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Common theme of the draft is SIZE down the middle. What is the future of our C's?

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06-25-2012, 02:32 PM
  #101
Drydenwasthebest
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
It's about the team's balance. DD requires our two biggest wingers. Who is Plekanec supposed to play with? We have to spread the size around. That's the problem.
Actually, Plekanec is supposed to play with Bourque and Gionta. Let Bourque start the season in the top 6 to see if he can regain his 27 goal scoring form along with a healthy 25+ goal scoring, hard working Gionta opposite Bourque along with Plekanec dishing from the middle. I am willing to see if this is a line that can work. Put Eller, Leblanc, and Geoffrion on the 3rd, Staubitz, White and a ufa center like Konopka on the 4th, and our forwards look interesting.

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06-25-2012, 02:36 PM
  #102
Et le But
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You know somebody is grasping for air when you see the words "lesser talent" and "Skinner" in a comparison with Eric Cole...
Good job completely ignoring his point. Are you telling me Skinner, especially in his rookie year, is a two way player matched up against the best lines?

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06-25-2012, 03:21 PM
  #103
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Scoring has been long referred to as "scoring points (goals and assists)" as well. If you didn't know what I meant by that, I don't know what to tell you.

Legit 30-goal scorers? Oh right, I forgot Erik Cole scored 30 once In his career back in 2005. He only set a career high in goals this season, but DD had nothing to do with that (despite Cole saying he did).

I guess Getzlaf playing with Perry constitutes as a poor linemate. Poor Getzlaf.



Pacioretty had already played in the NHL - with guys like Koivu, Kovalev, and others to name a few when he stated that Desharnais was the best player he'd ever played with.

He's also said it a few times this season (as well as Cole & Cammalleri praising him).

But if you want to twist my words around to make your point, feel free.


Limiting the line of how good they can be? Cole sure was awesome before being put with DD.

And we've already went through that stage where he had no room. Now, he's become confident enough that when he's on the ice, he runs the game at his pace. He can speed up and slow down a game just like Markov.

And fine, put DD on a line with Bourque and Gionta. When that line becomes our best scoring line, come back at me with some new material that Desharnais will prove wrong.

I don't see what this kid has to do to prove to some people that he's the real deal and then some.
About Pacioretty's remark: I think he meant on his line. I don't recall his having been a linemate of Koivu, Kovalev, or comparable others.

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06-25-2012, 03:24 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
About Pacioretty's remark: I think he meant on his line. I don't recall his having been a linemate of Koivu, Kovalev, or comparable others.
Maybe he did mean on his line, he never stated that clearly.

Either way, he played with Koivu in his first NHL stint. He also played a few games with Kovalev (I have one recorded on DVD with Patches - Koivu - Kovalev as a line). I don't recall how many games he played with either (more with Koivu for sure), but he has played on a line with both of them.

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06-25-2012, 03:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
You know somebody is grasping for air when you see the words "lesser talent" and "Skinner" in a comparison with Eric Cole...
Skinner is very talented but is also a teenager in the NHL. At like most teen-agers in the NHL he blows defensively which is why Carolina shelters him.

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06-25-2012, 03:57 PM
  #106
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
DD has chemistry with Cole and Pacioretty, something far more valuable than simple size. Also, Cole and Pacioretty have size that opposing teams must deal with, which allows DD to get necessary space to use his speed and skill. You can afford a smaller center on your top line if he has big wingers to support him. DD has the speed, vision, and talent to complement his line mates in a similar manner to Giroux in Philadelphia. How many think Giroux is too small to be a top line center in this league? For those who want to have fun, go compare DD's season from last year to Giroux's first full season, you might be surprised. DD needs a chance to prove last year was not a fluke, but I am more than willing to give it to him because he earned it last season. If anything, getting a big center into our top 6 will help and support DD and his line by making other teams decide which of our top two lines will get the best defensive assignments to face, rather than allow those teams to only focus on the CDP line.

Seriously, give DD another year and the support of a strong second line and all of you naysayers will become believers.
You do realize Desharnais is older than Giroux, right?

