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Grading the Blue Jackets at the 2012 Draft

View Poll Results: Rating the 2012 Draft
A 11 13.10%
B 57 67.86%
C 10 11.90%
D 5 5.95%
F 1 1.19%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-24-2012, 01:50 PM
  #51
Mayor Bee
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Originally Posted by STEVE RANDESKOGAH View Post
This may be a bit OT, but who do you think we'll invite to the training camp?
I wouldn't be too terribly surprised to see an undrafted goalie end up in rookie/development camp.

Michael Houser (London Knights), I believe, has exhausted his draft eligibility. He'll turn 20 in September, and still has an overage season left in the OHL.

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06-24-2012, 01:54 PM
  #52
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This may be a bit OT, but who do you think we'll invite to the training camp?
Who is "we"?

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06-24-2012, 02:01 PM
  #53
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Who is "we"?
haha I was just waiting for somebody to notice that. I mean the CBJ

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06-24-2012, 02:07 PM
  #54
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That's kind of bizarre. Maybe they have more faith in their development with coaching rather than with conditioning nowadays?
I don't know...it reminds me of all those teams in the late-1990s, drafting players who simply could not play hockey at the NHL level.

See, you're lucky. So is everyone else. On our way back from the second day of the draft, Mrs. Bee was subjected to an hour-long dissertation on the theory of what makes a player/prospect underrated or overrated. I'll pare it down, and refer only to prospects.

Let's say Prospect A is a poor skater, can't really see the ice well, makes poor decisions, is feeble on defense, but has an NHL-caliber wrist shot. Prospect B is a poor skater, sees the ice well, makes good decisions but can't get the job done, is willing but unskilled on defense, and doesn't have a particularly good shot. Their physical development is at exactly the same level (we'll say "average for junior hockey"); we'll just make this so in order to continue on this path.

Now, most people would pick Prospect A. What usually happens with someone like that is that the eyes are drawn to the NHL-caliber shot, and then everything else that he doesn't do well gets elevated to the level of "well enough". His poor attributes get bumped up to "average", or "he'll develop into it".

Prospect B doesn't have anything that draws the eye, so he's more likely to be overlooked in the first place. His game will be much more closely scrutinized, because everyone is looking for something that he can do well. And, lacking anything that specifically can be pinpointed as a superlative aspect, he'll be overlooked entirely.

Generally speaking, a guy like Prospect A will go in the first three rounds, while someone like Prospect B will go much later (if he's even drafted). For a long time, Detroit would take someone like B, give him 3-5 years, and suddenly everyone would wonder where this guy came from. But in recent years, it looks like they've gone in the opposite direction; they're picking more of A types. I don't know if they're looking at players specifically to fill a niche, or what. But what it also means for Columbus is that there's been a shift from A-types (MacLean) to B-types (Howson). The development curve is longer, and it means a lot more patience, but the chances of the player having a longer and better career are higher.

Now, try to imagine listening to me expound upon this for an hour, and you'll understand why people always feel sorry for Mrs. Bee.

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06-24-2012, 02:16 PM
  #55
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Solid B, because as EspenK put it, we didn't get much scoring talent, which is a definite need.

Murray is a good pick simply because now our blue line is truly deep and loaded with prospects, and veterans signed for years. Given that he's an RFA, Nikitin should soon join the 'signed' group. We have the best blue line in years, and plenty of prospects in the pipeline with enough depth to allow people like Savard to fully develop there.

Dansk and Korpaisalo solidify depth in goal. Neither is ready for the pros of course, but both are highly rated goaltenders coming from good systems. With Bobrovsky we now have another young goaltender, one who played very well as a starter. York is now safely in the AHL where he can grow. We still need another proven NHL goaltender, but much of the emergency is handled.

Josh Anderson is the pick I like least. He has some skill, but it's a bad sign when you google somebody and his top mentions are for fights. His ceiling is the third line, not a bad place, but if the Jackets are going to draft forwards I'd rather bet on scoring potential. Grinders are always available cheap. Zaar I like better because he seems to possess some actual top six potential, even if he's a long shot.

