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2012 NHL Entry Draft - Rounds 2-7 - 10am EST (NHL Network) - Part 5

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:54 AM
  #926
HomaridII
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Yet another article about our draft ..

http://thehockeyguys.net/nhl-draft-m...early-winners/

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06-25-2012, 12:20 PM
  #927
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Another one from the National Post

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...-draft-grades/

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06-25-2012, 02:05 PM
  #928
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I really liked the Flames draft, especially in the later rounds with Culkin and Kulak on D and DeBlouw and Gordon up front. Jankowski and Gillies are projects but with great upside and both fill a need as well.

Oilers draft was horrible. I like Moroz but not at 32 and the Khaira and Zharkov picks also look so risky. They need a D and got...Joey LaLeggia? Ottawa don't really need more mediocre goalies.

Jets and Leafs at least stick to a plan.

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06-25-2012, 02:07 PM
  #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
I really liked the Flames draft, especially in the later rounds with Culkin and Kulak on D and DeBlouw and Gordon up front. Jankowski and Gillies are projects but with great upside and both fill a need as well.

Oilers draft was horrible. I like Moroz but not at 32 and the Khaira and Zharkov picks also look so risky. They need a D and got...Joey LaLeggia? Ottawa don't really need more mediocre goalies.

Jets and Leafs at least stick to a plan.
I liked that Joey LaLeggia pick. Very intriguing numbers in the NCAA.

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06-25-2012, 02:43 PM
  #930
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I wonder, if the first two picks would have been Yakupov and Galchenyuk, should the Habs have traded their pick?


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06-25-2012, 04:02 PM
  #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I wonder, if the first two picks would have been Yakupov and Galchenyuk, should the Habs have traded their pick?
Well, seeing as how Bergevin practically said if we had 2nd overall pick, galchenyuk would of been 2nd overall, and probably the same if we were number 1 overall too

so if galchenyuk was indeed gone at 3, i think they definately would of explored it (who knows, they might of traded down and taken collberg instead, and now we have both!)

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06-25-2012, 04:39 PM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
I really liked the Flames draft, especially in the later rounds with Culkin and Kulak on D and DeBlouw and Gordon up front. Jankowski and Gillies are projects but with great upside and both fill a need as well.

Oilers draft was horrible. I like Moroz but not at 32 and the Khaira and Zharkov picks also look so risky. They need a D and got...Joey LaLeggia? Ottawa don't really need more mediocre goalies.

Jets and Leafs at least stick to a plan.
Im a fan of both Khaira and Zharkov. Moroz at 32 is complete idiocy.

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06-25-2012, 07:39 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I agree with everything here whitesnake. Maybe we took his post the wrong way a bit. I hope that everyone who follows the prospects closely continues to give their input whether they are paid to do it or not and I hope Grant continues to post here as well.
I could have worded the original post better in regards to "backseat scouts." but that's what i've always considered myself to be even when i worked part-time for the Habs...I would like to be a scouting expert but I just can't afford to jetset all across the world on my own dime. I go to as many games as possible, watch a pile of TV, video and webcasts, interview GM's, scouts, broadcasters, players et al, but I'm still pretty much guessing when it comes to a number of players each year. there is no substitute for seeing players live.

I consider myself to be a backseat scout like most of you..perhaps a bit more tuned in than most because i've paid my dues being in journalism for 25 years and getting connections through the years, but I don't consider myself to be an expert by any means. I suppose that why I sometimes get my hackles up a bit when I read about how wrong the NHL scouts got it in regards to this prospect or that....there are reasons why players don't get drafted other than 300 scouts simply being out to lunch. :-)

Now let's get back to talking prospects.

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06-25-2012, 07:58 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I could have worded the original post better in regards to "backseat scouts." but that's what i've always considered myself to be even when i worked part-time for the Habs...I would like to be a scouting expert but I just can't afford to jetset all across the world on my own dime. I go to as many games as possible, watch a pile of TV, video and webcasts, interview GM's, scouts, broadcasters, players et al, but I'm still pretty much guessing when it comes to a number of players each year. there is no substitute for seeing players live.

