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Old
06-27-2012, 07:10 AM
  #101
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Eugene View Post
Ummm yeah.

Kuba had more points. Kuba was +26 in comparison to Giordano's 0.

Kuba played a full 30 seconds more per game.

Get your head out of your ass.

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Old
06-27-2012, 07:19 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Give this man a medal.

They literally have Sven, Glenx, Iggy, Kipper and Gio that have value. That's all.
lol. Way to go, champ.

Canuck troll is trollful.

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Old
06-27-2012, 07:24 AM
  #103
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As a Senators fan, no way in hell that happens. If Calgary adds Iginla, then maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SickHandsNoShot View Post
To Calgary:

Mika Zibanejad/Jakob Silfverberg
2013 2nd Round Pick

To Ottawa:

Mark Giordano
Mikael Backlund/Greg Nemisz

This was being discussed in a different thread a while back between me and a Sens fan. We couldnt quite find a fit because in order for the Flames to give up Giordano the price would be high, but other than these two prospects there is no interest from the Flames. The reason Ottawa does this is the fact that they could use a great two-way LH D-man to play with Karlsson.
I made the comparison to Keith-Seabrook: Not in their styles, but in the way they can control a game is a very attractive option for an up and coming team.

I was told that the values just were a little off, and that Silfverberg may hold a higher value to sens fans than Zibanejad. Which is why the picks and prospects have been added.

I would probrobly do Backlund if it was Silfverberg and the 2nd.
But if it was Zibanejad I would drop Backs off and offer Nemisz.

I wanted to see if both Fanbases could come into an agreement. Modify it as you like, I just think it is a good fit for both teams.

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Old
06-27-2012, 07:42 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I can certainly see Calgary fans saying no to this proposal, but I don't understand them bashing the value. It's pretty much perfect. Top 5 prospect + 2nd round pick for a good, young D-man.

Personally, if Zibanejad is moving, I'd rather add to him and get Yandle.
It's a little worse value when you add in Backlund. He hasn't excelled offensively but he's played a pretty good defensive game and improved. Losing him is a pretty big loss with the current center depth we have. Even when gaining Zibby.

Losing Gio hurts too. He's one of like two long term pieces we have on the back end, and he's not the overpaid one.

On paper without taking into account other factors but player value, Gio/BAcklund for Zibby/2nd is probably close to fair value, maybe a little tilted in Ottawa's favor.

But off paper, the value is out of whack a lot more.

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Old
06-27-2012, 07:56 AM
  #105
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I just love how these trade threads evolve into the fans of one team being condescending toward another. It's hilarious when the team in question finished 2points better in the standings! Man, what world beaters! What a superior bunch! How about measuring the trade value on what it is. A trade of immediate help for futures. Weigh the potential of success now versus the potential of future success. If Ottawa feels they are a top four defenseman away from being a contender, the deal is worth it. If they feel they are better off waiting the three years for this kid to develop then they don't make the deal. All the hyperbole and ignorant comments in the world doesn't change the optics on the proposal.

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Old
06-27-2012, 08:30 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Svensational View Post
I tip my hat to you. Always nice to see someone on the "other side" be reasonable. Sven and Zbad should not be compared yet. Give them a solid year in the NHL.
You only think he is reasonable because he agrees with you. Meanwhile when actual intelligent hockey scouts and GMs get polled, Zibanejad is clearly ahead in the rankings.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:04 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I just love how these trade threads evolve into the fans of one team being condescending toward another. It's hilarious when the team in question finished 2points better in the standings! Man, what world beaters! What a superior bunch! How about measuring the trade value on what it is. A trade of immediate help for futures. Weigh the potential of success now versus the potential of future success. If Ottawa feels they are a top four defenseman away from being a contender, the deal is worth it. If they feel they are better off waiting the three years for this kid to develop then they don't make the deal. All the hyperbole and ignorant comments in the world doesn't change the optics on the proposal.
Exactly. If I was OTT I would not trade any of the young talent yet. They are not going to be a contender next year IMO. I watch a lot of sens games as they are my 2nd favorite team. There is a ton of promise throughout the lineup, but they need more time. Adding a guy like Gio would be great for them, but not at the cost of their youth, at least not yet.

For CGY fans, we have no reason to move Gio. He's our most valuable asset, plays well above his pay, and is a leader. Add the fact that our backend is already quite weak, we would not move him unless a stellar deal came along. The OP is not good enough. STL fans put together a much better package, if these boards hold any weight beyond fantasy.

Good old HF trade boards, always fun to read 5 pages of fan bashing until you see a few reasonable responses.