I like Cucuruto as the last pick. He was very, very highly rated at the start of last season, and so he represents a swing for the fence. Either he'll be good, or he'll bust. Perfect for a pick in the last round.

This draft is clearly more about need then Best Available Athlete to me, although one could argue Murray filled less need then Galyenchuk or Forsberg.

With the exception of Anderson this was a good, solid draft.

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06-24-2012, 02:41 PM
  #56
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Ok to beat a dead horse with possibilities which inI themselves are dead horses which would you prefer

Bob
Murray
Dansk

or

Schneider
Collberg/Moroz/kerdiles/Aberg/DiGuiseppi
Frk/Winther
and a 4th rounder

I like the real deal but the hypothetical gives us a better Goalie (I believe) and some offense (hopefully)

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06-24-2012, 02:49 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Now, try to imagine listening to me expound upon this for an hour, and you'll understand why people always feel sorry for Mrs. Bee.
For an hour? Yikes. Please pass along my sympathies.

Interesting theory, although it's not one I'm able to corroborate. (I'm a lot better with pro scouting than amateur scouting. Probably has to do with available information. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Ok to beat a dead horse with possibilities which inI themselves are dead horses which would you prefer

Bob
Murray
Dansk

or

Schneider
Collberg/Moroz/kerdiles/Aberg/DiGuiseppi
Frk/Winther
and a 4th rounder

I like the real deal but the hypothetical gives us a better Goalie (I believe) and some offense (hopefully)
The first every day and twice on Sunday. (Also, I suspect we would have drafted Dansk regardless.)

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06-24-2012, 03:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Detroit has done this huge 180 in recent years. A big part of their alleged late-round advantage was by drafting smart players who would physically develop into NHL players. But with guys like Frk and Athanasiou, plus some of the guys they've drafted in the last three years, it seems like they're drafting guys who have NHL attributes and are hoping they develop the smart/mental side of the game.

We all know how well that's worked previously...Zherdev, Brule, Picard, Fritsche, and many more.
This is very much correct. Frk and Athanasiou have obvious talent, but in the scouting world that I follow so much, it's clear that they are a long way from being NHL talent. If they ever develop the mental aspects of the game, look out ... but, that's a big "IF".

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVE RANDESKOGAH View Post
This may be a bit OT, but who do you think we'll invite to the training camp?
One guy that we had high on our list was Cody Corbett of the Edmonton Oil Kings. We had him pegged to possibly go in the second round, however he went completely undrafted. He was a +36 for the Oil Kings this year, while also showing some grit and offensive upside. My WHL counterpart in Edmonton mentioned that Corbett had many of the same qualities as Griffin Reinhart, and that he might be a little further along, just with a slightly lower ceiling. I don't know that I would peg him that high personally, but Corbett has obvious potential, and might be worth a free agent invite.

Liam Stewart might be a homer choice for me because he plays for the Spokane Chiefs, but the fact is the kid can flat out play. He and center Mike Aviani made the team's leading scorer expendable at the trade deadline, as both of them played well enough to earn more playing time. He's a big, lanky kid who was one of the top penalty killers in the league as a 17 year old. If he fills in and continues to develop a scoring touch (as he did over the course of the season), he's going to be a dangerous player. Of note: he's also the son of Rod Stewart and Rachel Hunter; for what it's worth .

Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Ok to beat a dead horse with possibilities which inI themselves are dead horses which would you prefer

Bob
Murray
Dansk

or

Schneider
Collberg/Moroz/kerdiles/Aberg/DiGuiseppi
Frk/Winther
and a 4th rounder

I like the real deal but the hypothetical gives us a better Goalie (I believe) and some offense (hopefully)
I'd still take the first group. I think Dansk has the potential to be as good as Schneider, and we aren't going to be good immediately, so we might as well wait a couple of years for him to develop while we add some offense. Bobrovsky is a good fill-gap, and while I'm a big fan of Mike Winther, I prefer Dansk over him at this point. Ryan Murray will be a rock on our defense for many years.

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06-24-2012, 06:11 PM
  #59
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I gave our draft an A, because I really liked the trade for Bobrovsky and our first 3 picks (Murray, Dansk, Korpisalo).