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06-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #107
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I don't know the game? Right. More like you make asinine statements with no facts to back it up.

When someone debates with you, shows you the facts, and you give up on the debate... guess what that does?

It makes them the winner.

thank you, thank you!
What facts did you show me?


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06-25-2012, 06:11 PM
  #108
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So let me get this straight, it doesn't matter that Eller is as much younger than Desharnais as DD is to Plekanec, because he couldn't turn Ryan White into a sniper on a terrible hockey team it's a good idea to keep the status quo?

The Habs were the 3rd worse team in the league last year. Nobody's position should be untouchable because of personal stats.
When one looks at the entire body of DD's work-from junior through last season-it makes zero sense to switch him from the position which he has played so successfuly. That the Habs were the 3rd worst team in the league is irrelevant. Does one switch Subban to a winger based on that logic? Plekanec to a point man (oh, that was tried)? Of course not.

The status quo of the team needs to be altered. Obviously. But not by changing the position of one of its few high end performers. The addition of better wingers and better play from others-Eller included-is what this team needs.

DD has a 3.58 to 1 assists to games played ratio compared to Eller (59 assists in 130 NHL games for DD/22 assists in 163 games for Eller). That is a difference which goes far beyond linemates, age, utilization or any other factor. Switching DD out of his natural position for Eller makes absolutely no sense.

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06-25-2012, 06:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
When one looks at the entire body of DD's work-from junior through last season-it makes zero sense to switch him from the position which he has played so successfuly. That the Habs were the 3rd worst team in the league is irrelevant. Does one switch Subban to a winger based on that logic? Plekanec to a point man (oh, that was tried)? Of course not.

The status quo of the team needs to be altered. Obviously. But not by changing the position of one of its few high end performers. The addition of better wingers and better play from others-Eller included-is what this team needs.

DD has a 3.58 to 1 assists to games played ratio compared to Eller (59 assists in 130 NHL games for DD/22 assists in 163 games for Eller). That is a difference which goes far beyond linemates, age, utilization or any other factor. Switching DD out of his natural position for Eller makes absolutely no sense.
The problem is the team had 2 top 6 wingers last year, they both played on the same line and said line was used entirely for offense - Plekanec and Eller were matched up against the opposing first and second lines.

Looking at point totals without context isn't very helpful, especially on a bad team. Actually it's funny you mention Subban, because if you look at Subban's points completely out of context, as people on the general board do, it looks bad.

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06-25-2012, 06:41 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The problem is the team had 2 top 6 wingers last year, they both played on the same line and said line was used entirely for offense - Plekanec and Eller were matched up against the opposing first and second lines.

Looking at point totals without context isn't very helpful, especially on a bad team. Actually it's funny you mention Subban, because if you look at Subban's points completely out of context, as people on the general board do, it looks bad.
context was thrown out of this thread a long time ago. Comparing DD's numbers to Eller's and deducing that Eller is not good is short sighted.

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06-25-2012, 06:51 PM
  #111
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The NHL averaged 5.32 goals per game this past season. That's 2.66 goals per game per team.

Points are very hard to generate in today's NHL. Haphazardly changing the position of players like DD who have shown that they can generate points in this very difficult scoring environment is a very risky undertaking.

Not too many players can generate .6 ppg anymore. In the NHL in 2011-12 only 112 players generated 48 points or more. All postions, all utilizations, all everything. That is only 3.7 players per team. DD generated 60 points and there were only 58 players-2 per NHL team-who generated that many.

Rational decision making would preclude tinkering with a position that a highly successful player point generator has been playing for some hypothetical "potential" scenario.

There's some context for some of you to chew on.

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06-25-2012, 07:04 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
But the Kings won the cup with a lot of tall players, therefore you need only tall players.
Plekanec is the closest thing we can ice in terms of skill and compete level/strength to counter guys like Richards and Brown. Eller may be on his way. If I thought DD could win his fair share of puck battles against guys like that, I'd have less reservations about him. But you know he can't. I so wish we had made the playoffs just so I could have seen how DD fared against consistently good opponents in a playoff setting, where the impact of match-ups is magnified.

