but should the Panthers retire John Vanbiesbrouck's number?
Accomplishments/honors as a Panther
Teams first "star" player
Carried team on his back to 97 Stanley Cup Finals
Top 2 in every goaltending record the Panthers have
Arguably the most recognizable name/most beloved player in the teams history.
Is he an NHL legend? No
But he is in the US Hockey HoF and was arguably the best player in our team's short history.
We aren't an original 6 team like Chicago where the bar is extremely high to get your number retired. Besides, somebody from the first 20 years of the Panthers has to deserve the honor, why not the Beezer.
P.S. seeing random scrubs who get a cup of coffee with the big club wearing 34 makes me sick.
but should the Panthers retire John Vanbiesbrouck's number?
Accomplishments/honors as a Panther
Teams first "star" player
Carried team on his back to 97 Stanley Cup Finals
Top 2 in every goaltending record the Panthers have
Arguably the most recognizable name/most beloved player in the teams history.
Is he an NHL legend? No
But he is in the US Hockey HoF and was arguably the best player in our team's short history.
We aren't an original 6 team like Chicago where the bar is extremely high to get your number retired.Besides, somebody from the first 20 years of the Panthers has to deserve the honor, why not the Beezer.
P.S. seeing random scrubs who get a cup of coffee with the big club wearing 34 makes me sick.
1. The bar should be the same for every team, unless you think the pathetic Panthers should have a lower criteria for what constitutes a great player than Toronto or Chicago.
2. It is not a given that someone from a very forgettable two decade stretch should have their number retired.
The '96 team should be honored with a banner for their improbable run... and that's about it.
I won't even touch the fact that Vanbiesbrouck's foot-in-mouth incident makes him a PR problem.
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FLORIDA PANTHERS 2011-12 SOUTHEAST DIVISION CHAMPIONS 2012-13 BASEMENT DWELLERS
1. The bar should be the same for every team, unless you think the pathetic Panthers should have a lower criteria for what constitutes a great player than Toronto or Chicago.
^ Exactly. I have no problem honouring Bure or Beezer in the rafters, but to completely retire their #10 and #34? No way.
A franchise player is only worth having his jersey retired. Even if Weiss ends up spending the rest of his career here, it shouldn't be 100% certain, unless he guides the team to SC(s).
Like I already said in the Bure thread, whoever ends up being the 1st one retired, he will always be seen as the benchmark for generations to come when management thinks if a player is worth that honour.
A franchise player is only worth having his jersey retired. Even if Weiss ends up spending the rest of his career here, it shouldn't be 100% certain, unless he guides the team to SC(s).
Agreed. If there's anyone on the current team that most deserves to have their jersey retired by the Panthers, it's Weiss. But I'd still say no to him unless he elevates his game to become a legit #1 point-per-game center. I love Weiss for all he brings to the table, but he's just not at jersey retirement level and I doubt he ever will be.
Last edited by angry_treefrog: 06-27-2012 at 11:20 AM.
Agreed. If there's anyone on the current team that most deserves to have their jersey retired by the Panthers, it's Weiss. But I'd still say no to him unless he elevates his game to become a legit #1 point-per-game center. I love Weiss for all he brings to the table, but he's just not at jersey retirement level and I doubt he ever will be.
I agree. I think one of our current prospects will be the first one hanging from the rafters.
Also could see possibly Gudbranson (maybe) or Kulikov (seems less likely).
1. The bar should be the same for every team, unless you think the pathetic Panthers should have a lower criteria for what constitutes a great player than Toronto or Chicago.
2. It is not a given that someone from a very forgettable two decade stretch should have their number retired.
The '96 team should be honored with a banner for their improbable run... and that's about it.
I won't even touch the fact that Vanbiesbrouck's foot-in-mouth incident makes him a PR problem.
