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Would you still do the Hodgson trade?

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Old
06-27-2012, 12:33 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
This pondering lead me to the question..... What if the Duckies were all like "Ryan for Hodgson, Pysyk, and a 1st"

Or something like that..., replace Hodgson with Ennis if you like that better...do you do it.... I think I probably would simply because I wanna maximize my resources.....
I would be more open to dealing Ennis or Hodgson now. But, I'd try and formulate the deal around Roy instead of those two and up the other parts of the deal.

And I'd lean towards moving Ennis before moving Hodgson.

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06-27-2012, 12:36 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats an interesting question. I would so no to Hodgson but yes if it was Ennis.
You are entitled to your opinion, but it boggles my mind that we were all watching the same team and people find more value in Hodgson than Ennis. I just don't get this. Ennis what light-years more effective than CoHo last season and they are the same age.

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06-27-2012, 12:37 PM
  #28
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I like to move Roy too.... But I don't think they would do it for Ryan....

I just look at a year from now we're gonna have centres-a-go-go.... Which is sweet.... But if you could move just one of them for Robert Ryan I think you do it....even if it's one of the exciting young ones.

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06-27-2012, 12:39 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
My issue is in team building. We have 4 very good, very young centers. 3 of them are scoring, and 1 of them is checking type. Out of the 3 scoring centers, Hodgson, Grigs and Ennis, I would rank Hodgson as having the least upside. Now, if we were to look for one thing to add to this team, it would be a big nasty guy that can score, which is exactly what Kassian is. It's not the worst problem in the world, but the way it fell, Hodgson looks like the odd man to me.
I guess it depends what you value in "upside"

I think if both Ennis and Hodgson reached their ceiling in potential, then Hodgson is vastly more valuable.

Hodgson reaching his potential is a Parise type of all around star player

Ennis reaching his potential is an offensive spark plug Briere type of impact player.

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06-27-2012, 12:41 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You are entitled to your opinion, but it boggles my mind that we were all watching the same team and people find more value in Hodgson than Ennis. I just don't get this. Ennis what light-years more effective than CoHo last season and they are the same age.
While true, I think Hodgson's potential represents more of what this team needs long-term. You can make the argument he'll never get there, but the chance that he might is enticing enough for me and others to want to keep him.

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06-27-2012, 12:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You are entitled to your opinion, but it boggles my mind that we were all watching the same team and people find more value in Hodgson than Ennis. I just don't get this. Ennis what light-years more effective than CoHo last season and they are the same age.
I can see both side of the argument...

I'm operating under the assumption that a year from now Grigorenko is going to compete and hopefully be the #1 scoring line guy.....

I think that Hodgson is more suited for a second line 2 way role, with an Ott type on line 3, eventually Girgensons.....

That leaves Ennis on the outside looking in from the center position...

So I'm asking myself... If Ennis the winger + prospect + Pick a good deal for a legitimate top line winger..... Probably.

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06-27-2012, 12:42 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You are entitled to your opinion, but it boggles my mind that we were all watching the same team and people find more value in Hodgson than Ennis. I just don't get this. Ennis what light-years more effective than CoHo last season and they are the same age.
I think it is a matter of style: Grigorenko is more suited to replacing what Ennis brings than what Hodgson brings.

Ennis/Grigorenko can be the Briere, Hodgson can be the Drury (one could argue so can Girgensons, but he's a few years from being that kind of player).

Having said that...Ennis/Hodgson+Pysyk+1st is too much for my likings.

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06-27-2012, 12:42 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats an interesting question. I would so no to Hodgson but yes if it was Ennis.
Agreed.

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06-27-2012, 12:44 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
I can see both side of the argument...

I'm operating under the assumption that a year from now Grigorenko is going to compete and hopefully be the #1 scoring line guy.....

I think that Hodgson is more suited for a second line 2 way role, with an Ott type on line 3, eventually Girgensons.....

That leaves Ennis on the outside looking in from the center position...

So I'm asking myself... If Ennis the winger + prospect + Pick a good deal for a legitimate top line winger..... Probably.
agreed... if "reaching their ceiling" is a level playing field... then the idea center lineup 2-3 years from now is :
1 Grigorenko
2 Hodgson
3 Girgensons

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06-27-2012, 12:44 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
agreed... if "reaching their ceiling" is a level playing field... then the idea center lineup 2-3 years from now is :
1 Grigorenko
2 Hodgson
3 Girgensons
Thats how I see it as well.