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06-25-2012, 07:06 PM
  #113
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I could handle way less hyperbole and fewer strawmans, as well.


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06-25-2012, 07:34 PM
  #114
hockeyfan2k11
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I could handle way less hyperbole and fewer strawmans, as well.
I think I'm one of the most objective posters here.

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06-25-2012, 07:37 PM
  #115
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I could handle way less hyperbole and fewer strawmans, as well.
And I could handle people being less worried about size and more worried about what a player does on the ice.

Like I said, I'll take what Pacioretty and Cole say, so I'll stop with the debate for now.

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06-25-2012, 07:42 PM
  #116
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I don't think Bergevin would move Plekanec, but I don't think he's untouchable. However, having Plek is a big part of the reason that DD is able to be successful, too. They compliment eachother nicely. I think the right thing to do is see how Eller develops this year. If he takes big strides, than next season maybe Plek could be expendable.

But, there's no reason to move a talented and important forward (lynchpin of the forwards I'd say) unless there is a team who wants to trade a younger, cheaper player along with a pick of nice prospect.

Cole and Gionta could be nice wingers for Pleks, which would allow them to take on top defensive roles as an efficient veteran line while giving #14 some guys he can make plays with offensively.

If that happened, I'd say sign Lats or Paranteau (or Jagr ) to play with DD and Max-Pac.

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06-25-2012, 07:44 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
And I could handle people being less worried about size and more worried about what a player does on the ice.

Like I said, I'll take what Pacioretty and Cole say, so I'll stop with the debate for now.
And like I said, I'll let Pacioretty and Cole do what they do, and do likewise.

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06-25-2012, 07:50 PM
  #118
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And like I said, I'll let Pacioretty and Cole do what they do, and do likewise.
I guess one of us will just get bragging rights this year. Gonna be a fun season.

Either way, at the end of the day, if this team is better without DD in the lineup and we can make the playoffs that way, I'm for it 100%.

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06-25-2012, 09:09 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Good job completely ignoring his point. Are you telling me Skinner, especially in his rookie year, is a two way player matched up against the best lines?
Sorry, but some points are better left ignored.

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06-25-2012, 09:37 PM
  #120
Et le But
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Sorry, but some points are better left ignored.
That Skinner is a one way player, at least at this point in his career, and was used as such while Cole played against tougher matchups, isn't one of them. Calling Cole more talented than Skinner is silly, but that really wasn't the point.

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06-25-2012, 10:09 PM
  #121
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Sorry, but some points are better left ignored.
Are you getting fixated on the word talent? That's something that means different things in different contexts. Here it refered to ability to drive the play and get positive results (more goals for than against).

Skinner came into the league with plenty of fancy moves, boatloads of potential and the ability to score. But when they were on the same team in Skinner's rookie year Cole was a better two-way even strength player because he could both score and defend. Which is why played against the opponent's strength and the other played against opponents weakness. Its just sensible coaching.

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05-09-2013, 10:50 PM
  #122
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So....looks like I was right about DD. Question is...what is our center position going to look like next year?

Pleks
Eller
Handzus?
Halpern?

I think Galchenyuk stays on the wing....while playing spot duty at C.

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05-09-2013, 10:53 PM
  #123
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Bournival might crack the line up

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05-09-2013, 10:53 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So....looks like I was right about DD. Question is...what is our center position going to look like next year?

Pleks
Eller
Handzus?
Halpern?
Really, I think Plek, Eller and Galchenyuk is a fine center tandem with Halpern and either White or someone similar alternating for the 4th spot. I think the biggest question now is if we can get a physical scorer with size for the wings. Clarkson of course being the standard but with Gionta possibly missing time, now is a good opportunity to upgrade there.

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Bournival might crack the line up
I could see him fighting for a spot.

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05-09-2013, 11:58 PM
  #125
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IMO get rid of DD or move him to the wing...these are the only two sound options I see for a successful future. Next season should see Plekanec on the first line, Eller or a new big center on the second line, and Galchenyuk as the third.

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