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Jordan Staal traded to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 8th overall

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06-25-2012, 07:56 PM
  #351
Jacob
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Originally Posted by dogthateats View Post
It seems like noone is excited/talking about Dumoulin. I think he is going to be awesome and was a huge part of this trade.
Probably just because he's the worst of the 3 pieces we got back. But yeah, he's got a chance to be an impact NHLer in his own right.

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06-25-2012, 08:01 PM
  #352
SinfulCobraZ
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Probably just because he's the worst of the 3 pieces we got back. But yeah, he's got a chance to be an impact NHLer in his own right.
I've said it before and will say it again that he's more than just a prospect that will be an impact player. He's going to be a shutdown defensive stud for the top 4. He's touted to be as good as Despres and Despres has shown some serious talent. Only time will tell though.

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06-25-2012, 08:02 PM
  #353
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I'm a little disappointed we haven't got a "I miss Jordan Staal" post from Illinest.

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06-25-2012, 08:30 PM
  #354
RayPayys
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Originally Posted by SinfulCobraZ View Post
I've said it before and will say it again that he's more than just a prospect that will be an impact player. He's going to be a shutdown defensive stud for the top 4. He's touted to be as good as Despres and Despres has shown some serious talent. Only time will tell though.
Can't say I've ever seen him play, but for what it's worth Yahoo and DobberHockey Fantasy just came out with this short blurb:

"Hockey East's Best Defensive Defenseman for two years running, Dumoulin also has some offensive flair. He may need a half-season of AHL experience, but he is extremely close to being NHL ready."

http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnhlexperts/DUM.jpg

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06-25-2012, 08:47 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Too early for the Sutter = Staal with better speed and release wise-cracks?
Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not. Really interesting article looking at the stats and comparing the two as third line centers. Basically, Staal is moderately more productive than Sutter all things being equal, but Sutter did it with weaker linemates (ouch) and against slightly harder competition: http://network.yardbarker.com/nhl/ar...utter/11074157

The Pittsburgh Penguins made the biggest noise at the NHL entry draft yesterday trading Jordan Staal to the Carolina Hurricanes for Brandon Sutter, the 8th overall pick which they used to draft defenseman Derrick Pouliot and defense prospect Brian Dumoulin.

Essentially this trade comes down to the Penguins trading their 3rd line center Jordan Staal, who wants to be a first or second line center and would leave as a UFA next summer to do so, for Carolina’s 3rd line center Brandon Sutter and a pair of promising defense prospects. So, how do Jordan Staal and Brandon Sutter compare as 3rd line centers?

Offense
Sutter Staal
GF20 0.703 0.900
TMGF20 0.772 0.857
OPPGA20 0.799 0.802
HARO+ 0.876 1.081

In the above table GF20 stands for goals for per 20 minutes of 5v5 zone start adjusted ice time over the past 3 seasons, TMGF20 is the GF20 of the players team/line mates, OPPGA20 is the oppositions goals against per 20 minutes of ice time and HARO+ is my offensive rating which takes into account GF20, TMGF20 and OPPGA20.

So, even though Staal plays with better offensive teammates than Sutter does, he still manages to make them even better offensive players when they are playing with him. Brandon Sutter on the other hand plays with significantly weaker offensive players and they become even weaker when playing with Sutter. The end result is Staal comes out looking like a good, above average offensive player while Brandon Sutter is a fairly weak offensive player.

Defense
Sutter Staal
GA20 0.644 0.692
TMGA20 0.898 0.803
OPPGF20 0.814 0.802
HARD+ 1.223 1.120

The above table is similar to the one in under offense except it measures defensive ability by looking at the players GA20, the players teammates GA20 and the opposition players GF20 and HARD+ is my all inclusive defensive rating.

Both players come out looking like good defensive players, but the edge clearly goes to Sutter. He plays with weaker defensive teammates, against stronger offensive competition and despite that produces a lower GA20. In fact, evidence suggest that Brandon Sutter is one of the best defensvie forwards in the NHL. Over the past 3 seasons he ranks 7th in GA20 and 6th in HARD+ among the 221 forwards with with 2000 minutes of 5v5 zone start adjusted ice time. This compares to Staal who ranks 91st and 86th in GA20 and HARD+.