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06-27-2012, 12:45 PM
  #36
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Yes x59662. Centers should be hoarded by us, not selectively limited to a group of just three with talent/ability.

Our most glaring weakness was down the middle. Keeping Roy and adding Grigs, with Cody and Ennis, is a good group to start the year with if you have to. Only way I trade Roy is for different kinds of center depth.

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06-27-2012, 12:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
While true, I think Hodgson's potential represents more of what this team needs long-term. You can make the argument he'll never get there, but the chance that he might is enticing enough for me and others to want to keep him.
The Gary Roberts boot camp and diet program has got me SPRUNG for some Hodgson right now....


And while I Love me some Ennis too, he is 5'9" 155... That's a pretty small frame. I know he plays hard and hasn't been overly injured etc.... But you have to consider that in the equation. even Briere has 25 lbs on the guy. Gerbe has 20 lbs on him, St Louis too...

It's reality.

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06-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Yes x59662. Centers should be hoarded by us, not selectively limited to a group of just three with talent/ability.

Our most glaring weakness was down the middle. Keeping Roy and adding Grigs, with Cody and Ennis, is a good group to start the year with if you have to. Only way I trade Roy is for different kinds of center depth.
Bolded is the point of this exercise....

I think we have too many of the same kind of centers.... Particularly if, and it seems like a popula opinion, we add a vet 3rd liner Steve Ott type.... Then we have 3guys suited for that 2C role.

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06-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I guess it depends what you value in "upside"

I think if both Ennis and Hodgson reached their ceiling in potential, then Hodgson is vastly more valuable.

Hodgson reaching his potential is a Parise type of all around star player

Ennis reaching his potential is an offensive spark plug Briere type of impact player.
Fair enough, but I wouldn't agree with you that an in his prime Parise type is "vastly" more valuable than a Briere type. I would also argue that Ennis is much further ahead on his curve than Hodgson is at the same age, making me think that Ennis is more likely to fulfil his full potential.

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06-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats how I see it as well.
1. you put the elite offensive talent around Grigorenko, forcing other teams to check them

2. you put Hodgson in a "complete" 2nd line role. Good at both ends. With wingers that play the "complete game, like Pommer

3. Girgensons gets the hard shifts, against other teams top lines, in the d zone, after a goal scored, etc... you put speed and size around him and punish the opponents skilled players.

The concern I have with Ennis... is that to maximize him, you can't build the type of lineup I mapped out above, because the only place he fits is on the top line... a role i don't think he could handle (being the line receiving the top checking of the opponent).

With Ennis, you have to build a replica of the co caps era, where Ennis is in the Roy role. I dont think that model wins in the playoffs.

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06-27-2012, 12:52 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Fair enough, but I wouldn't agree with you that an in his prime Parise type is "vastly" more valuable than a Briere type. I would also argue that Ennis is much further ahead on his curve than Hodgson is at the same age, making me think that Ennis is more likely to fulfil his full potential.
I think Parise types (Being a top offensive talent while simulaneously being a complete/200 ft player) are the MOST valuable forwards.

Offensive only types, like Briere... no matter how clutch... are less valuable IMO.

I think Ennis is slightly further along in development, due to Hodgson missing a year of development.

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06-27-2012, 12:53 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
1. you put the elite offensive talent around Grigorenko, forcing other teams to check them

2. you put Hodgson in a "complete" 2nd line role. Good at both ends. With wingers that play the "complete game, like Pommer

3. Girgensons gets the hard shifts, against other teams top lines, in the d zone, after a goal scored, etc... you put speed and size around him and punish the opponents skilled players.

The concern I have with Ennis... is that to maximize him, you can't build the type of lineup I mapped out above, because the only place he fits is on the top line... a role i don't think he could handle (being the line receiving the top checking of the opponent).

With Ennis, you have to build a replica of the co caps era, where Ennis is in the Roy role. I dont think that model wins in the playoffs
.

Bolded for truth.

I've come to a decision assuming we're going to keep the team as is....Ennis needs to be on the wing in he long term plans if we keep him.... He was successful there.