1. This isn't 60 years ago when there was only 6 teams and everyone had a bonafide HoF on their roster every 10 years.
2. While in the grand history of hockey, it is a forgettable 20 years, but to Panther fans, there were plenty of highlights, and almost all of them include the Beezer. Its a different era. If we limit retiring numbers to guys who are borderline HoF or above, there won't be more than 2-3 names in the rafters 100 years from now. The talent is just too spread out in today's NHL to keep the standard that high.
Also, for the foot-in-mouth incident just look down the road to the Miami Heat, Tim Hardaway went on a very public homophobic tirade on the radio and his number is hanging from the rafters at the AAA.
Just my opinion. Obviously your points are valid, we just have differing views.
1. The bar should be the same for every team, unless you think the pathetic Panthers should have a lower criteria for what constitutes a great player than Toronto or Chicago.
2. It is not a given that someone from a very forgettable two decade stretch should have their number retired.
The '96 team should be honored with a banner for their improbable run... and that's about it.
I won't even touch the fact that Vanbiesbrouck's foot-in-mouth incident makes him a PR problem.
1. So the bar should be the same has the Habs let's say. So we should wait for our centennial year to retire jersey of HoFamers who won 4 Stanley Cup and his member of the Order of Canada. Oh, we should also wait more than 50 years to ponder if he really deserves it.
2. I agree with that.
Patrick Roy asked for a trade from the Habs, talk about a PR disaster, much worst than the Beezer. The Habs still retired his number. (He's a lot better than Beezer, but not the point)
There should be something about being a fan favourite and helping immensly the franchise. Without the improbable run on the back of Vanbiesbrouck and the stellar play of Bure, one could argue that this team would have had the same fate as the Thrashers, and that's worth more than a Stanley Cup in my book.
I'd say no to this as well. Although, he should always certainly be honored as should Bure in some way. Beezer led us to our only Stanley Cup Final, but I wouldn't say he accomplished enough to get his number retired and wasn't with us long enough for that as well. The only guy at this point do I see it ever happening to in our history is Weiss.
I'd say no to this as well. Although, he should always certainly be honored as should Bure in some way. Beezer led us to our only Stanley Cup Final, but I wouldn't say he accomplished enough to get his number retired and wasn't with us long enough for that as well. The only guy at this point do I see it ever happening to in our history is Weiss.
My only response to that is that it is not the Beezer's fault that his career started before the Panthers existed. If you ever ask him, he always identifies himself as a Panther not a Ranger. I think it is funny that people are more willing to put #9 up in the rafters over the Beezer. I love Weiss, but other than remaining loyal to the franchise, what has he done to deserve having his number retired.
I think it is funny that people are more willing to put #9 up in the rafters over the Beezer. I love Weiss, but other than remaining loyal to the franchise, what has he done to deserve having his number retired.
What has Beezer done to deserve a jersey retirement? The league would run out of numbers pretty quickly if every goalie that lead their team to the SC-finals had their number retired.
And no one is saying that Weiss would get that #9 if he left or retired due to injury now. It's if he ends up staying here for his whole career, which would be about +15 years. You think over 15 years of loyal service to the team isn't worth to have Weiss's jersey retired, but yet you'd retire Beezer's #34 because of one cup run and a few seasons here?
I seriously hope this franchise doesn't turn into a total joke that retires players just because they were good.
What has Beezer done to deserve a jersey retirement? The league would run out of numbers pretty quickly if every goalie that lead their team to the SC-finals had their number retired.
And no one is saying that Weiss would get that #9 if he left or retired due to injury now. It's if he ends up staying here for his whole career, which would be about +15 years. You think over 15 years of loyal service to the team isn't worth to have Weiss's jersey retired, but yet you'd retire Beezer's #34 because of one cup run and a few seasons here?
I seriously hope this franchise doesn't turn into a total joke that retires players just because they were good.
5 years of outstanding goaltending. Without him the Panther's franchise goes through the same growing pains almost every other expansion franchise has gone through.
Look at all of the other expansion franchises in the past 20 years. All of them were absolutely horrible the first 5 years of existance and some of them (Columbus) still haven't figured it out. Not only were the panthers relevant, they were one of the better teams in hockey. None of that is possible without Vanbiesbrouck.
