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Jordan Staal traded to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 8th overall

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:44 PM
  #401
sniugneP
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Yeah, when I first saw Dumoulin's name, I thought he's just a throw-in.

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06-26-2012, 12:54 PM
  #402
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I remember when BC fans would come over here to tell us about Samuelsson, they'd always mention how great Dumoulin was. I definitely knew he was a good prospect, I'm surprised his names wasn't really ever mentioned in any proposals I saw.

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06-26-2012, 12:54 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Nice find. Like what I'm hearing about the kid. Although I gotta admit I was like YEAH! when they announced the 8th pick and HELL YEAH! when they announced Brandon Sutter but was like Who the **** is that? when they announced Dumoulin's name at the draft. It sounded like only one guy in the whole building cheered when Dumoulin got announced. It'd be funny if he turns out to be the best player in the package that we got.
Yeah, that was too funny how there was a huge uproar for the trade announcement, a huge one for Staal, some muttering for the 8th, loud cheers for Sutter and then just a big freaking question mark floating over dead silence. And Bettman looked kinda disappointed after his big build up with the last "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand" too.

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06-26-2012, 12:56 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Nice find. Like what I'm hearing about the kid. Although I gotta admit I was like YEAH! when they announced the 8th pick and HELL YEAH! when they announced Brandon Sutter but was like Who the **** is that? when they announced Dumoulin's name at the draft. It sounded like only one guy in the whole building cheered when Dumoulin got announced. It'd be funny if he turns out to be the best player in the package that we got.
They've been talking about you on the X morning show this week because there is almost silence after announcing the Dumoulin part of the trade and one person goes "Yeahhhhh!".

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06-26-2012, 01:00 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Yeah, that was too funny how there was a huge uproar for the trade announcement, a huge one for Staal, some muttering for the 8th, loud cheers for Sutter and then just a big freaking question mark floating over dead silence. And Bettman looked kinda disappointed after his big build up with the last "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand" too.
How about Bettman working the crowd: *smirks* "those of you in the building will be particularly interested"

Lol

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06-26-2012, 01:17 PM
  #406
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Dumoulin probably wasn't mentioned much in proposals because 1) Canes fans were pretty high on him, so you never saw us putting him in proposals. 2) Because the Canes don't get as much publicity, he went the college route, and he isn't flashy, you don't hear as much about him. He was arguably the best player on that BC team, but Chris Kreider got so much more air-time than Dumoulin (granted, two different positions).

I am high on Dumoulin because he is big, smart, decent skating, and pretty much does everything well, but nothing flashy (e.g..uses his body, but doesn't blast people)..and he's a winner. The only knock on him has been his footwork. He's a big kid with a long reach though, so even if he doesn't improve his footwork, he should still be able to be an effective 4-5 defensive, defenseman worst case IMO. If his footwork develops more, he can be a top 4 shutdown type guy IMO. Remains to be seen though.

Canes have had a lot of success in recent years with drafting NCAA defensemen in the 2nd/3rd round. McBain, Faulk, Dumoulin, Mark Alt (son of NFL pro John Alt), and Danny Biega (ECAC best defenseman and Harvard Captain).

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06-26-2012, 03:36 PM
  #407
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So how long before we see a trade proposal on here to bring Staal back?
I put the over/under at one month.


Even better yet how long before were trading one of the big two to get Jordan and Eric both because "we cant get one without the other"?
I think Sutter is going to fit in so well we won't even care. Lets be honest here, what would you rather have? Staal at $6 million a year or Sutter at $2 million a year plus $4 million more cap to add a better winger. It comes down to would you rather have Staal $6 million + a $1.5-2.5 million winger on Sid's line or have Sutter $2 million + a $5.5-6.5 million winger on Sid's line? I say this team will be better spending the money with the top tier winger because Sutter will provide the same type play as Staal did back when we went to the Cup 2 years in a row.

Getting two top tier prospects just makes the deal that much better. Dumoulin might make our team this season and is a 6'4" defensive dman that could be in our top 4 for the next 10 years.

Pouliot has the ability to one day be a top 10 scorer for defenseman and I really think he is going to do well in our system. People talk about his size and being a gogo. I will say that 11 of the 19 defenseman that scored 40 points or more last year were 6' or less with Kimmo Timonen the smallest at 5'10". This kid can skate, pass, has great offensive instincts and vision, a ton of offensive skills and upside and while his official combine measurement is 5'11.25" he is 192 pounds which is not small for that height and will easily be 200+ after a year or two of filling out.

This trade is almost a can't lose for the Pens. Even if the two D prospects flop which I highly doubt, I would rather have Sutter and a $5.5-6.5 million winger than Staal at 6 million and a $1.5-2.5 million winger. Even if that winger is not found this offseason I would rather have that extra 4 million to improve in other area's. It is how you spend your cap money that counts and I don't think Staal is worth $4 million more than Sutter when Sutter is going to do the job and very well might be the best 3rd line center in the game now.

