How do you know Holland wasn't on the phones hundreds of times trying to make deals? Maybe the price was too high.
Because if he was, something would have gotten done.
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He did, he gave up a first for Quincey, and you haven't shut up about it since it happened.
Haha.
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What if it caused them to miss the playoffs entirely?
Not concerned. At the end of the day, the playoff streak is nice. But at the end of the season, I don't see a huge difference between finishing 9th and not winning the cup and finishing 5th and losing in Rd 1.
Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-26-2012 at 07:20 AM.
Reason: crap
Not concerned. At the end of the day, the playoff streak is nice. But at the end of the season, I don't see a huge difference between finishing 9th and not winning the cup and finishing 5th and losing in Rd 1.
The difference is that with the parity in the NHL, anyone can win the Cup if bounces and health go your way.
I like getting low-risk guys like Brunner.
I don't base my roster around them.
Signing Suter replaces Lidstrom. Now, we still need some tougness to replace Stuart. Semin replacing Hudler is an upgrade.
The bolded could also be accomplished at the deadline like they did in 08 when they had to replace Markov.
I think they roll with Ericsson and Quincey in the top 4 for the beginning of the season and see if those two defenseman entering their prime are ready for the next step. In Quincey's case, he's already handled being a top pairing guy in Colorado.
The bolded could also be accomplished at the deadline like they did in 08 when they had to replace Markov.
I think they roll with Ericsson and Quincey in the top 4 for the beginning of the season and see if those two defenseman entering their prime are ready for the next step. In Quincey's case, he's already handled being a top pairing guy in Colorado.
If Quincey was any good as a top pairing guy in Colorado, would they have traded him for Steve Downie?
Would they have sat him down as a health scratch.
IMO, Quincey and Smith are very similar players right now. Tall. Skate well. Love offense. Love to jump in. Lefthanded D on the Right Side.
The difference is that Quincey is 27 and plays hellish defense. Smith is 23 and should only get better.
If Quincey was any good as a top pairing guy in Colorado, would they have traded him for Steve Downie?
Would they have sat him down as a health scratch.
IMO, Quincey and Smith are very similar players right now. Tall. Skate well. Love offense. Love to jump in. Lefthanded D on the Right Side.
The difference is that Quincey is 27 and plays hellish defense. Smith is 23 and should only get better.
The problem is that Holland has to give Quincey a chance to play/benefit of the doubt after a full offseason/training camp. I think Quincey will be better next year, but it remains to be seen how much better.
What confuses me is how they weren't willing to give Smith time in DET last couple seasons due to how he could be developing with 20+ minutes a night in Grand Rapids, but in Detroit he'd only play 3rd pairing minutes... if the team goes into next season with Suter inked and of course Quincey back, that pushes Smith back to 3rd pairing minutes possibly... he already has some 15-ish games under his belt... we know what he can contribute... I don't understand it, that's all.
What confuses me is how they weren't willing to give Smith time in DET last couple seasons due to how he could be developing with 20+ minutes a night in Grand Rapids, but in Detroit he'd only play 3rd pairing minutes... if the team goes into next season with Suter inked and of course Quincey back, that pushes Smith back to 3rd pairing minutes possibly... he already has some 15-ish games under his belt... we know what he can contribute... I don't understand it, that's all.
Nothing is stopping Babcock from playing him more.
What confuses me is how they weren't willing to give Smith time in DET last couple seasons due to how he could be developing with 20+ minutes a night in Grand Rapids, but in Detroit he'd only play 3rd pairing minutes... if the team goes into next season with Suter inked and of course Quincey back, that pushes Smith back to 3rd pairing minutes possibly... he already has some 15-ish games under his belt... we know what he can contribute... I don't understand it, that's all.
I think no matter what happens next year every defenseman will earn every minute of ice time they get. Some nights Smith might get 20 minutes and some nights Quincey will. Smith will get all the ice time he needs.
If Quincey was any good as a top pairing guy in Colorado, would they have traded him for Steve Downie?
Would they have sat him down as a health scratch.
