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Sens Board Prospect Rankings 2012 (1st)

View Poll Results: Vote for our #1 Prospect!
Robin Lehner 19 9.90%
Stefan Noesen 2 1.04%
Jakob Silfverberg 101 52.60%
Mark Stone 6 3.13%
Matt Puempel 1 0.52%
Shane Prince 0 0%
Mika Zibanejad 57 29.69%
Cody Ceci 3 1.56%
Patrick Wiercioch 0 0%
Mark Borowiecki 0 0%
Andre Petersson 0 0%
Stephane Da Costa 0 0%
Jim O'Brien 1 0.52%
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 0 0%
Derek Grant 2 1.04%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-27-2012, 03:25 AM
  #126
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantEggRoll View Post
Prospects are prospects until they prove something, so therefore this season Jakob Silfverberg deserves to be the number one prospect because he proved the most this season. I love Zibanejad's game and I hope he'll be a great player, but besides winning the WJC and getting concussed he has done nothing to prove he is the best prospect in Ottawa's system. Regardless of their differences in age right now Silfverberg is the best bet to make the Ottawa roster.

Potential is great and all, but when I'm rating these players I'm going to base it on performance.
He made the NHL team and played like a man as a boy against NHL'ers. As one of the people who wanted him to be sent back to the SEL, his only real deficiency was being unable to create offense in the best league in the world at 18yo. He easily could have played on our 3rd line for much of the season, but it was best for him/us for him to develop his offensive game in a lesser league. That didn't quite work out as well as hoped, but he still outproduced Silfverberg at the same age quite handily:

Zibanejad = 26-5-8-13
Silfverberg = 48-8-8-16

... and Zibanejad was actually 6 months younger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WantEggRoll View Post
O'Brien had an excellent year in the AHL, and proved he could serve as a bottom six player at the end of the season, so yeah I'd rank him highly amongst the young players. I'd still rank younger players who did very well in junior leagues higher if I felt they had more potential to be top line players though. Performance counts regardless of the level of play, but I'm not going to rate Zibanejad as the best prospect just because he was selected in the highest position.
Zibanejad played what? A dozen games that were televised between pre-season and regular season?
He showed that he has outstanding tools, an excellent work ethic, very tough and though it's extremely premature; he looks like he might be a pretty smart player.

He showed all of that in the NHL... as an 18 year old.
IMO, Zibanejad looks like he'll fall somewhere amongst the Fisher/D.Brown/Backes group of extremely valuable all round players.

Silfverberg had a great SEL season as a 21yo. Alfredsson didn't that and Zibanejad may never have that season if we left him there that long. It is irrelevant to his NHL career prospects. It's exciting, don't get me wrong... but it won't definitively prove that he's a better potential player. Alexei Kaigorodov was 21yo when he finished 2nd in KHL scoring during the lockout year when he was competing against many NHL'ers and his NHL career will stand with a 6-0-1-1 line.

Silfverberg looked physically overmatched in the playoffs, but that series was quite physical. He didn't create a lot of offense, but he only got 2 games against the #1 team in the EC. He doesn't look like he'll hurt us over extended play, but he certainly didn't seem to have any dominant characteristics either. We'll get a better idea of his potential next season when he gets a regular rotation of teams, but just going but what I've seen... the easily visible qualities (tools, work ethic, toughness) are so overwhelmingly in Zibanejad's favour, that I can't imagine anybody picturing Silfverberg being better in the NHL.

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06-27-2012, 07:01 AM
  #127
Cujomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He made the NHL team and played like a man as a boy against NHL'ers. As one of the people who wanted him to be sent back to the SEL, his only real deficiency was being unable to create offense in the best league in the world at 18yo. He easily could have played on our 3rd line for much of the season, but it was best for him/us for him to develop his offensive game in a lesser league. That didn't quite work out as well as hoped, but he still outproduced Silfverberg at the same age quite handily:

Zibanejad = 26-5-8-13
Silfverberg = 48-8-8-16

... and Zibanejad was actually 6 months younger.
Again...completely different situations with teams that handle young players differently. Zibanejad got premium PP time and ES time while Silfverberg did not.

Quote:
Zibanejad played what? A dozen games that were televised between pre-season and regular season?
He showed that he has outstanding tools, an excellent work ethic, very tough and though it's extremely premature; he looks like he might be a pretty smart player.
I don't think at any point he showed that he had a high hockey IQ or that he was a 'pretty smart player.' He made a few nice plays, and he played well defensively, but offensively he looked lost...a lot. On top of which he tended to take shifts off maybe due to endurance issues. He is a very toolsy player but as has been seen about a million times...toolsy players don't always find a way to put it all together.