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06-27-2012, 12:57 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Fair enough, but I wouldn't agree with you that an in his prime Parise type is "vastly" more valuable than a Briere type. I would also argue that Ennis is much further ahead on his curve than Hodgson is at the same age, making me think that Ennis is more likely to fulfil his full potential.
Hodgson's development was delayed by a back injury that was misdiagnosed. Its part of the reason for the friction between him and the Nucks. The time wasted finding out the problem and correcting it delayed his development. He is essentially one year behiond Ennis developmentally for that reason. Last summer was his first chance to push himself hard in offseason workouts.

Also being ahead of someone at such an early stage of both of their careers doesn't mean he is more likely to reach his potential. If Ennis is ahead at this point then he may reach his potential first. But it really has nothing to do with Hodgson to be honest. Plus guys usually don't hit their prime until their mid/upper 20s. These two have a few years to go before that time.

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06-27-2012, 12:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
agreed... if "reaching their ceiling" is a level playing field... then the idea center lineup 2-3 years from now is :
1 Grigorenko
2 Hodgson
3 Girgensons
Yeah... And it's not Hodgson over Ennis in regards to talent but more playing style fit....

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06-27-2012, 01:07 PM
  #45
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Yes and No

-Yes because Hodgson is our future #1 or 2 center and Sulzer is an upgrade over Gragnani
-No because a line of Kassian-Girgensons-Foligno would be awesome

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06-27-2012, 01:09 PM
  #46
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I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't impressed with Hodgson's center game at all. I think he could be a pretty darn good winger and that's where I think we should look at him as. There were two many times where he couldn't handle the D man's pass coming out of the zone in the center of the ice. He also isn't the playmaker I thought he was. Not to mention he isn't overly fast so it will be tougher for him to get back. I see a lot of winger in him, more than I see in Ennis. Ennis looks like a center out there, Hodgson does not.

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06-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't impressed with Hodgson's center game at all. I think he could be a pretty darn good winger and that's where I think we should look at him as. There were two many times where he couldn't handle the D man's pass coming out of the zone in the center of the ice. He also isn't the playmaker I thought he was. Not to mention he isn't overly fast so it will be tougher for him to get back. I see a lot of winger in him, more than I see in Ennis. Ennis looks like a center out there, Hodgson does not.
So he can't catch or make passes and he can't skate, put him on the wing. Frankly I saw a completely different player than you and he became more and more effective as his time here wore on.


Btw, he was tried for a bit on wing in Van and it didn't work out. he doesn't like playing wing.

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06-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't impressed with Hodgson's center game at all. I think he could be a pretty darn good winger and that's where I think we should look at him as. There were two many times where he couldn't handle the D man's pass coming out of the zone in the center of the ice. He also isn't the playmaker I thought he was. Not to mention he isn't overly fast so it will be tougher for him to get back. I see a lot of winger in him, more than I see in Ennis. Ennis looks like a center out there, Hodgson does not.
You figured all of this out in his first 20 games with a new team, eh?

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06-27-2012, 01:15 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't impressed with Hodgson's center game at all.
He's 100% a center. Everything about his game screams center.

Quote:
I think he could be a pretty darn good winger and that's where I think we should look at him as.
This is just something you come up with because you are a bigger fan of Ennis. Nothing about Hodgson's game says winger at all...


Quote:
There were two many times where he couldn't handle the D man's pass coming out of the zone in the center of the ice.
I have the same recollection. And I chalk it up to playing a new system with new teammates... more then it being a deficiency in his game (the guy was drafted 10th overall, and was playing center the entire year on a stanley cup contender... i dont think handling passes as a center is going to be an issue )

Quote:
He also isn't the playmaker I thought he was.
I thought he made better passing plays in the Ozone then anyone to wear the jersey since Briere left.

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Not to mention he isn't overly fast so it will be tougher for him to get back.
He missed an entire year of development and conditioning.

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I see a lot of winger in him, more than I see in Ennis. Ennis looks like a center out there, Hodgson does not.
of course you do.

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06-27-2012, 01:18 PM
  #50
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Ennis and Miller are the two main reasons this team almost made a miracle run into the playoffs last year. Clearly, he was instrumental to this team winning, and were talking about him not being a fit going forward. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around this one.

I don't think there is only one model to building a winning team, but a golden rule for me would be to keep the best players. Until Hodgson proves that he can be on par with Ennis, I take Ennis every day of the week. I get the fit argument, I just can't jump on board. Just my two cents.

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