Downie is a pretty solid player. Quincey was the top defenseman in ice time and got the toughest assignments on their playoff team in 09-10 and last year and came out overall in those 2 years as a +8. I think he'll come back next year and surprise now that he has a whole off season to get acclimated to the Wings system and can play a lesser role more suited for him.
[/QUOTE]IMO, Quincey and Smith are very similar players right now. Tall. Skate well. Love offense. Love to jump in. Lefthanded D on the Right Side. The difference is that Quincey is 27 and plays hellish defense. Smith is 23 and should only get better.[/QUOTE]
Another difference is that Smith has only played sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing against the other teams worst offensive players. Quincey had been counted on to draw the assignment of defending the Datsyuk's, Sedin's and Thornton's of the world night in-night out while in Colorado and he has experience playing 2+ minutes a night on the PK.
Downie is a pretty solid player. Quincey was the top defenseman in ice time and got the toughest assignments on their playoff team in 09-10 and last year and came out overall in those 2 years as a +8. I think he'll come back next year and surprise now that he has a whole off season to get acclimated to the Wings system and can play a lesser role more suited for him.
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IMO, Quincey and Smith are very similar players right now. Tall. Skate well. Love offense. Love to jump in. Lefthanded D on the Right Side. The difference is that Quincey is 27 and plays hellish defense. Smith is 23 and should only get better.
Another difference is that Smith has only played sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing against the other teams worst offensive players. Quincey had been counted on to draw the assignment of defending the Datsyuk's, Sedin's and Thornton's of the world night in-night out while in Colorado and he has experience playing 2+ minutes a night on the PK.
Sort of and I feel very comfortable with Quincey being stuck out on a third pairing when line matching is happening. That is something that is a little underrated if he does wind up a 5th d-man.
But it should be noted during a couple of his games Kronwall played with Smith and they looked to be a decent pairing. I know one thing you best keep your head up if that is a pairing they wind up going with.
i am saying its an icnredible return for staal AND is a brillant long term move
if Holland were in the same situation with the same guys(crosby, malkin, letang, fleury) and managed to move a guy like filppula(who was redundant given the other talent on the team) for that type of incredible return and free'd up money to keep those superstars together you would be praising him as the second coming of christ himself.
sutter is not as good as staal today but he isconsidered one of the best young 3rd line centres in the league
Bolded: Based on what? I would be happy with a good return but at the same time would be worried how much that would help Detroit in the here and now, even if it gives us a boost for the future.
There are positives and negatives to just about every trade.
Plus, the only reason Staal got such a high return is because he is a second line center on just about every other team in the league, and even a #1 on some very weak teams at that position. Sutter is not as good as Staal (though a very good third line center which I won't argue), their prospect is just a prospect, and the 8th overall pick may not amount to being as good as they expect as quickly as they expect. And those last two players won't make an impact for a few years. Shero can take that short-term loss and turn it into a gain because their top two centers are so freaking good and young that he won't lose out on anything even if his third line center is less talented. Would Holland be able to have the same luxury if he flipped our second line center/winger with a third line center and prospects?
Just two comments.
1: It is much premature to praise Shero for creating that cap-room. The Staal trade was a great one considering that you could call it a distressed asset sale, what with Staal being quite clearly preferential to Carolina and just one year off UFA. IMO Shero then went and ****ed up by giving Michalek away for a pathetic return, as both Michalek and Martin can/could easily be moved after July 1st once Suter is off the boards. There are too many teams looking for top4 D-men, and the UFA class is too poor, for that to be a real problem. Michalek fits better with the other pieces we have coming up than Martin does, and fills more of a need for us, so I hated that trade. Might have been because Michalek really wanted to go back to Phoenix though. What is more - because you can go over the cap by 10% during the Summer - it was not a necessary move if we are talking about being able to offer both Suter and Parise attractive terms. There'd be lots of time to come compliant afterwards.
Hence I think Shero gets way too much praise for essentially giving away a bonafide top4 D-man with an agreeable contract.