5 years of outstanding goaltending. Without him the Panther's franchise goes through the same growing pains almost every other expansion franchise has gone through.
Should we retire Lu's #1 too then? No. 5 years is nowhere close enough to warrant a retired jersey.
Should we retire Lu's #1 too then? No. 5 years is nowhere close enough to warrant a retired jersey.
Consider the circumstances of both players.
One was here during the best era in the franchises history, and the other was here during the lowest point in the franchises history.
You also have to consider the circumstances of both players arrival and departure.
Beezer came in the franchises first year and left when it was obvious to absolutely everyone that both parties were heading in different directions and it was best for both parties to part ways.
Luongo forced his way out instead when times were tough instead of sticking it out. Luongo was also entering his prime while Vanbiesbrouck was finishing his career up and went to chase a trophy
I love Weiss, but other than remaining loyal to the franchise, what has he done to deserve having his number retired.
Nothing yet. That's why if he retired today, even though he's been in Florida for nine seasons (correct?), I still would not consider his number to qualify for retired. However, even if he doesn't win a Cup with us, but stays with us for another nine seasons, I'd think it might deserve recognition for showing dedication for staying with the same club for his whole career. You don't see much of that anymore with players moving around all the time.
I think you truly do have to set the bar high. Beezer doesn't measure up. Other than 1996do any of his other seasons with the Cats stand out in your mind?
If you retire Beezer's #, what about Mellanby? Or other guys from that team?
He's a fan favourite - that doesn't mean you retire his number.
No. You have to be a HOF caliber player for an extended time, or at the very least carry your team to a cup IMO to warrant that type of an honor. Beezer was my first favorite Panther and was fantastic during his time here, but that's not worthy of retiring his number.
I'm with 27/7. I want to see a sure a first ballot Hall-of-Famer and Stanley Cup at a minimum. Somebody who's number makes you think of them. For instance, 99&66. But, I'm strict about those things.
I'm with 27/7. I want to see a sure a first ballot Hall-of-Famer and Stanley Cup at a minimum. Somebody who's number makes you think of them. For instance, 99&66. But, I'm strict about those things.
You realize how rare that is? This isn't 50 years ago when the number of teams were limited and odds pretty much guaranteed your team would end up with a HoF caliber player once a decade. If we make the standards that high there won't be more than 3 names in the rafters 100 years from now.
You realize how rare that is? This isn't 50 years ago when the number of teams were limited and odds pretty much guaranteed your team would end up with a HoF caliber player once a decade. If we make the standards that high there won't be more than 3 names in the rafters 100 years from now.
I don't really see this as a problem. Teams don't just retire numbers to fill the rafter. You have to earn it.
Luongo forced his way out instead when times were tough instead of sticking it out. Luongo was also entering his prime while Vanbiesbrouck was finishing his career up and went to chase a trophy
I disagree.
He was shocked to find out he was traded.
If it wasn't for those two idiots in Keenan and Cohen, I doubt we would of traded him in the first place.
IIRC he expected to get a contract, not to be dealt.
Beezer was an All Star for 3 of 5 years he was here, MVPed us to the Stanley Cup final. Most wins and shutouts for a US born goalie.
At least give him a bronze outside because he, as a Panther, was probably the coolest looking goalie ever.
I still picture him as the all time face of the franchise. I gave Bure to Vancouver lol.
Adam Graves got his #9 co-retired by the Rangers mostly as a fan favorite (not that he didn't earn it).
You realize how rare that is? This isn't 50 years ago when the number of teams were limited and odds pretty much guaranteed your team would end up with a HoF caliber player once a decade. If we make the standards that high there won't be more than 3 names in the rafters 100 years from now.
I won't be around 100 years from now, so I don't care. What I do care about is retiring a jersey number(which means no player may never wear it again) from a player who doesn't deserve it. Ridiculous.
