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Does getting the G-men assure that Roy stays?

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06-24-2012, 11:05 AM
  #76
tsujimoto74
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Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
not to derail the thread but I think the bigger question is where does this leave Luke Adam? Do they move him to the wing, does he make the team this year?
He's been on the wing ever since he got sent back to Rochester. While I doubt they've given up on him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved in a package to upgrade a roster position.

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06-24-2012, 11:10 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Rejoice that you have so much center depth and move some to the wings.
Around here, the wing hasn't really been used as a place for young centers to mature and learn the game at a high level... it's been the place where failed centers go as a "last chance in the NHL" before a demotion to the minors or a trade.

If Ruff didn't have his hand completely forced into putting Ennis at center to close out last season, I have zero confidence that Ennis would be even in the discussion of "center depth"... and I don't want that happening to this pool of young center talent we have now. We finally have pure centers not named Derek Roy, use them for gods sake.


EDIT: I'm aware the centers are young, but I don't think it's preposterous to think that we keep Foligno Ennis Stafford together (keeping a line together, ridiculous! put Ennis on the wing right?) and try to form a top line around Hodgson. It's a young 1-2 punch down the middle, but not as horribly detrimental to their development as I think people make it out to be.


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06-24-2012, 11:17 AM
  #78
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Darcy said in the draft wrap up that using the center depth on the wings is almost a certainty. Whether he ment on the big club or during the development process I'm not sure.

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06-24-2012, 11:17 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
We have exactly ONE proven top 6 center on the roster, Roy. We only have two centers with at least 1 year under their belt in the NHL. Roy and Hodgson and Cody only has 1 full year.

Folks are getting WAY ahead of themselves with some of these roster predictions and wants for next season.
Amen. I think some fans let the initial excitement over ANY new addition (be it via trade, free agency or a draft pick) snowball into such delirium where they lose all touch of reality or perspective. Case in point: making forecasts of linemates, point totals, trade necessities, etc. just hours after Grigorenko's drafting.

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Is he even playing center anymore?
According to the NY Post reports, the teams inquiring about Dubinsky have done so with respect to him playing center for their team.

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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Roy is not staying if Darcy can help it. He wants him gone
I truly believe this - as much as Regier knows he needs Roy's veteran production as insurance for a relatively-unproven center corps of Hodgson/Ennis, we've all read how much emphasis and awareness he puts on team chemistry and locker room stability. He tried to downplay Roy's season-ending remarks but he must see the same writing on the wall as all of the fans and media do about the Roy-Ruff relationship being on thin ice. Since we know Regier will support Ruff to his dying day, it seems a given that Regier will find a way to remove Roy before he becomes a festering distraction.

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Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
not to derail the thread but I think the bigger question is where does this leave Luke Adam? Do they move him to the wing, does he make the team this year?
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I certainly don't think they've given up on him. I also don't think they'd be opposed to moving him, and wouldn't be surprised if he's a part of trade offers. I think this weekend's draft is further evidence that they don't envision Luke being an NHL center.
Ruff's criticism of Adam's skating isn't likely to go away after last season so the odds do look pretty good that, if Adam is to remain Sabres property, it will be as a winger.

However, if he isn't able to complement his size with a reliable finishing ability, I see him slipping even further down the food chain to where he'd be projected as no more than a 3rd/4th line role player in the grinder mode.

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06-24-2012, 11:22 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Darcy said in the draft wrap up that using the center depth on the wings is almost a certainty. Whether he ment on the big club or during the development process I'm not sure.
Actually, to clarify what he said, he was asked why he drafted mostly centers and not wings. He replied that many centers that get drafted end up at some point playing the wing during their career and that shift of position is easier to make than for a natural winger to shift to center.

Ironically, that assessment came in the aftermath of two seasons where the Sabres used two wingers (Boyes, Hecht) a lot at center while experimenting with three other wingers (Leino, Ennis and, for a brief time, Pominville) in the center slot.

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06-24-2012, 11:24 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
He's been on the wing ever since he got sent back to Rochester. While I doubt they've given up on him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved in a package to upgrade a roster position.
I think they package "Lazy Luke." There's no need for him on wing, and he can't cut it at center. They'll use him as a throw-in while some GMs still perceive him as having some value. (Good thing they didn't see him float around in Rochester to end the season.)

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06-24-2012, 11:27 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I think they package "Lazy Luke." There's no need for him on wing, and he can't cut it at center. They'll use him as a throw-in while some GMs still perceive him as having some value. (Good thing they didn't see him float around in Rochester to end the season.)
Yeah, ideally he's part of a deal to upgrade the grit in the organization.

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06-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
three other wingers (Leino, Ennis and, for a brief time, Pominville) in the center slot.
Wasn't Ennis drafted as a center?

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06-24-2012, 11:37 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Wasn't Ennis drafted as a center?
I believe he was listed at C, but I think the thought at the time was that he would go back to wing based on his size.