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06-24-2012, 06:35 PM
  #60
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I read a quote from Korpisalo on the Jackets website. He said something along the lines of 'its gonna be great to compete with Oscar for the starting spot in the coming years'. That's the kind of competition we need, as well as that bad ass attitude. That quote alone makes me love the kid.

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06-24-2012, 07:07 PM
  #61
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Holy crap - have you guys seen this rumor: https://twitter.com/whlfromabove/sta...40132312801280

As deep as the draft was for defensemen this is one that should have been seriously considered. Assuming it's true, of course.

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06-24-2012, 07:31 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
Holy crap - have you guys seen this rumor: https://twitter.com/whlfromabove/sta...40132312801280

As deep as the draft was for defensemen this is one that should have been seriously considered. Assuming it's true, of course.
Yeah it was hard to believe at first, but since it's the Islanders it's actually a little believable if they really liked Murray, they have a quantity of good prospects so it wouldn't hurt to trade a bunch of picks and ensure quality like Ryan Murray.

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06-25-2012, 12:14 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
Holy crap - have you guys seen this rumor: https://twitter.com/whlfromabove/sta...40132312801280

As deep as the draft was for defensemen this is one that should have been seriously considered. Assuming it's true, of course.
Knowing past occurrences with Cody, this is highly doubtful. A team offering that much to move up two spots? Even watching Ryan Murray and knowing what both he and Griffin Reinhart bring, there's absolutely no way I make that deal if I'm the Isles, and no way I turn that deal down if I'm the Jackets.

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06-25-2012, 01:40 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
Holy crap - have you guys seen this rumor: https://twitter.com/whlfromabove/sta...40132312801280

As deep as the draft was for defensemen this is one that should have been seriously considered. Assuming it's true, of course.
I heard this from a coworker. I don't know that's the case, but if its true, I seriously question Howson's sanity.

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06-25-2012, 02:02 PM
  #65
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I heard this from a coworker. I don't know that's the case, but if its true, I seriously question Howson's sanity.
All those who questioned Howson's and Wright's abilities to draft effectively are now complaining because they didn't add four or five picks in the lower rounds? What do you suppose they would have gotten with that 185th pick that would make up for passing on Murray or Galchenyuk at 2 and 3. Howson has done much to be pilloried for, but turning that trade down isn't one of them.

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06-25-2012, 02:04 PM
  #66
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All those who questioned Howson's and Wright's abilities to draft effectively are now complaining because they didn't add four or five picks in the lower rounds? What do you suppose they would have gotten with that 185th pick that would make up for passing on Murray or Galchenyuk at 2 and 3. Howson has done much to be pilloried for, but turning that trade down isn't one of them.
I'm talking about adding the 4th pick in every round of the draft in exchange for the 2nd overall pick. Thats hard to pass up imo.

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06-25-2012, 02:54 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I'm talking about adding the 4th pick in every round of the draft in exchange for the 2nd overall pick. Thats hard to pass up imo.
Once you get past the #4 pick, not really.

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06-25-2012, 03:16 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
For an hour? Yikes. Please pass along my sympathies.

Interesting theory, although it's not one I'm able to corroborate. (I'm a lot better with pro scouting than amateur scouting. Probably has to do with available information. )
I did pass along sympathies. She wishes to tell everyone that, if she were given 24 hours to live, she would want me by her side. Not for romance or love or comfort, but because me explaining my theories on sport would make those 24 hours seem like an eternity.

I don't know that the theory holds true with success in the lower ranks. There are some things where the gap is simply too large to the point that athleticism can really take over. A kid with a blazing fastball can win all of his games in middle school and most of his games in high school, but that won't be enough in college or in the minors (let alone MLB). A receiver with incredible speed can produce huge amounts in high school, some in college, and not much in pro.

We saw this very phenomenon in hockey, when all those drafts from about 1994 to 2000 featured huge guys who couldn't play the game. Size was becoming increasingly important, and it was thought that if a guy could bowl over junior or college players, that he could physically dominate the NHL. There was a period in the 1980s when poor players who were fast were extremely valuable. 1998 and 1999 had the most extreme elements...1998 had Rico Fata, who I believe Central Scouting had rated as a 10 in skating and a 3 in hockey sense. He went 6th overall, and was awful. 1999 had Mike Rupp, who was about a 5 in everything but was massive. He was so bad that Milbury didn't even offer him a contract, and let him go back in the draft.

