consequences of that. Sadly, it clearly looks like Niederreiter is being handled in the same manner. Still, SHOCKING that Niederreiter - despite an extra season of juniors after having been drafted - had a season that failed miserably in comparison to Bailey's rookie year.

Dunno where you felt the need to throw in the thought of whether anyone felt Bailey > Eberle?

At the moment, Eberle, Doughty and Pietrangelo are pretty much the three best players from that draft.
The isles invested a lot in bailey. They traded down to draft him and when they did even he was shocked that he went so high (if my memory serves me correctly). He and nino hve absolutely been handled incorrectly...but being mishandled doesn't protect someone from being a "bust". If bailey doesn't improve and continues to be a 3rd line calibre center drafted 9th overall after the isles traded down twice to get him....then yes I think that would make him a "bust".

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06-25-2012, 07:19 PM
  #460
JetsMetsIsles
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
I would love to hear Klatt or someone from the staff give us some explanation about why they drafted who where. At least for rounds 4-7.

It'd be interesting to hear what the mindframe was.
I believe they went for the throw enough defensemen at the wall and hope a couple stick approach.

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