Last edited by The Gnome: 06-27-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old
06-27-2012, 09:05 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I just love how these trade threads evolve into the fans of one team being condescending toward another. It's hilarious when the team in question finished 2points better in the standings! Man, what world beaters! What a superior bunch! How about measuring the trade value on what it is. A trade of immediate help for futures. Weigh the potential of success now versus the potential of future success. If Ottawa feels they are a top four defenseman away from being a contender, the deal is worth it. If they feel they are better off waiting the three years for this kid to develop then they don't make the deal. All the hyperbole and ignorant comments in the world doesn't change the optics on the proposal.
2 points better, all the while being expected to finish 30th, that's right 30th, by most of the experts who were picking.

On the other hand, your GM guaranteed a playoff berth for your team, which you'd hope would be true when you ALSO have the worst prospect pool in the NHL by quite a significant margin.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:08 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
2 points better, all the while being expected to finish 30th, that's right 30th, by most of the experts who were picking.

On the other hand, your GM guaranteed a playoff berth for your team, which you'd hope would be true when you ALSO have the worst prospect pool in the NHL by quite a significant margin.
Who ****ing cares!

The whole point is the trade value of the OP. Since we sucked last year, we should give up our most valuable player for one good prospect? Makes perfect sense.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:13 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
Who ****ing cares!

The whole point is the trade value of the OP. Since we sucked last year, we should give up our most valuable player for one good prospect? Makes perfect sense.
I completely agree.

And at the same time, why would the Ottawa Senators give up their future for a very good defenceman? Makes no sense for us either.

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06-27-2012, 09:13 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
2 points better, all the while being expected to finish 30th, that's right 30th, by most of the experts who were picking.

On the other hand, your GM guaranteed a playoff berth for your team, which you'd hope would be true when you ALSO have the worst prospect pool in the NHL by quite a significant margin.
That has what to do with the trade being in Ottawa's favor by a little bit?

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:15 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
It's a little worse value when you add in Backlund. He hasn't excelled offensively but he's played a pretty good defensive game and improved. Losing him is a pretty big loss with the current center depth we have. Even when gaining Zibby.

Losing Gio hurts too. He's one of like two long term pieces we have on the back end, and he's not the overpaid one.

On paper without taking into account other factors but player value, Gio/BAcklund for Zibby/2nd is probably close to fair value, maybe a little tilted in Ottawa's favor.

But off paper, the value is out of whack a lot more.
I was thinking more along the lines of just acquiring Giordano, not sure Ottawa needs anything else coming back as we have a massive battle coming up for roster spots at forward.

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06-27-2012, 09:17 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
I completely agree.

And at the same time, why would the Ottawa Senators give up their future for a very good defenceman? Makes no sense for us either.
I just said that in my post. Thanks for reading.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:19 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
I just said that in my post. Thanks for reading.
Where?

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:21 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I was thinking more along the lines of just acquiring Giordano, not sure Ottawa needs anything else coming back as we have a massive battle coming up for roster spots at forward.
You would never get him alone for the OP. Both of the listed prospects are great, but Giordano is worth more than 1 of them.

CGY also is not dealing from a position of strength, we cannot afford to move him unless another top 4 dman is coming back in another trade.

Still the value is off. I'd say the value is good if you upgrade to a 1st+2nd+top prospect. Gio is a solid #2 dman around the NHL with a great contract and lots of intangibles.

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06-27-2012, 09:22 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
You would never get him alone for the OP. Both of the listed prospects are great, but Giordano is worth more than 1 of them.

CGY also is not dealing from a position of strength, we cannot afford to move him unless another top 4 dman is coming back in another trade.

Still the value is off. I'd say the value is good if you upgrade to a 1st+2nd+top prospect.
Sorry bud you're wrong.

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06-27-2012, 09:23 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
Sorry bud you're wrong.
Coming from the guy that says we have the worst prospect pool in the nhl

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06-27-2012, 09:31 AM
  #118
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Coming from the guy that says we have the worst prospect pool in the nhl
You do.

Why do you guys defend your team? Your management has driven yourselves into years of mediocrity, and you're only getting worse.

I'm not trolling or trying to flame (no pun intended) you guys, I'm just scratching my head at how you guys can look forward to the current future of the Calgary Flames. You have Sven Bartschi as your blue chip prospect. THAT'S IT. Backlund is a 3rd line center ATM, and you don't have any top end defenceman coming through the ranks. Continue to be a diehard fan of your team, but don't let that blind you by the fact that you guys are getting absolutely screwed over by the joke of a GM Jay Feaster. Until you guys realize a rebuild is needed for the Calgary Flames to one day be a good franchise again, your team won't be going anywhere. It doesn't matter how many years Feaster guarantees a playoff spot. You're team is made up of aging vets, and they're not even good enough to make the playoffs.

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06-27-2012, 09:34 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
You do.

Why do you guys defend your team? Your management has driven yourselves into years of mediocrity, and you're only getting worse.