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06-24-2012, 11:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I believe he was listed at C, but I think the thought at the time was that he would go back to wing based on his size.
I dunno, we draft a guy at center, force him onto the wing... he has a decent season or two... then the coaches hand is forced and he does exceptionally well at center with a proper mix of size and talent on his wings.

That doesn't sound like a defacto winger to me. That kind of sounds like a diverse line with players being used to their strengths.


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06-24-2012, 11:56 AM
  #86
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I see them looking for a winger in FA, and keeping Grigorenko for the first 9 games, especially if an injury occurs. We can't forget, that's the biggest reason for depth. We're all assuming these guys will be healthy, but by the beginning of the season, there will likely be someone at least slightly injured. I
could see them going after a guy like Moss for the 3rd line winger spot, decent speed, size, can chip in offensively, isn't a trainwreck on defense either.
A few other options could include Stepniak, Knuble, Niklas Hagman or Mikael Samuelsson. Would prefer Moss or Stepniak or even Knuble over the other two. Knuble would add some needed experience/leadership to the forward ranks, and he could be on a 1year deal to make space for Armia.

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06-24-2012, 11:57 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I think they package "Lazy Luke." There's no need for him on wing, and he can't cut it at center. They'll use him as a throw-in while some GMs still perceive him as having some value. (Good thing they didn't see him float around in Rochester to end the season.)
I know this is just a continuation of your disdain from the season. But take step back and see things from Adam's pov. He was on a high coming into the season. Due to some injuries he was able to start on the #1 line with Vanek/Pommer. Over time he wasn't able to handle it and was pulled off that line. His NHL play tailed off to the point of 4th line minutes. He gets demoted to the AHL and is put on wing.

Yet your shocked/angered that a 20 year didn't just take this in stride and tear up the AHL. Even though he had lost his confidence and needed to get it back.

Do you actually think the kid that worked his balls off last summer just decided to quit working and doesn't care any more?

Do posters even remember these guys are human and not emotionless robots. That was a hell of a drop and something a player would likely need and offseason to reset themselves and get back on track from. Particularly a 20 year old.

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06-24-2012, 12:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I know this is just a continuation of your disdain from the season. But take step back and see things from Adam's pov. He was on a high coming into the season. Due to some injuries he was able to start on the #1 line with Vanek/Pommer. Over time he wasn't able to handle it and was pulled off that line. His NHL play tailed off to the point of 4th line minutes. He gets demoted to the AHL and is put on wing.

Yet your shocked/angered that a 20 year didn't just take this in stride and tear up the AHL. Even though he had lost his confidence and needed to get it back.

Do you actually think the kid that worked his balls off last summer just decided to quit working and doesn't care any more?

Do posters even remember these guys are human and not emotionless robots. That was a hell of a drop and something a player would likely need and offseason to reset themselves and get back on track from. Particularly a 20 year old.
I went to almost every Amerks game down the stretch. It's one thing to be shaken and snake-bitten because of the demotion but something entirely different to be lazy and indifferent. If you're snakebitten, you work your tail off to prove people wrong and do the little things right (even if the scoring isn't coming). If he was working and not scoring, that's one thing. You chalk it up to him being a little off between the ears because of the circumstances. But when you pull up on checks in the corner, that's a plain lack of commitment and there's no excuse for it. I remember one game where he tore it up, and the rest he looked so uninterested that it worried me.

Perhaps he gets it together in the offseason, but I still think he's better off being packaged.

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06-24-2012, 12:17 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I went to almost every Amerks game down the stretch. It's one thing to be shaken and snake-bitten because of the demotion but something entirely different to be lazy and indifferent. If you're snakebitten, you work your tail off to prove people wrong and do the little things right (even if the scoring isn't coming). If he was working and not scoring, that's one thing. You chalk it up to him being a little off between the ears because of the circumstances. But when you pull up on checks in the corner, that's a plain lack of commitment and there's no excuse for it. I remember one game where he tore it up, and the rest he looked so uninterested that it worried me.

Perhaps he gets it together in the offseason, but I still think he's better off being packaged.
People have varying points of view of Adam's time in Rochester. Some agree with you that he didn't work hard and was floating. Others, including Matthew Coller and Ron Rolston, say his work ethic was fine but he was enduring a crisis of confidence--this came through in several tweets and post-game interviews. We'll learn a lot about Adam this season.

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06-24-2012, 12:52 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
People have varying points of view of Adam's time in Rochester. Some agree with you that he didn't work hard and was floating. Others, including Matthew Coller and Ron Rolston, say his work ethic was fine but he was enduring a crisis of confidence--this came through in several tweets and post-game interviews. We'll learn a lot about Adam this season.
And to be completely honest his play had really started to come back around by seasons end. My problem with Adam is he needs to be used as an offensive player and unless he develops one hell of a scoring touch he's going to be buried behind 2 way centers that fit Lindys system. Keep him as a center, sell him as a center and try and get a decent return from the dozen teams desparate for center help.