2: The whole "won't have room for Sid" (and/or Malkin) thing is bizarre. Everyone knows that he (they) will take the same or close to the current 8.7. Even if it was a million or so more, that would mean much less as a percentage of the cap than when we signed the original 8.7 million dollar contract.
Sort of and I feel very comfortable with Quincey being stuck out on a third pairing when line matching is happening. That is something that is a little underrated if he does wind up a 5th d-man.
But it should be noted during a couple of his games Kronwall played with Smith and they looked to be a decent pairing. I know one thing you best keep your head up if that is a pairing they wind up going with.
If that is going to be a pair then both players really need to pick and choose their pinches well. If they miss then we are getting burned on an odd man rush. But I like it.
Just two comments.
1: It is much premature to praise Shero for creating that cap-room. The Staal trade was a great one considering that you could call it a distressed asset sale, what with Staal being quite clearly preferential to Carolina and just one year off UFA. IMO Shero then went and ****ed up by giving Michalek away for a pathetic return, as both Michalek and Martin can/could easily be moved after July 1st once Suter is off the boards. There are too many teams looking for top4 D-men, and the UFA class is too poor, for that to be a real problem. Michalek fits better with the other pieces we have coming up than Martin does, and fills more of a need for us, so I hated that trade. Might have been because Michalek really wanted to go back to Phoenix though. What is more - because you can go over the cap by 10% during the Summer - it was not a necessary move if we are talking about being able to offer both Suter and Parise attractive terms. There'd be lots of time to come compliant afterwards.
Hence I think Shero gets way too much praise for essentially giving away a bonafide top4 D-man with an agreeable contract.
2: The whole "won't have room for Sid" (and/or Malkin) thing is bizarre. Everyone knows that he (they) will take the same or close to the current 8.7. Even if it was a million or so more, that would mean much less as a percentage of the cap than when we signed the the original 8.7 million dollar contract.
Does everyone really know this I was thinking about this earlier, what makes people think Malkin will be an easy sale.
Guy has won a Cup, Conn Smythe, Hart Trophy, Art Ross. Lets say somebody gets real stupid in Russia after they maybe win gold and one of the KHL owners says here is 15 million tax free a year for 10 years. See unlike Ovie does Malkin have anything left to accomplish in the NHL? I think he will stay but his accomplishments make it interesting if a 10 year 150 million or higher offer was to make its way to him.
If that is going to be a pair then both players really need to pick and choose their pinches well. If they miss then we are getting burned on an odd man rush. But I like it.
I don't disagree but find it curious that was the first pair he wanted to experiment with all be it with White and Quincey not in the picture at the time. Smith and White are going to be on the right side and so is one of Quincey or Big E assuming they get a UFA d-man preferably Suter.
Big E could try and play the stay at home role for Kronwall, I don't know that I like it. I think it would also benefit Smith to play with a guy that talks a lot in Kronwall. Plus when Stuart first came over he was a little more mobile in my opinion and heavier in the hit department. I am not saying he doesn't do those things anymore, but found a lot of people pointing out Kronwall's errors last season also discounted the fact he expected Stuart to be in the right place to erase some of them and he didn't always live up to that either.
But as people referenced earlier Quincey also enjoys jumping in the play so if your choices are Smith/Quincey and Kronwall I like Babcock's initial thought of a Smith and Kronwall pairing. I also wonder if putting Big E with Suter will allow Big E to venture forward a little more he looks good when he activates but seems worried with what is happening behind him too often. When he was with Lidstrom you could see him trusting jumping in more. Suter has allowed Weber to do this flawlessly for years, there is nobody better at covering for an aggressive d-partner in the game than Suter.
Every word he has been saying about his future so far.
Wasn't getting hostile, just think it is intriguing to examine the Russian angle on a guy that has already accomplished so much.
Parise also wants to be a Devil and Suter wants to stay in Nashville. I know if I am Malkin and somebody offers me 50 million more dollars to play at home that is going to give me a long pause.
