Hey kings fans, congrats on the cup and pumping us in the first round. I was reading an article the other day that said Clifford was one of the players that Mike Gillis had on his list of players he would trade Hodgson for. I had no idea that Clifford was considered a good prospect or had offensive upside, I didn't know much about him and just assumed we was a 3rd / 4th line fighter who could chip in a few points. I was wondering if someone could fill me in on his upside and if his concussions have hurt his value.
The band-waggoners will try to tell you that Dwight King is superior!
King and Clifford are both dangerous players on the ice who at times can show 2nd line scoring ability while playing against the opponent's bottom six and also physically punish you on the ice. It's just that Clifford had a much longer track record of doing it compared to King. I think it also matters less who Clifford's line mates are, you'll get the same from him.
An one bad year which happened to be his sophomore year and people turn thei back on Clifford. The Big red dog is going nowhere unless it's for an upgrade.
Clifford had an up and down season. More down than up though. He needs to come back even stronger if he wants a spot. He has the tools and the right attitude. I don't harp on his back like a lot of fans do. I do expect him to have a better season. He finishes his checks, has the energy... basically a lot of things you would want for your 3rd or 4th liner. As points go.. I can see him with around 30.. with 10 goals. Even though that's not the most important part of his game.
I don't see him getting traded anytime soon. At least I hope not. The Kings wouldn't get anything substantial back and it would be stupid to throw him away for a pick.
And the real fans will tell you that he is superior also. IMO King > Clifford right now. And I'm not a band wagoner. Clifford needs to figure himself out.
That's just it though ... and is "Capn Brown's" point ... everyone said the same thing after last years playoffs about Clifford and Simmonds, how Clifford was going to be so great that he made Simmonds expendable, and now he has a down season, and King comes along and has a strong showing and everyone jumps on the "next big thing band wagon" ... King MIGHT be better in the end, who knows, Dwight is 22 and had the advantage of getting some AHL experience before being brought into the Kings pro fold ... while Clifford is 21 (though there's about a year and half age difference) and some would argue was rushed into the line-up too soon. But then you have to ask yourself, WHY was Clifford rushed into the NHL ahead of Dwight, was it because the Kings Staff thought HE had the higher upside ? NOT saying I know ... just saying I don't think anyone can say they do based off a few months of play from Dwight King at the NHL level.
He obviously regressed this season, hopefully he can bounce back. I've been saying since the beginning of this season that time in Manchester can really help Clifford.
King and Clifford are both dangerous players on the ice who at times can show 2nd line scoring ability while playing against the opponent's bottom six and also physically punish you on the ice. It's just that Clifford had a much longer track record of doing it compared to King. I think it also matters less who Clifford's line mates are, you'll get the same from him.
Clifford has never shown second line scoring ability. In 27 NHL games King was able to match Clifford's best scoring season.
If Clifford spends time in the AHL, maybe he'll come back with more scoring ability, but it isn't the case at the moment.
Last edited by Live in the Now: 06-27-2012 at 02:06 AM.
Reason: ...
I said it before either of them played a game in the NHL and I will say it again.
Clifford = solid gritty 3rd liner with some slightly better than average offencive upside who can fight, score a clutch goal here and there and be a pest in his own end.
King = solid utility LW who is capable of scoring in the 20/20 range but will never wow you with his skating. He is more of a utility forward 3/2 liner than anything else but his size and better than average hands make him imo a guy who will make it in the NHL given the chance.
That's what I said about both of them before they made it and so far so good.
I'm worried about Clifford's concussions That's about it. Otherwise, it's kind of a strange comparison between Clifford and King. Clifford has great crash-the-net upside and he's getting better in the corners, but you can tell he's lost his fearlessness.
I am definitely pro Cliffy bandwagon, and Gillis comments tell you why. Clifford posses the rarest of skill sets in the game, he is a big guy and (imo) has 20-20 potential and can protect himself and his teammates. As we have seen the past 2 playoffs with goons on their way out (thankfully), team toughness is becoming more and more vital. If at anytime you can have a guy that can score and protect other players on the ice he is infinitely valuable. With Nolan/Cliffy/Greene/Richards etc etc always on the ice the other team is always on their heels.
Outside of a few garbage games where the Kings were protecting nice game/series leads the Kings really weren't forced to "push back" (physically)...if the West starts getting some series like the Pens/Flyers/B's have had in the past, guys like this become important. I could easily see a series like this unfolding next year vs Van/St. Louis/Chicago...
Edit: Forgot, search some post series threads from last year, if you wanna see what the "what have you done for me lately crowd" use to think. The same people probably hated King his first call up, hated AMart, and thought JDub was a waste of a young player and a 2nd....
One of the biggest things that I have noticed with Clifford is he has no poise when handling the puck. This aspect imo hasn't improved in two seasons. A lot of times when he get's a puck in our zone he seems rushed and nervous which leads to a lot of his turnovers.