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06-24-2012, 02:01 PM
  #91
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Why are people insistent on trading Roy? This is a perfect situation. One year left on Roy's contract to bridge the gap until the G's might be ready for NHL minutes. There is no guarantee that Grigorenko even makes the NHL this year. If he does, I don't have much interest in putting a lot of the weight of the offense on him.

Keep Roy, if Grig makes the team, try him out on wing.

Foligno - Ennis - Stafford
Vanek - Hodgson - Grigorenko
Leino - Roy - Pominville

Allow VHG to take a lot of offensive minutes, allow LRP to take a lot of the defensive responsibilities. Or throw Gerbe on that line instead of Leino.

Then allow Roy to walk after next season and shift Grig back to center.

It's really a perfect situation in my eyes.

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06-24-2012, 02:48 PM
  #92
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All these projected lineups are still soft. Foligno is the only guy in the top 9 right now with some jam. I believe Darcy will make some moves as the summer progresses to address that, whether it be a blockbuster for Ryan (unlikely) or a trade for another guy more easily had like Clowe or Dubinsky. There are also some bottom six targets through FA, and I still think Regier would have interest in the other Foligno as a third-line C.

This roster won't look like it does today in a two months. I expect at least two additions to the forward core, one being a top six and the other being a fourth-line center. Addressing size at the draft was a step, but I think Regier realizes he needs more of that now.

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06-24-2012, 08:26 PM
  #93
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Hodgson isn't a winger, he's a center. He was even tried there for a bit in Vancouver and it didn't work. he doesn't like playing wing.

I'm guessing your anger/disappointment over Kassian leaving still hasn't diminished and its clouded your ability to fairly evaluate Hodgson.
Am I being harassed by a mod now, what is happening? Where's the eyeroll smiley when I need it?

Dude the trade happened like half a year ago, I never mentioned it. I'm talking about his future with the team moving forward, I got an opinion you don't like it so you're drumming up 6 month old events. Classy.

He's a winger. It probably wont come to fruition for another year but when it does you will probably be all, "Yeah, I knew he was better at wing. Only a matter of time." lol


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06-24-2012, 08:32 PM
  #94
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Ennis was drafted as a center. Ennis and Hodgson are both most useful at center because that's where their playmaking skills shine. Hodgson's skating can (and probably will) improve.
I'm sure he's going to work hard at it, even Stafford got faster so I'm sure he will to. With improved speed, I think he's a better fit at the wing. He made some nice moves off the boards last season and he seems to be less inclined to be the hardest back checker. And Ruff probably wants his centers back checking hard. They wont force him to wing, but I get the sense that he will naturally progress there and find another level of confidence there. Hey, having a stud center on his line could only help that, especially if it means he gets more ice time.

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06-25-2012, 05:51 PM
  #95
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Am I being harassed by a mod now, what is happening? Where's the eyeroll smiley when I need it?
Harassing you? I quoted you and gave my counterpoint on a debate site. Craziness.

Btw my being a mod is completely irrelavent to the debate. So lets keep it that way.

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Dude the trade happened like half a year ago, I never mentioned it. I'm talking about his future with the team moving forward, I got an opinion you don't like it so you're drumming up 6 month old events. Classy.
You've *****ed about the trade and Hodgson ever since it happened. So spare me the "shock" that others think you have an ax to grind with Hodgson.

Quote:
He's a winger. It probably wont come to fruition for another year but when it does you will probably be all, "Yeah, I knew he was better at wing. Only a matter of time." lol
Hodgson is a center right now. That is a fact. There is absolutely nothing to indicate the Sabres have any intention of using him as anything other than a center. In fact Ruff liked his game and was starting to play him in all situations. Likely grooming him for a role similar to Drury's.

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06-25-2012, 06:18 PM
  #96
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It kinda makes sense, let Roy play this year and let him walk to FA, grigs will be ready by then

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06-25-2012, 06:20 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I went to almost every Amerks game down the stretch. It's one thing to be shaken and snake-bitten because of the demotion but something entirely different to be lazy and indifferent. If you're snakebitten, you work your tail off to prove people wrong and do the little things right (even if the scoring isn't coming). If he was working and not scoring, that's one thing. You chalk it up to him being a little off between the ears because of the circumstances. But when you pull up on checks in the corner, that's a plain lack of commitment and there's no excuse for it. I remember one game where he tore it up, and the rest he looked so uninterested that it worried me.

Perhaps he gets it together in the offseason, but I still think he's better off being packaged.
Lack of confidence is more than being snake bitten. Its having a hesitation to your game. It makes you look slower than you are becasue you're thinking too much as opposed to reading and reacting to the play. Adam had ****** confidence and was playing wing which isn't his natural position or where he feels most comfortable.

Players have an adjustment period when learning the responsibilities of a new position (Sometimes they never adjust). It takes time to for them to learn their new role to the point where they are just reading and reacting in their new position. But initially they are thinking too much about what they need to. It leads to hesitations on the ice.

In Adam's case, take the natural adjustment to a new position and throw in an already shattered confidence. It leads to a lot of hesitation and the player looks slower and less engaged in the game.


This season will tell us more about Adam and his future than the end of last year did.

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