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Leafs trade Schenn for JVR (Part II)

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Old
06-25-2012, 12:34 PM
  #76
91Kadri91
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Originally Posted by GalacticaActual View Post
No way would I lump Phaneuf in with Connolly or Komisarek. =/ The guy hasn't had much success here but he plays huge minutes and is one of the best open ice hitters in the game.
What?

All the poster said was the Dion was a top-10 pick, which is true.

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06-26-2012, 12:43 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
What?

All the poster said was the Dion was a top-10 pick, which is true.
I thought he was presenting as a counter-point to the other poster, providing three examples of very underwhelming top-10 picks. And so I meant that while Connolly and Komisarek are terrible, they shouldn't be lumped in with Phaneuf. If that's not what he meant, then I'm sorry.

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06-26-2012, 01:48 AM
  #78
BertCorbeau
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I wonder how JVR would fare with Kadri as a centre (eventually) .. Kadri's skill and playmaking ability has potential akin to Giroux's so there could be some good chemistry there.

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06-26-2012, 08:20 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
I wonder how JVR would fare with Kadri as a centre (eventually) .. Kadri's skill and playmaking ability has potential akin to Giroux's so there could be some good chemistry there.
You lost me there.... I dont hate kadri but he will never come close to Giroux

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06-26-2012, 08:23 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
I wonder how JVR would fare with Kadri as a centre (eventually) .. Kadri's skill and playmaking ability has potential akin to Giroux's so there could be some good chemistry there.
Kadri's deficiencies in his own end preclude him from playing centre in a top-6 role in the NHL. I do think we'll see a full season of Kadri this year, whether he's with us or another team remains to be seen.

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06-26-2012, 08:29 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JGardiner51 View Post
You lost me there.... I dont hate kadri but he will never come close to Giroux
Yeah there is not really a possibility that happens because Giroux is excellent defensively too.

I think Kadri is known for his playmaking abilities and that's what he meant to say.

If he can do all the things the Leafs wanted in the off season Carlyle might at least give him a chance to play center and prove himself before he shuts that door forever.

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06-26-2012, 08:34 AM
  #82
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Best trade!

Go Burke Go!

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06-26-2012, 03:06 PM
  #83
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Good trade, gives us something we need (more speed & more offense) and gets rid of something we don't need (slow defense-man) the fact we drafted Rielly made Schenn trad-able which says a lot about how much BB etc. have in Rielly for obvious reason's, so we basically lost nothing and gained more offense & forward depth (if JVR can stay healthy).

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06-26-2012, 04:00 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Gotti View Post
Good trade, gives us something we need (more speed & more offense) and gets rid of something we don't need (slow defense-man) the fact we drafted Rielly made Schenn trad-able which says a lot about how much BB etc. have in Rielly for obvious reason's, so we basically lost nothing and gained more offense & forward depth (if JVR can stay healthy).
Young defense men + inexperienced (poor) goalies = players traded. The return for the trade was (although JVR is a good player) the wrong piece. The young defense men will continue to underperform and regress in development until a true #1 goalie is in place. I feel too for Luke Schenn. The goalie circumstance in Philadelphia is not very good there either. He will continue to "appear" to struggle, while JVR will put up points in Toronto. On the surface, therefore, Toronto will look to have won the trade, when in reality it is only a function of poor goaltending. Burke is a smart guy, looking out for his interests. In any trade of Schenn, Burke was going to make certain Schenn went to a team with bad goalies, so that Schenn will continue to struggle. Hence, Burke appears to win the trade.

If Burke would have traded Schenn to Vancouver for Luongo, for example, Schenn would look a much better player, and move forward with his play. Burke would then look like he gave up too much for Luongo. Burke understands this "game" that is played in the trade market, and plays it often.

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06-26-2012, 04:11 PM
  #85
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^ Disagree

Schenn was simply not playing well but any standards not just a team with poor goaltending. Philly had stretches of excellent goaltending last year along with poor stretches. The rise and fall of Schenn will not be dictated through inconsistent goaltending but his continual struggles with skating, coughing up pucks and poor outlet passes.

He has a lot of room to improve and Pronger to help him get there, but JVR has a much higher ceiling than Schenn does or ever did.