I consider myself to be a backseat scout like most of you..perhaps a bit more tuned in than most because i've paid my dues being in journalism for 25 years and getting connections through the years, but I don't consider myself to be an expert by any means. I suppose that why I sometimes get my hackles up a bit when I read about how wrong the NHL scouts got it in regards to this prospect or that....there are reasons why players don't get drafted other than 300 scouts simply being out to lunch. :-)

Now let's get back to talking prospects.
Thank you for taking the time for all your posts leading up to the draft, I appreciate it and it brought depth to the discussion here.

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06-25-2012, 08:29 PM
  #935
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The whole weekend, was vindication

Do i feel bad about cheering against the habs for the later part of the year? a little bit, but not REALLY

the smart ones knew, THIs is what had to happen, to be able to restock this dwindling pool of ours...and miraculously, it went even BETTER than any of us imagined

so, ..we got some flack for wanting the habs to lose, and its tough to want something like that

but look whats happened.

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06-25-2012, 08:42 PM
  #936
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Got some tidbits for you.

Habs had Collberg top 15. Lots of teams, not just fans and pundits, think the Habs got a steal.

At least one team (no, not the Habs) did not have Yakupov in its top 10. I would suspect that at least a dozen didn't have Yakupov number one.

One team or more didn't have Galchenyuk in its top ten. I'm hearing toronto wanted him though, among other teams.

Teravainen was in at least three team's top four, probably a few more. A high riser on several lists.

Ceci was top 5 on at least two teams' lists.

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06-25-2012, 08:49 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Got some tidbits for you.

Habs had Collberg top 15. Lots of teams, not just fans and pundits, think the Habs got a steal.

At least one team (no, not the Habs) did not have Yakupov in its top 10. I would suspect that at least a dozen didn't have Yakupov number one.

One team or more didn't have Galchenyuk in its top ten. I'm hearing toronto wanted him though, among other teams.

Teravainen was in at least three team's top four, probably a few more. A high riser on several lists.

Ceci was top 5 on at least two teams' lists.
I'd guess Yakupovs type A personality scared off some teams, and with Gal, it was definitely the knee.

Not surprised about Collberg, I had him in my personal top 15 as well...

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06-25-2012, 09:02 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Not a surprise to me that Trevor pays attention to McKeen's rankings...we got 5 of McKeen's top 45 after-all!
That's not how I read that comment. More like Timmins and Grant having a conversation about McKeen's ranking than anything.

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06-25-2012, 09:13 PM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Got some tidbits for you.

Habs had Collberg top 15. Lots of teams, not just fans and pundits, think the Habs got a steal.

At least one team (no, not the Habs) did not have Yakupov in its top 10. I would suspect that at least a dozen didn't have Yakupov number one.

One team or more didn't have Galchenyuk in its top ten. I'm hearing toronto wanted him though, among other teams.

Teravainen was in at least three team's top four, probably a few more. A high riser on several lists.

Ceci was top 5 on at least two teams' lists.
I dont think it can be said how much we all truly appreciate you bringing these tidbits of information to us.

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06-25-2012, 09:46 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
The whole weekend, was vindication

Do i feel bad about cheering against the habs for the later part of the year? a little bit, but not REALLY

the smart ones knew, THIs is what had to happen, to be able to restock this dwindling pool of ours...and miraculously, it went even BETTER than any of us imagined

so, ..we got some flack for wanting the habs to lose, and its tough to want something like that

but look whats happened.
I never cheered for the Habs to lose, and look what happened. I was never in denial that restocking the prospect pool would be for the best, but at the same time you or I have no impact over what occurred on the ice. Habs still would have picked third had you cheered for them to win every game. High draft picks should be a consolation for a season gone awry, not the goal.

People are already talking about tanking again for 2013.

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06-25-2012, 09:51 PM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
The whole weekend, was vindication

Do i feel bad about cheering against the habs for the later part of the year? a little bit, but not REALLY

the smart ones knew, THIs is what had to happen, to be able to restock this dwindling pool of ours...and miraculously, it went even BETTER than any of us imagined

so, ..we got some flack for wanting the habs to lose, and its tough to want something like that

but look whats happened.
What it still be vindication if Galchenyuk flops or Grigorenko, Teravainen or Forsberg, players drafted by teams that didn't tank, end up being significantly better?