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06-27-2012, 01:23 AM
  #408
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my prediction: Penguins become better after dumping Bylsma and co. ITF. Mario won't have it much longer and I'm betting on Bylsma leaving, not Shero.

for now, the question is, how do Penguins get ride of their NJ Devils reject defenseman?

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06-27-2012, 03:27 AM
  #409
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Well, now that some time has passed and I can take off my fanboy goggles I think it's clear Shero has made yet another genious move. This was probably the hardest since his was most likely forced to trade with the Canes only. These are all the advantages I can see:
- We've moved a 60 million dollar player that was doomed to play too little and we all know that's a fact: horrible underutilisation of one of the best two-way forwards in the league. This is in the best interest of both the Pens and Gronk.
- We've removed a negative presence that was undermining the rooms morale. The fact is we've known for years Jordan wasn't happy (with all right) because he was ****ing showing it. This situation was too much for him to handle emotionally and it showed. He was snippy as hell with the management and all too somber with his fellow players.
- We've added a positive presence in the humble and smiling Brandon: I swear to God he's going to have a bit of a mascot effect like the good ole Talbo' once did.
- We've added a first round pick people, first round! Also if you look at Brandons numbers you realise he really is that caliber of a player.
- We've acquired a player with potential that can only be realised in a club like the Pens! Maybe he won't explode as much as Neal has; but do expect Brandon to knock your socks off with performances you hadn't expected now that he's with us!
- Last but not least we've removed a hefty cap hit which will be incredibly useful for negotiating with Sid, Geno, Tanger and whoever else we will bring come free agent time.
I'm amazed at how Shero manages this franchise, incredible guy!

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for now, the question is, how do Penguins get ride of their NJ Devils reject defenseman?
Send him to the Islanders for a cupcake and a last round pick... and the pick is optional.

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06-27-2012, 08:15 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
How about Bettman working the crowd: *smirks* "those of you in the building will be particularly interested"

Lol
as soon as the TSN guys said "There will be a HUGE trade announcement...", i ran into the living room and pulled my parents in to watch. i knew it had to involve the Pens somehow so i was just like "guys, the Pens are making a trade, go to channel 28"

even then i had my doubts but then as soon as Bettman said "And for those of you in the building you'll be particularly interested..." i knew Staal was gone so i just started saying WOOOOOOWWWWWW lol

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06-27-2012, 08:36 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by CorpseLW View Post
my prediction: Penguins become better after dumping Bylsma and co. ITF. Mario won't have it much longer and I'm betting on Bylsma leaving, not Shero.

for now, the question is, how do Penguins get ride of their NJ Devils reject defenseman?
This is why although it is nice to think about what Ray Shero got back in the Staal deal and the possibility of Parise & Suter landing here but with Bylsma and his staff remaining in place I'm going to continue to hold off on the optimism.

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06-27-2012, 08:43 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by CorpseLW View Post
my prediction: Penguins become better after dumping Bylsma and co. ITF. Mario won't have it much longer and I'm betting on Bylsma leaving, not Shero.

for now, the question is, how do Penguins get ride of their NJ Devils reject defenseman?
The irony of this post is that if the Pens don't get past the second round they probably do fire DB, just as they will finally begin to have the defensive personnel to fully implement HIS desired system.

Michalek getting traded because he couldn't fully buy in (didn't have the skill set) is telling (as much as it was a salary dump).

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06-27-2012, 08:46 AM
  #413
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A couple disappointing postseasons and people act like we have a liability as a coach. I don't get it. The NHL playoffs are very hard. Detroit has a great coach and they've had some disappointing postseasons recently and before their last Cup win in 2008 they had some embarrassing defeats at the hands of the Oilers etc. It happens.

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06-27-2012, 08:49 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
A couple disappointing postseasons and people act like we have a liability as a coach. I don't get it. The NHL playoffs are very hard. Detroit has a great coach and they've had some disappointing postseasons recently and before their last Cup win in 2008 they had some embarrassing defeats at the hands of the Oilers etc. It happens.
I think the most worrisome thing is how similar the disappointing postseasons were. Largely failures from the defense, goaltending and special teams and an obvious lack of any sort of adjustment. I think DB does enough good things to deserve some more time. But he really does have to start taking some of this blame.

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06-27-2012, 08:59 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
A couple disappointing postseasons and people act like we have a liability as a coach. I don't get it. The NHL playoffs are very hard. Detroit has a great coach and they've had some disappointing postseasons recently and before their last Cup win in 2008 they had some embarrassing defeats at the hands of the Oilers etc. It happens.
Like it or not the Pens are like the Yankees or the Heat, with the roster they ice, they need to do better than 1st or 2nd round exits. Maybe they don't go to the ECF's every year, but they certainly should not get bounced early three years in a row.

Even the most hard core fans will admit that this years exit was just embarrassing.