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06-25-2012, 03:19 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I did pass along sympathies. She wishes to tell everyone that, if she were given 24 hours to live, she would want me by her side. Not for romance or love or comfort, but because me explaining my theories on sport would make those 24 hours seem like an eternity.
And also because it might make her less concerned about leaving.

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06-25-2012, 03:28 PM
  #70
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And also because it might make her less concerned about leaving.
I'm convinced that if I offered to stay by her side or to just give her cyanide, she'd take the latter so as not to risk her last hours being spent listening to me.

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06-25-2012, 03:35 PM
  #71
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I'm convinced that if I offered to stay by her side or to just give her cyanide, she'd take the latter so as not to risk her last hours being spent listening to me.


Tried to imbed the Princess Bride wedding ceremony here. No luck. Anyone???

EDIT: Use the YT tags - copy in between the part of the YT URL that follows the =. Gold.


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06-25-2012, 03:38 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
All those who questioned Howson's and Wright's abilities to draft effectively are now complaining because they didn't add four or five picks in the lower rounds? What do you suppose they would have gotten with that 185th pick that would make up for passing on Murray or Galchenyuk at 2 and 3. Howson has done much to be pilloried for, but turning that trade down isn't one of them.
2 things here - 1) I wasn't complaining, just passing on a rumor and 2) these weren't later round picks. The Isle had picks in all 7 rounds - high in each round.

Further confirmation of the rumor here:
http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...eir-picks.html

An excerpt:
Quote:
That's right, for the Jackets' No. 2 pick, the Islanders offered pick Nos. 4, 34, 65, 103, 125, 155 and 185. The bounty would have given the Jackets the following picks: 4, 31, 34, 62, 65, 95, 103, 125, 152, 155, 182 and 185. And if that weren't enough, the Jackets could have had the Kings' No. 30 if they wanted it.
Was Murray really worth it to pass up that much? The CBJ are starving for depth & talent and this was an easy way to inject our organization with a ton of talent. The draft was loaded with defensemen and we could have got a quality one at #4 still. I don't know...to me, if I were the GM, this is one trade that I would have strongly considered doing.

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06-25-2012, 03:39 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I heard this from a coworker. I don't know that's the case, but if its true, I seriously question Howson's sanity.
It's true. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=635992

No offense to you guys, but you guys have quite the GM for your team. Scott Howson is insane for not accepting that. He would have only moved down 2 picks and had 6 extra picks. I'm really not sure why he didn't accept that. Again no offense to any of you guys, I'm not here to start **** but I'm sure many of you think he's a lot more than just insane, lol.

I also think he's asking for way too much for Nash IMHO. Eventually so many GM's will just get turned off and he's gonna leave himself with very few options to trade Nash.

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06-25-2012, 03:50 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
It's true. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=635992

No offense to you guys, but you guys have quite the GM for your team. Scott Howson is insane for not accepting that. He would have only moved down 2 picks and had 6 extra picks. I'm really not sure why he didn't accept that. Again no offense to any of you guys, I'm not here to start **** but I'm sure many of you think he's a lot more than just insane, lol.

I also think he's asking for way too much for Nash IMHO. Eventually so many GM's will just get turned off and he's gonna leave himself with very few options to trade Nash.
It's true? It is? There's absolute confirmation. Let me click on that link....

"according to a report"

That's a funny way of confirming things.

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06-25-2012, 03:54 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
It's true. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=635992

No offense to you guys, but you guys have quite the GM for your team. Scott Howson is insane for not accepting that. He would have only moved down 2 picks and had 6 extra picks. I'm really not sure why he didn't accept that. Again no offense to any of you guys, I'm not here to start **** but I'm sure many of you think he's a lot more than just insane, lol.

I also think he's asking for way too much for Nash IMHO. Eventually so many GM's will just get turned off and he's gonna leave himself with very few options to trade Nash.
Agreed on everything except the Nash thing. I don't want him to be pushed around to deal Nash. you meet our demands or you dont get him.

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