I love what we did in this draft, but even then we were helped as much by certain guys dropping down and opportunism. In fact there's a possibility we had a better draft than the two teams who finished with a worse record, especially after the first round.

So yeah, when things went wrong this year we made the right move selling, but I'm not convinced I want to trade places with the master tankers in Edmonton.

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06-25-2012, 10:37 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Leo Getz View Post
I never cheered for the Habs to lose, and look what happened. I was never in denial that restocking the prospect pool would be for the best, but at the same time you or I have no impact over what occurred on the ice. Habs still would have picked third had you cheered for them to win every game. High draft picks should be a consolation for a season gone awry, not the goal.

People are already talking about tanking again for 2013.
With uncertainty looming as far as a potential lockout, tanking may not need to take place. Hopefully both sides recognize the importance of playing and come to an agreement.

Grant what did Montreal think of Morgan Rielly?

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06-25-2012, 11:04 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by habshound247 View Post
With uncertainty looming as far as a potential lockout, tanking may not need to take place. Hopefully both sides recognize the importance of playing and come to an agreement.

Grant what did Montreal think of Morgan Rielly?
What everyone else thought of him - very impressed with how he looked upon his return form injury. He really turned heads. Dynamic puck carrier with lots of offensive potential, a gym rat. Needs work in his own end like pretty much every d prospect, a little undersized.

He was a top 8 guy for sure, perhaps higher.

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06-25-2012, 11:06 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
What everyone else thought of him - very impressed with how he looked upon his return form injury. He really turned heads. Dynamic puck carrier with lots of offensive potential, a gym rat. Needs work in his own end like pretty much every d prospect, a little undersized.

He was a top 8 guy for sure, perhaps higher.
Thank you. Have a great summer and look forward to reading your updates.

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06-25-2012, 11:19 PM
  #945
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What it still be vindication if Galchenyuk flops or Grigorenko, Teravainen or Forsberg, players drafted by teams that didn't tank, end up being significantly better?

I love what we did in this draft, but even then we were helped as much by certain guys dropping down and opportunism. In fact there's a possibility we had a better draft than the two teams who finished with a worse record, especially after the first round.

So yeah, when things went wrong this year we made the right move selling, but I'm not convinced I want to trade places with the master tankers in Edmonton.
It was certainly the right decision to trade Cammalleri, Gill and Kostitsyn. This was a great draft for the Habs not only because of the 3rd overall but because of the additional 2nd rounder and the fact that drafting this early every pick is moved forward.

A very early 3rd rounder has pretty much the same worth as a late 2nd. Its like we had 2 first picks and 2 second picks because of that. Its no wonder everyone is drooling about all these new prospects.

Lets say Gauthier decided to try and save the team before christmas and traded our second for reinforcements. We would likely have missed the playoffs anyways and would have drafted Terevainen, Forsberg or even Collberg with our middle of the pack first rounder (probably 10 or 12th overall). For the rest of the picks we likely pick each player one round earlier and end up with half as many prospects as we picked this year.

''Tanking'' does not guarantee a great draft, Edmonton's is a bit underwhelming for instance. However if the Habs did not throw the season none of this would have been possible.

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06-25-2012, 11:25 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
It was certainly the right decision to trade Cammalleri, Gill and Kostitsyn. This was a great draft for the Habs not only because of the 3rd overall but because of the additional 2nd rounder and the fact that drafting this early every pick is moved forward.

A very early 3rd rounder has pretty much the same worth as a late 2nd. Its like we had 2 first picks and 2 second picks because of that. Its no wonder everyone is drooling about all these new prospects.

Lets say Gauthier decided to try and save the team before christmas and traded our second for reinforcements. We would likely have missed the playoffs anyways and would have drafted Terevainen, Forsberg or even Collberg with our middle of the pack first rounder (probably 10 or 12th overall). For the rest of the picks we likely pick each player one round earlier and end up with half as many prospects as we picked this year.