Overall
Sutter Staal
GF% 52.2% 55.2%
TMGF% 46.2% 52.0%
OPPGF% 50.5% 50.3%
HART+ 1.050 1.074

The above table is similar to the previous two but is an overall look at the players performance. This is done by looking at the goals for percentage (GF% = GF / [GF + GA]) for the player, his teammates, and his opponents. Overall, Sutter has moderately worse results, but plays with significant weaker teammates and against marginally superior opponents. In the end Jordan Staal is the better player due to his offensive abilities but Brandon Sutter might be the better fit for the Penguins since with Crosby and Malkin already centering the top 2 lines the Penguins couldn’t fully utilize Staal’s offensive abilities. Pittsburgh’s projected line of Brandon Sutter, Tyler Kennedy and Matt Cooke may well be the best defensive line in the NHL and the 3 of them will have a combined cap hit about the same as the $6M/yr that the Penguins were prepared to give to Staal on a long term 10 year contract. The money they save with Staal (and the trade of Zbynek Michalek) will allow them to address other more important needs such as improving on the wing (Parise?) or adding another top flight defensvie defenseman (Suter?).

From the Hurricanes point of view, the combination of Eric Staal and Jordan Staal now give them a very strong #1/#2 tandem down the middle which is one of the keys to being a successful team. They will need to find themselves a defensive third line center now, but those guys are far easier to find than 2-way second line centers. This is one of those deals that worked out really well for both sides, but on the whole, I think Pittsburgh did really resolving a difficult situation in a quick and efficient way.

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06-25-2012, 08:48 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Just listened to the interview on the X w/ Madden. He says all the right things. His take on defense really had me pumped. While Staal typically avoided those questions, Sutter went right at it and talked about how much he loved it and going up against top lines. That was the part that won me over.

Boring interview but says all the right things.
Just listened to it, and, yeah, really good stuff there. Sounds A LOT like Dad.

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06-25-2012, 08:59 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Didn't he score his first NHL goal against us? I seem to remember him scoring shorthanded after taking the puck from someone in the neutral zone.

Youtube doesn't have his first goal labeled properly as far as I can find, so I'm going off of memory.


How's that for a good memory

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06-25-2012, 09:00 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Just listened to it, and, yeah, really good stuff there. Sounds A LOT like Dad.
Link? Sorry

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06-25-2012, 09:03 PM
  #359
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Link? Sorry
http://www.1059thex.com/cc-common/po...2669_31666.mp3

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Old
06-25-2012, 09:22 PM
  #360
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jordan

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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Can you imagine the ****-storm that will ensure in Carolina in a couple years if we look back and he's scored 25G a couple times?

He does have some nice moves and his speed is outstanding. If we can get Kennedy to stop taking so many dumb shots and use his speed to set up passes for Sutter from behind / around the net, that might actually work. Kennedy has shown at times he's a much better passer (in terms of accuracy and timing) than he is a shooter. He can't create the space but if his speed can get him to the puck first on turnovers resulting in dump-ins and quick chances this could work. If Kennedy chest snipes from the right half wall all year, Sutter might not sniff 20.

Better yet, get him a Ray Whitney to play with (assuming we also get one of Parise or Ryan). That would be dynamite.

Kunitz - Geno - Neal
Parise - Sid - Dupuis
Whitney(or Jeffrey) - Sutter - Cooke / Tangradi
Tangradi / Cooke - Vitale - Kennedy

Everyone where they belong.
On the flip side, how will pens fans feel if jordan gets 35 goals and 45 assists.. works both ways.. i will miss sutter.. but we got a elite player, as u pens fans know

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06-25-2012, 09:25 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by dinz View Post
On the flip side, how will pens fans feel if jordan gets 35 goals and 45 assists.. works both ways.. i will miss sutter.. but we got a elite player, as u pens fans know
I'll actually be pretty happy for him. He would have never gotten the chances offensively to get those numbers here, or develop into anything more than what he already was.

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06-25-2012, 09:27 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by dinz View Post
On the flip side, how will pens fans feel if jordan gets 35 goals and 45 assists.. works both ways.. i will miss sutter.. but we got a elite player, as u pens fans know
Honestly, this really was a win-win.

I don't know if Sutter scores 25 goals, but, as a lot of Canes fans suggested, Cooke and Dupuis/Kennedy might be an upgrade on Sutter's linemate situation from the Canes. I'll be thrilled if he anchors a Pens shutdown line, and I think he'll end up doing that. 50 points would be a bonus. I think he COULD do that, but I see 40 as a more reasonable expectation. And, as you know, for the Pens, the added cap space is gold.