As liked as DB is by the players and the organization, if it is in the back of the fans minds, it has to be in the back of the minds of the people in charge that Therien had as much to do with the Cup as Bylsma did.

And finally this.

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I think the most worrisome thing is how similar the disappointing postseasons were. Largely failures from the defense, goaltending and special teams and an obvious lack of any sort of adjustment.

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06-27-2012, 08:59 AM
  #416
Le Magnifique 66
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I know we have had some difficulties in the last 3 post seasons but right now I just don't see Bylsma getting canned. There isn't much he could have done with the defense and MAF playing that way.

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06-27-2012, 09:00 AM
  #417
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I think the most worrisome thing is how similar the disappointing postseasons were. Largely failures from the defense, goaltending and special teams and an obvious lack of any sort of adjustment. I think DB does enough good things to deserve some more time. But he really does have to start taking some of this blame.
I understand what you mean. He already takes a lot of blame though. I just worry more about our headcase goalie and some of our declining veteran D than I do about the coach.

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06-27-2012, 09:02 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
I know we have had some difficulties in the last 3 post seasons but right now I just don't see Bylsma getting canned. There isn't much he could have done with the defense and MAF playing that way.
He could have simplified the defensive system that the players were clearly struggling with. He could have changed up the historically bad penalty kill. The defense was having problems all year; the problems didn't just pop up in the playoffs.

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06-27-2012, 09:06 AM
  #419
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I understand what you mean. He already takes a lot of blame though. I just worry more about our headcase goalie and some of our declining veteran D than I do about the coach.
The blame is obviously shared amongst a LOT of people. You don't have THAT bad of a postseason because of any one person's mistakes. I just think if you have a defense that is struggling and a goalie losing confidence, you have to adjust to deal with it as the coach. Swallow your pride and pack in the defense. Simplify things. Block shots and insulate the struggling goalie.

Again, it's not just on him. I don't think he should be fired right now. But if he has another season where he just completely refuses to adjust what "Pittsburgh Penguins Hockey" is even when it is failing miserably, you have to consider making a change. Just like if Orpik or Fleury fall on their faces again you have to consider making a change.

That loss was a total team effort. Fair or not, Dan Bylsma is in charge of total team efforts.

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06-27-2012, 09:08 AM
  #420
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We've removed a negative presence that was undermining the rooms morale. The fact is we've known for years Jordan wasn't happy (with all right) because he was ****ing showing it. This situation was too much for him to handle emotionally and it showed.
He was snippy as hell with the management and all too somber with his fellow players.
Where did any of this come from?

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06-27-2012, 09:13 AM
  #421
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Where did any of this come from?

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06-27-2012, 09:15 AM
  #422
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He could have simplified the defensive system that the players were clearly struggling with. He could have changed up the historically bad penalty kill. The defense was having problems all year; the problems didn't just pop up in the playoffs.
But at the same time Fleury was great during the season, I don't think both Bylsma and Shero expected that garbage from Flower in the playoffs. Also if the injuries to Martin and other are true it sure didn't help. We will see what happens but I still think Bylsma is Shero's guy and he won't be firing him anytime soon

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06-27-2012, 09:16 AM
  #423
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He could have simplified the defensive system that the players were clearly struggling with. He could have changed up the historically bad penalty kill. The defense was having problems all year; the problems didn't just pop up in the playoffs.
Exactly. The tape to tape breakout passes or the D carrying the puck up to the blue or red line, is just not going to work with Orpik or Martin or even Michalek, guys who are more inclined to wrap the puck around the boards or bank it out when they get in trouble.

As I said a few posts up though, if the hype is to be believed, very soon (this season or next), DB should have his type of D-Men filling out four of the six D slots.

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06-27-2012, 09:23 AM
  #424
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Exactly. The tape to tape breakout passes or the D carrying the puck up to the blue or red line, is just not going to work with Orpik or Martin or even Michalek, guys who are more inclined to wrap the puck around the boards or bank it out when they get in trouble.

As I said a few posts up though, if the hype is to be believed, very soon (this season or next), DB should have his type of D-Men filling out four of the six D slots.
Uhh Michalek had a great first pass and Martin is a very good puck carrier. It wasn't tape to tape passes that were the problem. It was the constant use of the stretch pass and moving up, up, up rather than using short crisp passes when the stretch pass wasn't there. Skating the puck is one of Martin's biggest strengths.

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06-27-2012, 09:37 AM
  #425
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Uhh Michalek had a great first pass and Martin is a very good puck carrier. It wasn't tape to tape passes that were the problem. It was the constant use of the stretch pass and moving up, up, up rather than using short crisp passes when the stretch pass wasn't there. Skating the puck is one of Martin's biggest strengths.
Ok maybe that was so, but it didn't look that way last year. Especially the Martin carrying the puck part. Maybe he was hurt ALL YEAR but he gave up the puck a ton, before he even had a chance to start up the ice.

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