''Tanking'' does not guarantee a great draft, Edmonton's is a bit underwhelming for instance. However if the Habs did not throw the season none of this would have been possible.
I agree with all of this and the right decisions were made for the most part. I was actually one of the defenders of the Cammalleri trade (As underwhelming as Bourque is, we were always going to have to take salary back with that contract), and if anything we could be in even better shape if it wasn't for the panic Kaberle trade. But I don't blame them for not pulling the plug right away.

But a different story is all the talk here about getting ready to tank next year, shipping off Plekanec, Gionta, and Markov before the year even begins although none have particularly high value now to begin with. If things go wrong next year I'm fine doing this again, but it's been miserable up until this point and I'm still uncertain about the short term future.

And as good as next years draft is supposed to be, you never know if you will get the same lucky breaks we got.

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06-25-2012, 11:32 PM
  #947
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If we manage to sign Schultz, this off-season will have been the most glorious the Habs had in my memory.

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06-25-2012, 11:39 PM
  #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I agree with all of this and the right decisions were made for the most part. I was actually one of the defenders of the Cammalleri trade (As underwhelming as Bourque is, we were always going to have to take salary back with that contract), and if anything we could be in even better shape if it wasn't for the panic Kaberle trade. But I don't blame them for not pulling the plug right away.

But a different story is all the talk here about getting ready to tank next year, shipping off Plekanec, Gionta, and Markov before the year even begins although none have particularly high value now to begin with. If things go wrong next year I'm fine doing this again, but it's been miserable up until this point and I'm still uncertain about the short term future.

And as good as next years draft is supposed to be, you never know if you will get the same lucky breaks we got.
NOT happy about this tho, no..

Look, i didnt WANt to tank, ..it was only when i realized halfway through the season that we NEEDED to tank, then i was all for spiraling down to the bottom because there was just no way we were going anywhere last year, and im telling you if we dont fall where we did, galchenyuk WOULd of been taken before us and yes i truly DO believe, he will better than grigorenko and MOST others, dont tell me nugent hopkins weighing 160 pounds and playing decent in the NHL is completely out of reach for the much better built galchenyuk who offers the same if not better skill, yeah i said it!

the draft is over, time to look to bigger and brighter things, but most certainly should people NOT be thinking "WOW that was fun! lets suck again next year!" hell no

but if it looks grim halfway thru next season, i dont know.. its either root for a high draft pick again, or sell off some of our THREE second rounders next year to acquire people at the deadline to TRY and make the playoffs... i mean if people want that to happen then thats cool too i guess.....

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06-25-2012, 11:43 PM
  #949
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Well, if next season turns out like this then it's definitely time to do this again and then some, since it means last year was not just a down here.

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If we manage to sign Schultz, this off-season will have been the most glorious the Habs had in my memory.
I don't get why Schultz doesn't get the same hate Radulov does. He screwed over the team that drafted him for his own gain, it shows a real lack of character.

That being said if the Habs signed Schultz I could care less about his character, I'll take it.

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06-26-2012, 12:09 AM
  #950
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What scares me the most is that we're raving about an idea of galchenyuk.

Look at Hudon for example or even Couturier last year. They had amazing rookie season but the year after their stock fell down and they had a lot difficulties maintaning their game. It could have happened to Galchenyuk but he didn't play so his stock coudn't fall.

Add to that the fact that when he played he was with Yakupov... An elite player that could still produce without Galchenyuk. Maybe our first round pick was leeching from Yaks the way Esposito was with Radulov.

Add to that the fact that he is really not that tall and not that big and we could really well instead of having a gem having a complete bust or become just another Eller...

I've never seen him play personally so I can't tell but from what I got he is still a risky pick even at 3 overall.

I still hope for the best and I trust Timmins but I'm still worried about that pick. Thrower and Collberg could be homeruns. Bozon seems like a good player too and I like the kind of guess we take with guys like Archambault and Hudon. Guys that definitively have talent but also some huge flaws that are fixable.

I think Brady Vail could turn out better than we think too. I think he could find some offence in his game and he seems like a really responsable kid.

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