Quote:
He showed all of that in the NHL... as an 18 year old.
IMO, Zibanejad looks like he'll fall somewhere amongst the Fisher/D.Brown/Backes group of extremely valuable all round players.
He could definitely fall somewhere in there. But I will take someone more comparable to Eriksson or even Alfredsson over Fisher or Backes.

Quote:
Silfverberg had a great SEL season as a 21yo. Alfredsson didn't that and Zibanejad may never have that season if we left him there that long. It is irrelevant to his NHL career prospects. It's exciting, don't get me wrong... but it won't definitively prove that he's a better potential player.
While Zibanejad has great tools so does Silfverberg, and that's very evident from his play in the SEL and even in the short 2 game stint in the NHL. His accomplishments on top of his tools show that he's been working and he's been capable of utilizing them. Will he be able to translate that success into the NHL? Who knows, but it's easier to project someone to have success when they are coming from success than to just assume someone will be successful because we drafted him high. Zibanejad has never been dominant at any level -- not ever. He hasn't dominated his own age group, he hasn't dominated above it...even at the World Juniors where he was expected to be a dominant force he left a lot of people disappointed (again, seemingly taking shifts off...maybe endurance.) Silfverberg completely dominated the SEL this year and has shown more than Zibanejad -- he's older, sure, but what he's done hasn't been done since Forsberg.

Quote:
Silfverberg looked physically overmatched in the playoffs, but that series was quite physical. He didn't create a lot of offense, but he only got 2 games against the #1 team in the EC. He doesn't look like he'll hurt us over extended play, but he certainly didn't seem to have any dominant characteristics either. We'll get a better idea of his potential next season when he gets a regular rotation of teams, but just going but what I've seen... the easily visible qualities (tools, work ethic, toughness) are so overwhelmingly in Zibanejad's favour, that I can't imagine anybody picturing Silfverberg being better in the NHL.
Zibanejad will be a better skater, stronger, but appears to be more likely to get injured too. I don't see how you can quantify his work ethic to be higher than Silfverberg (a guy who went from decent prospect to phenom over 3 years and if you don't think that shows an incredible amount of work ethic well...) On top of this Silfverberg has better hands, a better shot, and has demonstrated to this point to have better hockey sense and intelligence on the ice. However despite having some tools in his favor (just as many as Zibanejad IMO) it's the brain that generally sets players apart and that's where I think that Zibanejad is lacking. How many times can one skate over the blueline and float a shot at the goalie before realizing that it doesn't do anything? That's pretty much all Zibby did when he was with Ottawa after pre-season.

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06-27-2012, 07:27 AM
  #128
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Cjam your evaluations are going to be off for sure your evaluating an undeveloped 18 year old kid(with a late birthday) and not taking into consideration development.

Just because he kept taking those shots doesn't mean he'll keep doing it forever. It's probably not his hockey OQ it's probably his nerves and eagerness to try and to anything.

Your putting way way way to much stock into a 9 game stint with a young undeveloped kid.....


Last edited by BK201: 06-27-2012 at 07:35 AM.
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Old
06-27-2012, 08:13 AM
  #129
Cujomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Cjam your evaluations are going to be off for sure your evaluating an undeveloped 18 year old kid(with a late birthday) and not taking into consideration development.

Just because he kept taking those shots doesn't mean he'll keep doing it forever. It's probably not his hockey OQ it's probably his nerves and eagerness to try and to anything.

Your putting way way way to much stock into a 9 game stint with a young undeveloped kid.....
That's not the only sample size I am referring to. I never said that he couldn't become a good player, because he certainly can, I'm just saying to temper expectations because he's never been a dominant player at any level and he hasn't shown to me that he will be. Whereas Silfverberg has shown that kind of play and the ability to elevate his play above his peers and those that have been around a lot longer than him.

Zibanejad did the shot from the blueline thing a lot during the SEL season this year too for what it's worth.

But anyway, it's not relevant. I was just comparing the two because those are the two that were being compared in the post I was responding to. As of right now Silfverberg has shown more promise and developed into a prospect that is miles ahead of Zibanejad. I think prospect ranking is based on top end potential AND likelihood of reaching it. Zibanejad is a toolsy player that could be elite if he put it all together and had the same kind of hockey intelligence that most of the top players possess (Ovechkin notwithstanding, he's a freak.) Silfverberg seems to have that special something that allows him to fully utilize the abilities available to him.

It's all moot though until they show up at the NHL level.

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Old
06-27-2012, 08:42 AM
  #130
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O ok I see what your saying.

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