Really don't think you can say one is better than the either right now. Both have had one great season (and Kings' wasn't even a full season.) Will be interesting to see who outperforms who in camp.
That said, both of them are great pieces for any team to have. Powerful 3/4 line grinders right now with potential (though not probable) second line upside. Nolan is a step behind either but still has potential.
I personally prefer Clifford and think he had a case of the sophomores.
Alot of people think he regress I honestly think its more he like all kings just had a down year. I also dont think he would be served by going down. Hes still really young and has upside to be on the left side of carter and richards in a few years when hes added a few pounds and figured a few more things out. He honestly didnt have the best linemates to show his offensive upside. I think if he gets better linemates a 20 goal 40 point season while protecting his linemates isnt out of the question in a few years.
The tools are there, but the toolbox needs work. He's still very raw and was the youngest player on the Kings. He'll be a force if he continues to work hard and refines his game.
In a perfect world, King is a third line defensive winger who can chip in the occasional goal. Clifford is a fourth line physical/energy player who plays one of the most honest to goodness games of hockey every night.
I love Clifford. He had a down year. However, I think his style of play is more suited in that role. He'll drop the gloves, but he's not a goon by any means.
It's hard to say whether or not the concussions have had an impact on his play, since he didn't play much in the playoffs since the hit against Vancouver. He's had two concussions already in two years with the Kings, so there's a bit of a legitimate concern.
He does chip in a goal on occasion, and when told to crash the net, will do it with enthusiasm... however, I don't think he's someone who you should rely on to score.
King was one goal shy of the rookie goal scoring record in the post season.
You're right ... Dwight King had FIVE goals in 20 play-off games this season ... and Kyle Clifford had THREE goals in 6 play-off games last season against the Sharks
Like I said ... for MOST of you on these boards, this time last year it was all about how Kyle Clifford was going to be our new 2nd line Goal scoring Winger saviour. This year it's Dwight King ... proof, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
- As I've said before, in the next 2 years he'll find a scoring touch and will fight for a top 6 spot.
- It's still very early and he is quite young, but his progress is showing the makings of a future captain - a Shane Doan type.
- Leading the Kings and all rookies in Scoring so far in the playoffs. 3G, 2A I can't complain.
- To me, 20 goals isn't so far fetched, even under TM's system. Clifford is finally playing with some players that have some skills and more importantly, speed in Richardson.
You're right ... Dwight King had FIVE goals in 20 play-off games this season ... and Kyle Clifford had THREE goals in 6 play-off games last season against the Sharks
Like I said ... for MOST of you on these boards, this time last year it was all about how Kyle Clifford was going to be our new 2nd line Goal scoring Winger saviour. This year it's Dwight King ... proof, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
The difference is that King put some years down in manch to develop his game whereas Clifford did not.
Clifford could use a half a season or so down in manch to develop his game but it's not a terrible thing if he played 4LW here with the kings.
I'm not arguing that ... in fact I tend to agree with it, read my post #8 above ... what I'm pointing out is how last year CLIFFORD was SUPERMAN, and this year it's KING. It's why FAN's shouldn't judge a player on only a handful of games or even one exceptionally good or one horribly poor season of play.
I'm not arguing that ... in fact I tend to agree with it, read my post #8 above ... what I'm pointing out is how last year CLIFFORD was SUPERMAN, and this year it's KING. It's why FAN's shouldn't judge a player on only a handful of games or even one exceptionally good or one horribly poor season of play.
That sentence sounds reeeeeeaaaaaaally familiar to me............
That sentence sounds reeeeeeaaaaaaally familiar to me............
Oh I'm sorry, did I forget the copyright ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U
It's why FAN's shouldn't judge a player on only a handful of games or even one exceptionally good or one horribly poor season of play. all words and likeness to words used in the above sentence are copyright and the intelectual property of Tonellisghost, so give him credit.
I'm not arguing that ... in fact I tend to agree with it, read my post #8 above ... what I'm pointing out is how last year CLIFFORD was SUPERMAN, and this year it's KING. It's why FAN's shouldn't judge a player on only a handful of games or even one exceptionally good or one horribly poor season of play.
While I agree that some fans do go overboard with Clifford last year and King this year, Clifford only had his hot streak when he was paired with Simmonds and Richie. Take that line combo away and he had a so-so season. King was consistent throughout the entire playoffs whether playing 2nd line or 3rd, and just looks more polished.
NOT saying I know ... just saying I don't think anyone can say they do based off a few months of play from Dwight King at the NHL level.
That's about it. Otherwise, it's kind of a strange comparison between Clifford and King. Clifford has great crash-the-net upside and he's getting better in the corners, but you can tell he's lost his fearlessness.
... and Kyle Clifford had THREE goals in 6 play-off games last season against the Sharks 
This year it's Dwight King ... proof, the more things change, the more they stay the same. 
all words and likeness to words used in the above sentence are copyright and the intelectual property of Tonellisghost, so give him credit. 
