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06-26-2012, 08:15 PM
  #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Sort of like Regehr?
Yes...

I assume you think that's a criticism

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06-26-2012, 08:17 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Yes...

I assume you think that's a criticism
No, it's a point.

What will Doan bring in terms of leadership that Regehr didn't and how will that leadership make the Sabres a better team?

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06-26-2012, 08:23 PM
  #978
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Doan was a better NHL player than anyone on the roster has ever been... He's a real captain not a default choice like Poms, and what he says should carry weight in the locker room...

Regher should too, but he seems too soft spoken.

But honestly, if they brought in Doan, and it DIDN'T effect the team in a positive way (no 10-15 game stretches of awful lazy hockey) then they are a lost cause anyway.

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06-26-2012, 08:27 PM
  #979
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Ideal mock-off-season:

Trade Ville Leino to the Avs for a 2013 5th round pick.

Trade Jordan Leopold to the Oilers for a 2013 2nd round pick.

Re-sign Tyler Ennis to a 2 year, 5 million dollar contract.

Sign Zach Parise to a 8 year, 64 million dollar contract.

Sign Dustin Penner to a 2 year, 5 million dollar contract.

Sign Shane Doan to a 3 year, 12 million dollar contract.

Cody McCormick to AHL.

Parise - Hodgson - Pominville (Hopefully Hodgson can improve next year, and playing with these players wouldn't hurt either.)

Vanek - Roy - Doan (A line with a little bit of everything, scoring, speed, grit/leadership. A solid line in their own zone, too)

Foligno - Ennis - Stafford (A perfect sheltered scoring line, should put up big numbers against a teams second or third defensive pairing.)

Penner - Adam - Kaleta (Penner seems like a bit of a misfit here, but Lindy likes to shuffle the lines and depending on who is in his doghouse they could shift with Penner here. He had a horrid regular season but really came along in the playoffs. At 2 years its a small risk to take. Adam hopefully can get his act together and contribute in limited minutes.)

x Gerbe, Ellis

Myers - Sekera
McNabb - Ehrhoff
Sulzer - Regehr

x Weber

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06-26-2012, 08:28 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Doan was a better NHL player than anyone on the roster has ever been... He's a real captain not a default choice like Poms, and what he says should carry weight in the locker room...

Regher should too, but he seems too soft spoken.

But honestly, if they brought in Doan, and it DIDN'T effect the team in a positive way (no 10-15 game stretches of awful lazy hockey) then they are a lost cause anyway.
You guys are making Shane Doan out to be the 2nd coming of Mark Messier.

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06-26-2012, 08:28 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
What's the deal with the over 35 stuff?

Could we sign him 4 years 15 million with 12 over the first 2 years, then have a manageable deal for the final 2, or is that part of the over 35 thing?
Under the current CBA, when a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up. That means signing Doan to a contract he likely wants (ie - at least three years) is a big gamble if his body and game breaks down and/or decides to retire.

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06-26-2012, 08:29 PM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
No, it's a point.

What will Doan bring in terms of leadership that Regehr didn't and how will that leadership make the Sabres a better team?
Leadership never comes from one guy. The Sabres could very obviously use another guy like Regehr in terms of veteran leadership. On top of that Doan plays a gritty power game and has been a shoe-in for a minimal 20 goals and 50 points. Let's not pretend the Sabres couldn't use those 50 points.

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06-26-2012, 08:30 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Doan was a better NHL player than anyone on the roster has ever been... He's a real captain not a default choice like Poms, and what he says should carry weight in the locker room...

Regher should too, but he seems too soft spoken.

But honestly, if they brought in Doan, and it DIDN'T effect the team in a positive way (no 10-15 game stretches of awful lazy hockey) then they are a lost cause anyway.
Ryan Miller has been better than Shane Doan. That whole winning the Vezina thing...

Don't get me wrong I would love to get Doan, but if it's costing us more than 3.5 million a year I'll pass. Saying that he was better than anyone on this roster has ever been is nuts though.

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06-26-2012, 08:31 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Cannonball0828 View Post
Ideal mock-off-season:

Trade Ville Leino to the Avs for a 2013 5th round pick.

Trade Jordan Leopold to the Oilers for a 2013 2nd round pick.

Re-sign Tyler Ennis to a 2 year, 5 million dollar contract.

Sign Zach Parise to a 8 year, 64 million dollar contract.

Sign Dustin Penner to a 2 year, 5 million dollar contract.

Sign Shane Doan to a 3 year, 12 million dollar contract.

Cody McCormick to AHL.

Parise - Hodgson - Pominville (Hopefully Hodgson can improve next year, and playing with these players wouldn't hurt either.)

