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Old
06-25-2012, 07:21 PM
  #26
MAK19
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
So we should give away a great all around #2 defender on a great contract for a guy who has never played in the NHL and a lower pick. We should award you with a gold medal for this thought process.
lol, #2 on the Flames does not mean you're a legit #2 (like on a good team), let alone a great one. #2 behind JBo, what awesome player

Lower pick? Lower than what? Sens are the only ones giving up a pick.

Never played in the NHL? , Yes he has, and you wouldn't trade Gio for Yakupov or Murray? Like I said, Calgary has no idea what their doing and their fans are buying into it apparently

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:22 PM
  #27
EpicNeilTime
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
So we should give away a great all around #2 defender on a great contract for a guy who has never played in the NHL and a lower pick. We should award you with a gold medal for this thought process.
This reason right here is why the Flames arguably had the worst prospect pool heading into the season. By your judgement, Sven Bartcshi (a top 15 pick) is worth Filip Kuba (number 4 defensmen). Cause Bartschi didn't even make an NHL roster this season.

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06-25-2012, 07:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OmniSens View Post
Interesting. But, with Ottawa's defensive prospects, we value Zibby > Gio.
Only on HF can a prospect who hasn't played a season be worth more than a #2 defenseman on a great contract entering his prime

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06-25-2012, 07:44 PM
  #29
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Would never make this deal

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:44 PM
  #30
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
lol, #2 on the Flames does not mean you're a legit #2 (like on a good team), let alone a great one. #2 behind JBo, what awesome player

Lower pick? Lower than what? Sens are the only ones giving up a pick.

Never played in the NHL? , Yes he has, and you wouldn't trade Gio for Yakupov or Murray? Like I said, Calgary has no idea what their doing and their fans are buying into it apparently
He would be #2 on Ottawa as well so he is a number 2 in this conversation.

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:47 PM
  #31
Benny FTW
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Only on HF can a prospect who hasn't played a season be worth more than a #2 defenseman on a great contract entering his prime
Ever heard of potential? its a valuable thing.

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Roffler View Post
Ever heard of potential? its a valuable thing.
I don't think the offer is bad but to say Zib > Gio is very stupid imo.

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:54 PM
  #33
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Between 2010 and 1995 here are the #6 picks I'd take over Giordano:

Oliver-Ekman Larsson
Mikko Koivu

And here are the #6 picks that I would NOT take over Giordano:

Nikita Filatov
Sam Gagner
Gilbert Brule
Al Montoya
Scottie Upshall
Raffi Torres
Brian Finley
Rico Fata
Daniel Tkaczuk
Boyd Devereaux
Steve Kelly

Debatable:

Milan Michalek
Derick Brassard
Brett Connolly (too early to tell imo)

The conclusion? Being drafted 6th overall means absolutely nothing in regards to being an impact player in the NHL.

I'd keep Giordano.

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:54 PM
  #34
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From the sens perspective its actually a pretty good deal value wise. But ottawa imo needs to prove that last season wasnt some miracle (even though no one performed above and beyond their career averages).

I just hope ottawa stays the course and mangement sees where they are truly at in this rebuild next year.

Also its a good deal for the flames too IF they decide to go into full rebuild mode.

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:59 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickHandsNoShot View Post
To Calgary:

Mika Zibanejad/Jakob Silfverberg
2013 2nd Round Pick

To Ottawa:

Mark Giordano
Mikael Backlund/Greg Nemisz

This was being discussed in a different thread a while back between me and a Sens fan. We couldnt quite find a fit because in order for the Flames to give up Giordano the price would be high, but other than these two prospects there is no interest from the Flames. The reason Ottawa does this is the fact that they could use a great two-way LH D-man to play with Karlsson.
I made the comparison to Keith-Seabrook: Not in their styles, but in the way they can control a game is a very attractive option for an up and coming team.

I was told that the values just were a little off, and that Silfverberg may hold a higher value to sens fans than Zibanejad. Which is why the picks and prospects have been added.

I would probrobly do Backlund if it was Silfverberg and the 2nd.
But if it was Zibanejad I would drop Backs off and offer Nemisz.

I wanted to see if both Fanbases could come into an agreement. Modify it as you like, I just think it is a good fit for both teams.
Why would we give you our best D man for a guy who by the looks of it has underachieved for where he was takin in the draft

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:08 PM
  #36
Dick Whitman
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Originally Posted by Flamester View Post
Why would we give you our best D man for a guy who by the looks of it has underachieved for where he was takin in the draft
Underachieved? Based on what? The fact he didn't become a fulltime roster player in his first year? Give me a break. Ottawa doesn't have a problem scouting and developing talent. Let us know how Jankowski pans out, btw.

Ottawa would not trade a high end prospect for a guy like Giordano. He doesn't put us over the top and free agency is 5 days away.


We'll keep our 'underachieving' prospect and you keep your #2 dman on a non-playoff team.