I'm not trolling or trying to flame (no pun intended) you guys, I'm just scratching my head at how you guys can look forward to the current future of the Calgary Flames. You have Sven Bartschi as your blue chip prospect. THAT'S IT. Backlund is a 3rd line center ATM, and you don't have any top end defenceman coming through the ranks. Continue to be a diehard fan of your team, but don't let that blind you by the fact that you guys are getting absolutely screwed over by the joke of a GM Jay Feaster. Until you guys realize a rebuild is needed for the Calgary Flames to one day be a good franchise again, your team won't be going anywhere. It doesn't matter how many years Feaster guarantees a playoff spot. You're team is made up of aging vets, and they're not even good enough to make the playoffs.
This is why no fan who knows the first thing about CGY would give a **** about what you think about the flames. You are so far out of your element, best to stick with what you know.

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06-27-2012, 09:38 AM
  #120
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This is why no fan who knows the first thing about CGY would give a **** about what you think about the flames. You are so far out of your element, best to stick with what you know.
I'm a huge supporter of the Flames, and I watch them 15+ times a year. I love the city, the team, the crowd, etc, etc.

I'm just letting you know that Feaster isn't going to lead the Flames to glory. Simply put, enough said. Congratulations on supporting your team through the tough times, but get comfy because with him there the team is going to have to get used to mediocrity.

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06-27-2012, 09:54 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
I'm a huge supporter of the Flames, and I watch them 15+ times a year. I love the city, the team, the crowd, etc, etc.

I'm just letting you know that Feaster isn't going to lead the Flames to glory. Simply put, enough said. Congratulations on supporting your team through the tough times, but get comfy because with him there the team is going to have to get used to mediocrity.
Sure thing Champ. Anyone who has payed attention to Feaster at all would know that he killed last years draft (at least how it looks now), greatly improving our prospect base in the process. But please, continue to tell me how much Feaster sucks. Since he has taken over in CGY we have improved our roster and our prospect base. Though the prospects are still weaker than most teams, there is clearly reason to be optimistic with Feaster at the helm and his supporting cast.

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06-27-2012, 09:58 AM
  #122
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Sure thing Champ. Anyone who has payed attention to Feaster at all would know that he killed last years draft (at least how it looks now), greatly improving our prospect base in the process. But please, continue to tell me how much Feaster sucks. Since he has taken over in CGY we have improved our roster and our prospect base. Though the prospects are still weaker than most teams, there is clearly reason to be optimistic with Feaster at the helm and his supporting cast.
Here's a good comparison. Saying your prospect pool has improved is like saying:

-I've doubled my salary. From $1 to $2.
-I've tripled my YouTube subscribers in the last month, IM FAMOUS. (From 3 to 9 subscribers).

He didn't "kill" last years draft. Florida "killed" last years draft. So did Ottawa.

Calgary's prospect pool lacks a true bluechip defensive prospect, and a true bluechip center.

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06-27-2012, 10:10 AM
  #123
Stewie Griffin
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Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
2 points better, all the while being expected to finish 30th, that's right 30th, by most of the experts who were picking.

On the other hand, your GM guaranteed a playoff berth for your team, which you'd hope would be true when you ALSO have the worst prospect pool in the NHL by quite a significant margin.
Worst, by a significant margin eh? Not anymore - sure 26th isn't much to brag about but if you're pulling stuff directly out of your ass, it means that you're desperate to win a losing argument...
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-ra...gs-2011-2012/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
You only think he is reasonable because he agrees with you. Meanwhile when actual intelligent hockey scouts and GMs get polled, Zibanejad is clearly ahead in the rankings.
Link?

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Old
06-27-2012, 10:13 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Worst, by a significant margin eh? Not anymore - sure 26th isn't much to brag about but if you're pulling stuff directly out of your ass, it means that you're desperate to win a losing argument...
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-ra...gs-2011-2012/5


Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
From THN's Futurewatch 2012 (a list made from the polling of NHL scouts and GM's), Mika Zibanejad ranked at the 5th best prospect in the league. Sven was 15th.
Right in this thread..

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Old
06-27-2012, 10:14 AM
  #125
Marvelous Manked
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Worst, by a significant margin eh? Not anymore - sure 26th isn't much to brag about but if you're pulling stuff directly out of your ass, it means that you're desperate to win a losing argument...
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-ra...gs-2011-2012/5


Link?
Showing me an article by hockeys future just makes me laugh.

These people cannot be relied upon to accurately discuss NHL Prospects. They are the same group who labelled Shane Prince's weakness as "Speed" when that is probably his biggest asset.

These are the people that had Louie Caporusso as the Senators 4th best prospect. Pardon me if I don't acknowledge the credibility of Hockey's Future.

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