Vanek - Roy - Doan (A line with a little bit of everything, scoring, speed, grit/leadership. A solid line in their own zone, too)

Foligno - Ennis - Stafford (A perfect sheltered scoring line, should put up big numbers against a teams second or third defensive pairing.)

Penner - Adam - Kaleta (Penner seems like a bit of a misfit here, but Lindy likes to shuffle the lines and depending on who is in his doghouse they could shift with Penner here. He had a horrid regular season but really came along in the playoffs. At 2 years its a small risk to take. Adam hopefully can get his act together and contribute in limited minutes.)

x Gerbe, Ellis

Myers - Sekera
McNabb - Ehrhoff
Sulzer - Regehr

x Weber
Why are we signing penner for our 4th line? Gerbe is a better 4th liner anyways, and adam as 4th line center? And leino being traded for an asset?

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Old
06-26-2012, 08:31 PM
  #985
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I'm all for a gritty 50, but not for a gamble on what might become a limpy 30 for a couple more seasons with a guaranteed cap hit.

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Old
06-26-2012, 08:31 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Doan was a better NHL player than anyone on the roster has ever been... He's a real captain not a default choice like Poms, and what he says should carry weight in the locker room...

Regher should too, but he seems too soft spoken.

But honestly, if they brought in Doan, and it DIDN'T effect the team in a positive way (no 10-15 game stretches of awful lazy hockey) then they are a lost cause anyway.
Looking back at the team he's captained... it isn't exactly a paragon of success. Phoenix has gone through terrible stretches over the last 8 NHL seasons. Just because he plays a physical game on the ice doesn't necessarily make him a stud in the 'room.

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06-26-2012, 08:33 PM
  #987
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I'd much prefer to pay up and sign Ryan to a 10 year banger.

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06-26-2012, 08:35 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Doan was a better NHL player than anyone on the roster has ever been... He's a real captain not a default choice like Poms, and what he says should carry weight in the locker room...

Regher should too, but he seems too soft spoken.

But honestly, if they brought in Doan, and it DIDN'T effect the team in a positive way (no 10-15 game stretches of awful lazy hockey) then they are a lost cause anyway.
Vanek has outscored Doan by 15 points in 30 less games since the lockout. That's the start of Vanek's career and Doan's prime/early decline. Pominville is 6 points behind in 10 less games. Roy is 29 points behind in 50 less games. He's not some messiah of a talent.

Regarding his captaincy, I wasn't aware you played for the Coyotes in the late 90s. I'm sure you all had much better reasons for voting Doan than the Sabres did voting Poms.

Beyond that, I'm wondering if you can hook me up with the locker room vids so I can tell who really carries weight with the team. It's a nice resource for claims like yours.

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06-26-2012, 08:36 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
You guys are making Shane Doan out to be the 2nd coming of Mark Messier.
No... But he's a legitimate NHL vet leader who was a hell of a player in his prime and is still playing at a high level AND he's still hungry.

I don't see how a guy like this could hurt, particularly on a team that lacks leadership.

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06-26-2012, 08:36 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Why are we signing penner for our 4th line? Gerbe is a better 4th liner anyways, and adam as 4th line center? And leino being traded for an asset?
I feel as if Gerbe is just too small to play consistently in the NHL. He has had his share of injuries, and last year his production went down. We need more size in our lineup, so Penner fits in well there. Like I said, he would likely move up throughout the course of the games. Why not Adam as a 4th line center? In this scenario we wouldn't have much cap space to sign an UFA center and there's nobody else to occupy that spot besides Matt Ellis. Also, Avs might be looking to hit the salary floor and Leino could help them do that. Despite how much we badmouth him, he could still serve as an effective 3rd line winger. We just hate him because we expected him to come in and solve our center problems and he failed miserably.

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06-26-2012, 08:40 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by captaincrunch89 View Post
Ryan Miller has been better than Shane Doan. That whole winning the Vezina thing...

Don't get me wrong I would love to get Doan, but if it's costing us more than 3.5 million a year I'll pass. Saying that he was better than anyone on this roster has ever been is nuts though.
Meh... Miller is OK... But I was more thinking skaters, not goalies if you wanna get technical....

But who among the skaters was a better all around hockey player with intangibles.... Definite top 6 player, with physicality and leadership.... He was Bobby Ryan for 10 years before Bobby Ryan was Bobby Ryan....

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06-26-2012, 08:41 PM
  #992
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I don't want an aging Shane Doan and I'll leave it at that.