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:11 PM
  #37
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So basically Silf and Z for Gio. Backlund is a bust and Nemisz sucks.

No thanks...

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
So basically Silf and Z for Gio. Backlund is a bust and Nemisz sucks.

No thanks...
Pretty sure it's one of Zibanejad or Silfverberg. Still wouldn't do it personally, but the value is there IMO.

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:39 PM
  #39
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It's unfortunate that other people need to bring up the possibility that the Flames maybe, just maybe, ought to consider trading an established player or two for quality youngsters. Honestly, Flames fans trashing prospects and denying that anything is wrong is insane.

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
So basically Silf and Z for Gio. Backlund is a bust and Nemisz sucks.

No thanks...
Bust at 23?

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:01 PM
  #41
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As someone who lives in the east but watches the flames a fair bit the value isn't too far off, but Ott needs to add something. Right now Gio is worth a bit more than Zib and Backlund is worth a bit more than a 2nd. Not sure what the 2nd should be changed to, or what should be added.

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:13 PM
  #42
Ed Wood
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I like Giordano but Silvferberg and Zibanejad are ottawas' two best prospects and we'd never part with both. Backlund and Nemisz don't interest me at all. I'd only be prepared to trade one of the Swedes for Giordano and would expect that Calgary wouldn't see that as good enough. I really don't think there's a deal to be made here.

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06-25-2012, 11:15 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
I like Giordano but Silvferberg and Zibanejad are ottawas' two best prospects and we'd never part with both. Backlund and Nemisz don't interest me at all. I'd only be prepared to trade one of the Swedes for Giordano and would expect that Calgary wouldn't see that as good enough. I really don't think there's a deal to be made here.
The trade is one of Silv or Zib not both.

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Yeah well Flames fans think J-Bo is a top pairing guy, I don't trust their judgement on Gio.

Gio is not worth a 6th overall caliber prospect+. Not even close
And Sens fans think Karlsson is the next Bobby Orr, so we're even in terms of poor judgment.

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:27 PM
  #45
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So a potential 2-3 centerman for a established number 2 dman? No thanks. Overrating prospects at its finest

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:47 PM
  #46
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Underachieved? Based on what? The fact he didn't become a fulltime roster player in his first year? Give me a break. Ottawa doesn't have a problem scouting and developing talent. Let us know how Jankowski pans out, btw.

Ottawa would not trade a high end prospect for a guy like Giordano. He doesn't put us over the top and free agency is 5 days away.


We'll keep our 'underachieving' prospect and you keep your #2 dman on a non-playoff team.
Zibanejad is the next filatov. BUST. Trust me

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:49 PM
  #47
Flamester
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
lol, #2 on the Flames does not mean you're a legit #2 (like on a good team), let alone a great one. #2 behind JBo, what awesome player

Lower pick? Lower than what? Sens are the only ones giving up a pick.

Never played in the NHL? , Yes he has, and you wouldn't trade Gio for Yakupov or Murray? Like I said, Calgary has no idea what their doing and their fans are buying into it apparently
I doubt Zibanejad will even crack the send lineup this year . I feel hes the bust of the 2011 draft year

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:54 PM
  #48
Dick Whitman
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Originally Posted by Flamester View Post
Zibanejad is the next filatov. BUST. Trust me
Oh, okay, random internet poster. Will do.

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:00 AM
  #49
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Huh? Mark Giordano can control a game? lol no, and this from someone who watched 83 Flames games last season. (including preseason)
I did not say Giordano can control a game himself. What im saying is a Gio-Karlsson pair would look amazing. They could compliment eachother so well, and have the potential to be able to contol a game. That is all.

I was hoping that we could have a civilized discussion about this. No one is making counter proposals to try and make the value right. But its funny, like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I think that since both fanbases (In general) seems to think that the other team would need to add tells me that the value is close lol.

In all honesty I was looking more at Silfverberg than ZBad. That would be the only reason I would part with both Backlund and Giordano. But it would have to include a second, or a conditional 1st.

But if it was Backlund and Gio for Zibanejad I would ask for a first with that.

The whole reason I wanted Silfverberg is bacause the Flames are really weak on the right side now, and in the future. This would go a long way to help that problem, which is why I would be willing to let a Giordano go.

In the Backlund, Gio for Zibanejad proposal; Backlund may be a slight drop off from Z-Bad's potential, but he is already a good 3rd line C, with the potential to be a #2. Plus on top of that you would get Gio. If the Flames offered Nemisz instead, the pick would drop to a 2nd or 3rd. And you could still be getting a decent 3rd line C/RW.

And Ottawa's C depth would look like:

Spezza
Turris
Backlund/Nemisz

Just thinking out loud....

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:03 AM
  #50
SpezDispenser
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Originally Posted by Flamester View Post
Zibanejad is the next filatov. BUST. Trust me
You have no idea what you're talking about. Who should we listen to, the Sens scouting staff or you. Hmmmmm......

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