Conversely, Staal COULD be an 80 point player. With Sullivan and Dupuis (when Crosby was out), he was going at about a 40/40 pace. That said, I think 65-75 is a more reasonable expectation.

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06-25-2012, 09:30 PM
  #363
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I feel bad for the person who has to clean the spittle off of Madden's mic screen. Jesus. He talks like he's still got two bites of twinkie and a splash of cola in his mouth.


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06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
  #364
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On the flip side, how will pens fans feel if jordan gets 35 goals and 45 assists.. works both ways.. i will miss sutter.. but we got a elite player, as u pens fans know
Very true. No reason to think production won't go up for both of them. I think Brandon would have to reach 30G to really set off a storm.

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06-25-2012, 09:33 PM
  #365
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He'd better go easy on Flower and Thomas although I have doubts about that.

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06-25-2012, 09:35 PM
  #366
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I'm liking the trade more and more. Sutter has 2C potential and can get his offensive opportunities being a RHS on the PP (spot duty) and being able to play wing more effectively than Staal. I'm sure we've all seen the YouTube videos with his speed to the outside. Solid goal scoring shot. But what I love most is his mentality of loving to play against top players. He embraces it whereas Staal outgrew that role. I think this a great situation for Sutter and the Pens longterm. Add in two top 4 capable D-men in the deal and it's great value for us.

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06-25-2012, 09:35 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Very true. No reason to think production won't go up for both of them. I think Brandon would have to reach 30G to really set off a storm.
Or finish within a dozen points of Jordan (assuming the same number of games played).

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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'm liking the trade more and more. Sutter has 2C potential and can get his offensive opportunities being a RHS on the PP (spot duty) and being able to play wing more effectively than Staal. I'm sure we've all seen the YouTube videos with his speed to the outside. Solid goal scoring shot. But what I love most is his mentality of loving to play against top players. He embraces it whereas Staal outgrew that role. I think this a great situation for Sutter and the Pens longterm. Add in two top 4 capable D-men in the deal and it's great value for us.
Especially when you add the cap ramifications.

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06-25-2012, 09:37 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Or finish within a dozen points of Jordan (assuming the same number of games played).
If Staal plays with Skinner I expect him to have a hell of a year. As much as he loves his brother, knowing he could possibly play with that kid had to be pretty enticing too.

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06-25-2012, 09:40 PM
  #369
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Staal is going to blow up next year. 70+ pts easily. He'll be closer to his brother than Sutter. Impact player. That's what Carolina paid for.

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06-25-2012, 09:41 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
If Staal plays with Skinner I expect him to have a hell of a year. As much as he loves his brother, knowing he could possibly play with that kid had to be pretty enticing too.
He's going to get a lot more opportunities there than he ever got here. I'm happy for him actually, and hoping he does well.

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06-25-2012, 09:42 PM
  #371
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He's going to get a lot more opportunities there than he ever got here. I'm happy for him actually, and hoping he does well.
agreed. Though you just know if he does turn in to a 70 point player the same people that said he was nothing but a 3rd line center will be talking about how stupid it was to get rid of him

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06-25-2012, 09:43 PM
  #372
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agreed. Though you just know if he does turn in to a 70 point player the same people that said he was nothing but a 3rd line center will be talking about how stupid it was to get rid of him
I can think of a few posters in particular...

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06-25-2012, 09:46 PM
  #373
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agreed. Though you just know if he does turn in to a 70 point player the same people that said he was nothing but a 3rd line center will be talking about how stupid it was to get rid of him
Um, I hate to break it to people, but Staal was damn near a PPG player when Sid was out of the lineup AND he was centering Sully and Dupuis. For the season, he was a .80 PPG player, which translates to 65 points over a 82 game season. Expecting 70 points isn't a stretch. I said 65-75 to be safe. 80 wouldn't surprise me. Then again, we're FINALLY going to see a situation where he'll be facing top shutdown lines and defensive tandems. So, you have to factor that the other way, no?

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06-25-2012, 09:46 PM
  #374
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After next season.

Sutter - 2M
Staal - 6-7M

Then i'd assume Shero gives him the default 4M contract if he does well here.

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06-25-2012, 09:55 PM
  #375
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That's too good of a situation for Staal not to push PPG numbers. Playing with a PPG player in Eric or Jeff skinner and getting solid PP minutes. Yeah, he's gonna be a top tier center next year.

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