Remember reports had Kovy turning down larger offers from the KHL. Don't know if that was actually true but he has one of the biggest contracts in the NHL so if they beat that with a decent margin, makes me wonder what a billionaire owner in Russia might offer Malkin?
Geno and Pavel have very similar humble personalities.
If they had Ovechkin's personality, I'd be concerned. Geno and Pavel aren't the get plowed into the night drinking type of guys where money/spotlight/women drive who they are like other Russians who have caused issues in the past.
Wasn't getting hostile, just think it is intriguing to examine the Russian angle on a guy that has already accomplished so much.
Didn't want to snap. Its just one of those things where the risk is admittedly always there, but before you see any indication that it could be real, you don't really give it much thought.
Malkin is constantly going on about how he wants to win more cups and titles with Pittsburgh, drawing parallels with Pittsburgh and his home-town (both traditional steel/mining cities) etc.
If there was a hint of Primadonna in him, I would be worried because he can legit be better than Crosby. He is more gifted in many ways. But he gives every indication of a guy thinking that they can win more together than apart.
Geno and Pavel have very similar humble personalities.
If they had Ovechkin's personality, I'd be concerned. Geno and Pavel aren't the get plowed into the night drinking type of guys where money/spotlight/women drive who they are like other Russians who have caused issues in the past.
Yes they also rarely miss the chance to talk up Russia. Datsyuk will more than likely finish his career there it is whether he signs another couple years with Detroit first. I think Malkin probably wouldn't this early, but it wouldn't stun me in the least if he left earlier than some thought he would. I am sure the NHL has taken notice of this.
Worth pointing out that Jim Devellano calls it his best trade.
They shared responsibilities, but Devellano is also credited with killing the ill-fated Yzerman deal. Devellano recommended Bowman as coach in the first place. I know people love Scotty but I think his power can be greatly exaggerated by some when they look at Wings history. His other stops with big power have been up and down. He did have some control with Pittsburgh which was good. He was miserable in Buffalo and his advice doesn't seem to be going so great since he showed in Chicago. Where they have mismanaged the cap and made some very interesting personnel moves since the cup.
Genius coach, but front office guy? Think Babcock should keep this in mind.
Here's an article from the time the Primeau for Shanny trade looked to have been killed.
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Talking smack about Bowman's front office abilities? Really bad form there, bud. Chicago did win the Cup and showed remarkable improvement once Bowman was brought on board. Plus he deserves credit for other moves, notably bringing Vernon to Detroit. He's a far better coach than a GM and his desire to move Yzerman is questionable at best, but he was far from a disaster as a GM.
Last edited by doublejack: 06-26-2012 at 08:44 AM.
I dont see how Pitt could sign either one of Parise or Suter to a long term contract right now, unless they dont want to take care of their own players (Crosby Malkin) first.
I have been mocked for talking endlessly about acquiring Evander Kane.
I know it would cost roster players, picks and prospects. I also knew not many believed him to be available.
Lo and behold, he is available. With that said, do the Wings even have what the Jets need/want? Cant speak for that, dont know.
But thats what drives me crazy when I think about the Wings. You have to give to get. I have no loyalty to any player. Think about it for a moment.
This is a player that I would love to see a gamble on, what do you think it would take? Could we get him for Fil & Quincey? Maybe throw in a prospect also?
Personally I think the Jets would be charging a ton to get him but the kid is exciting and is going to be a star.
This is a player that I would love to see a gamble on, what do you think it would take? Could we get him for Fil & Quincey? Maybe throw in a prospect also?
Personally I think the Jets would be charging a ton to get him but the kid is exciting and is going to be a star.
After writing that post, its pretty clear the Jets want a 1B/2A center for Kane.
Think Joe Thornton, Getzlaf, Kesler, etc.
So, for the Wings, in a sort-of straight up deal, basically Zetterberg or Datsyuk.
Unless of course the Jets were real high on some prospect like Smith, would take the clear #2C in Flip and even throw in something else.
Like I said in the post, I have no idea if that works, but after reading the Jets board, the Wings would have to get a 3rd team involved (like Anaheim for Getzlaf). It would be complicated.