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06-26-2012, 04:12 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Young defense men + inexperienced (poor) goalies = players traded. The return for the trade was (although JVR is a good player) the wrong piece. The young defense men will continue to underperform and regress in development until a true #1 goalie is in place. I feel too for Luke Schenn. The goalie circumstance in Philadelphia is not very good there either. He will continue to "appear" to struggle, while JVR will put up points in Toronto. On the surface, therefore, Toronto will look to have won the trade, when in reality it is only a function of poor goaltending. Burke is a smart guy, looking out for his interests. In any trade of Schenn, Burke was going to make certain Schenn went to a team with bad goalies, so that Schenn will continue to struggle. Hence, Burke appears to win the trade.

If Burke would have traded Schenn to Vancouver for Luongo, for example, Schenn would look a much better player, and move forward with his play. Burke would then look like he gave up too much for Luongo. Burke understands this "game" that is played in the trade market, and plays it often.
I agree with your first point that Schenn might have a hard time in Phili, but disagree with your second point about doing well in Vancouver. Both the Flyers and Canucks play a run-and-gun style of hockey. Schenn was awful under Wilson with that same style. He might do better on a team like the Devils or Rangers as they have a more defensive minded system.

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06-26-2012, 04:19 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Young defense men + inexperienced (poor) goalies = players traded. The return for the trade was (although JVR is a good player) the wrong piece. The young defense men will continue to underperform and regress in development until a true #1 goalie is in place. I feel too for Luke Schenn. The goalie circumstance in Philadelphia is not very good there either. He will continue to "appear" to struggle, while JVR will put up points in Toronto. On the surface, therefore, Toronto will look to have won the trade, when in reality it is only a function of poor goaltending. Burke is a smart guy, looking out for his interests. In any trade of Schenn, Burke was going to make certain Schenn went to a team with bad goalies, so that Schenn will continue to struggle. Hence, Burke appears to win the trade.

If Burke would have traded Schenn to Vancouver for Luongo, for example, Schenn would look a much better player, and move forward with his play. Burke would then look like he gave up too much for Luongo. Burke understands this "game" that is played in the trade market, and plays it often.
You started making sense, then you pulled out the tinfoil hat. You almost had me there.

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06-26-2012, 04:23 PM
  #88
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What happened to Mess?

He was such a level-headed, objective commentor and ever since the team nose-dived last year, he seems like he's totally written the team, coaching and management off.

I used to really respect the comments but lately it's been largely emotinal rhetoric.

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06-26-2012, 04:29 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
What happened to Mess?

He was such a level-headed, objective commentor and ever since the team nose-dived last year, he seems like he's totally written the team, coaching and management off.

I used to really respect the comments but lately it's been largely emotinal rhetoric.
wow really I felt like that about him ever since I joined haha

he never really changed!

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06-26-2012, 04:36 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
What happened to Mess?

He was such a level-headed, objective commentor and ever since the team nose-dived last year, he seems like he's totally written the team, coaching and management off.

I used to really respect the comments but lately it's been largely emotinal rhetoric.
Mess is one of the most intelligent and unbiased posters on here IMO. I find that half the board or more are either homers, drinking the koolaid, Burke lovers, making retarded trade proposals, MLSE employees, or just want to take about the last trade they made in NHL 2012. There is some quality sprinkled throughout, and Mess is certainly one of them.

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06-26-2012, 04:37 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
You started making sense, then you pulled out the tinfoil hat. You almost had me there.
I need that hat; December 21, 2012 is coming, and the Giant Aliens.

Goalies make defense men look better than they really are, or they make defense men look worse than they really are. (Unless we are referring to great defense men, of which Toronto has none.) Toronto, over the last few years, has had very poor goalies. Without a change in that position, the defense men in Toronto will continue to "appear" to be playing poorly.

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06-26-2012, 04:43 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
I agree with your first point that Schenn might have a hard time in Phili, but disagree with your second point about doing well in Vancouver. Both the Flyers and Canucks play a run-and-gun style of hockey. Schenn was awful under Wilson with that same style. He might do better on a team like the Devils or Rangers as they have a more defensive minded system.
Schenn will play well in front of a true #1 goalie. He is not any worse of a player than Kevin Bieksa, and yet Bieksa is considered a top pair shut-down player.