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06-26-2012, 08:42 PM
  #993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannonball0828 View Post
I feel as if Gerbe is just too small to play consistently in the NHL. He has had his share of injuries, and last year his production went down. We need more size in our lineup, so Penner fits in well there. Like I said, he would likely move up throughout the course of the games. Why not Adam as a 4th line center? In this scenario we wouldn't have much cap space to sign an UFA center and there's nobody else to occupy that spot besides Matt Ellis. Also, Avs might be looking to hit the salary floor and Leino could help them do that. Despite how much we badmouth him, he could still serve as an effective 3rd line winger. We just hate him because we expected him to come in and solve our center problems and he failed miserably.
I think his production went down mainly because he was, for most of the year, playing on a true checking line. He performed well on that line defensively while still chipping in offensively. He still has upside offensively and a lot of it is just on the role he's given. I do think that, unfortunately, he's probably going to end up being the odd man out over the next couple seasons, but I'm certainly not rooting for it and I'm not counting him out.

Adam is not a bottom 6 player much less a bottom 6 center. If you're going to put him on the 4th line you may as well trade him or keep him in Rochester. He may be big but that's not his game at all: he's a shooter.

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06-26-2012, 08:43 PM
  #994
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There is more to being a complete hockey player than scoring... Poms is a nice player but he's such a sOft spoken guy.... And Ruff named him captain, it wasn't a player vote.

Doan and his leadership are legendary.... Quit being ridiculous.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Vanek has outscored Doan by 15 points in 30 less games since the lockout. That's the start of Vanek's career and Doan's prime/early decline. Pominville is 6 points behind in 10 less games. Roy is 29 points behind in 50 less games. He's not some messiah of a talent.

Regarding his captaincy, I wasn't aware you played for the Coyotes in the late 90s. I'm sure you all had much better reasons for voting Doan than the Sabres did voting Poms.

Beyond that, I'm wondering if you can hook me up with the locker room vids so I can tell who really carries weight with the team. It's a nice resource for claims like yours.

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06-26-2012, 08:44 PM
  #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Doan was a better NHL player than anyone on the roster has ever been... He's a real captain not a default choice like Poms, and what he says should carry weight in the locker room...

Regher should too, but he seems too soft spoken.

But honestly, if they brought in Doan, and it DIDN'T effect the team in a positive way (no 10-15 game stretches of awful lazy hockey) then they are a lost cause anyway.
Slow down a second. Doan is a good player, but he's nothing special. In 17 NHL seasons, he's only had two 70 point seasons. Roy, Vanek and Pominville have all had more productive seasons then Doan has ever had. His longevity and consistancy are his best attributes, and he's a true pro, but he's not what this team needs unless he's willing to play a much reduced role. We ought to be looking elsewhere.

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06-26-2012, 08:48 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
I think his production went down mainly because he was, for most of the year, playing on a true checking line. He performed well on that line defensively while still chipping in offensively. He still has upside offensively and a lot of it is just on the role he's given. I do think that, unfortunately, he's probably going to end up being the odd man out over the next couple seasons, but I'm certainly not rooting for it and I'm not counting him out.

Adam is not a bottom 6 player much less a bottom 6 center. If you're going to put him on the 4th line you may as well trade him or keep him in Rochester. He may be big but that's not his game at all: he's a shooter.
Is Ellis that much better as a 4th line center? Or is it moreso that you think playing on the 4th line would stunt Adam's development?

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06-26-2012, 08:49 PM
  #997
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Slow down a second. Doan is a good player, but he's nothing special. In 17 NHL seasons, he's only had two 70 point seasons. Roy, Vanek and Pominville have all had more productive seasons then Doan has ever had. His longevity and consistancy are his best attributes, and he's a true pro, but he's not what this team needs unless he's willing to play a much reduced role. We ought to be looking elsewhere.
How are consistency, physical play, hitting, leadership and accountability not EXACTLY what this team needs.... Our "core" are the floaters... Our biggest effort comes from our youngest players... Let's foster that.


If Foligno, Ennis, etc look to Derek Roy for leadership i'm scared for the future.

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06-26-2012, 08:51 PM
  #998
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Is Ellis that much better as a 4th line center? Or is it moreso that you think playing on the 4th line would stunt Adam's development?
I actually think he is. Until he proves otherwise, Adam is a bad 4th line center. On top of that, yea, it's no good for his development.

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06-26-2012, 08:54 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
There is more to being a complete hockey player than scoring... Poms is a nice player but he's such a sOft spoken guy.... And Ruff named him captain, it wasn't a player vote.

Doan and his leadership are legendary.... Quit being ridiculous.
Doan's leadership is "legendary" now?

Like I said....2nd coming of Mark messier.

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06-26-2012, 08:57 PM
  #1000
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There is more to being a complete hockey player than scoring... Poms is a nice player but he's such a sOft spoken guy.... And Ruff named him captain, it wasn't a player vote.
Your #1W's primary role is to score. And Sakic was soft spoken too, what a chump.



Quote:
Doan and his leadership are legendary.... Quit being ridiculous.
I don't like to be derisive, but this is the most ridiculous hyperbole I've seen on this board all year. And Jame posts about Roy a *lot*.

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