A system of play which requires defense, like you say, is contingent upon the goalie stopping a high percentage of first chances from poor angles. Toronto cannot play this system, because the goalie will not allow it.

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06-26-2012, 04:46 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Komodo View Post
Mess is one of the most intelligent and unbiased posters on here IMO. I find that half the board or more are either homers, drinking the koolaid, Burke lovers, making retarded trade proposals, MLSE employees, or just want to take about the last trade they made in NHL 2012. There is some quality sprinkled throughout, and Mess is certainly one of them.
The word retarded, in your context, has negative connotation. Perhaps we should use it in its proper context to avoid the unintended insult?

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06-26-2012, 05:06 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post


Anybody with some free time should watch these highlights from game 2 of the second round against Boston in 2011. This is the game I fell in love with JVR's skillset. Every time his skates hit the ice, there was a scoring opportunity caused by his great speed and long reach. I love his nose for the net, how he does not shy away from going to the gritty areas in front of the net searching for pucks.

Very happy with this transaction.
Watched it. JVR was a beast this entire game. Scores a lot of dirty goals it seems.

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06-26-2012, 05:48 PM
  #95
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starting to like the look of a JvR-Grabo-Kulie line. Could be difficult to handle and has the potential for some goals.

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06-26-2012, 06:12 PM
  #96
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as of now why not..

Lupul-Connolly-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Frattin
Kadri-Bozak-Kulemin
Brown-Steckel-Army

Leaves MacA,Lombardi, Rosehill, Crabb, Komarov as extras

Connolly has skill, just hopefully no more injuries and can get some chemistry with Lupul and Kessel

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06-26-2012, 06:28 PM
  #97
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I don't quite understand why people blaming Wilson's style for Schenn's struggles feel that he's going to do better in Philly. Flyers play an open game, much like the Leafs but the biggest difference is that the Flyers overall have a greater skillset on their roster to make their style of play successful while the Leafs simply didn't have the wheels to keep it going. In Philly, Schenn will be surrounded by a fast skating team that is high risk, high reward, much like the Leafs were under Wilson. If Schenn finds success in Philly, I think it would be more likely due to getting over a slump, making adjustments to his game or simply a change in scenery motivating him rather than it being a matter of Wilson vs Lavi's style.

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06-26-2012, 07:03 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I don't quite understand why people blaming Wilson's style for Schenn's struggles feel that he's going to do better in Philly. Flyers play an open game, much like the Leafs but the biggest difference is that the Flyers overall have a greater skillset on their roster to make their style of play successful while the Leafs simply didn't have the wheels to keep it going. In Philly, Schenn will be surrounded by a fast skating team that is high risk, high reward, much like the Leafs were under Wilson. If Schenn finds success in Philly, I think it would be more likely due to getting over a slump, making adjustments to his game or simply a change in scenery motivating him rather than it being a matter of Wilson vs Lavi's style.
I also don't get it. It seems like that everybody's basically saying Schenn will rebound because Philly is going to insulate him better, but the Flyers play a go go go style of offense too. Look at how they were trading goals for goals with the Penguins in April. Schenn will probably benefit from having Timonen, Pronger and company to learn from, but if he's supposed to be better by being better protected, he's basically playing behind a speedy run and gun team and a mercurial goalie in Bryzgalov.

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06-26-2012, 07:13 PM
  #99
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Schenn played well in rons system last year.
Schenn played very poorly in ron's system this year. He also played poorly with Carlyle.

I think it is just because schenn played poorly.

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06-26-2012, 07:23 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I also don't get it. It seems like that everybody's basically saying Schenn will rebound because Philly is going to insulate him better, but the Flyers play a go go go style of offense too. Look at how they were trading goals for goals with the Penguins in April. Schenn will probably benefit from having Timonen, Pronger and company to learn from, but if he's supposed to be better by being better protected, he's basically playing behind a speedy run and gun team and a mercurial goalie in Bryzgalov.
If anything it will be the change of scenery. His brother there will help, but I agree, the flyers are a more successful version of a Wilson coached team. Some more vets on there, but the system won't be what improves his play. I think he will bounce back and be the player he was in his rookie season. That was a pretty good version of Luke. And that would make this a pretty even trade if JVR is healthy.

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