HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Garrison or Luongo

View Poll Results: You must pick one - sign Garrison or add Luongo.
Add Luongo 29 42.65%
Re-sign Garrison (5 years - $25 million) 39 57.35%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-27-2012, 08:40 AM
  #1
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,472
vCash: 500
Garrison or Luongo

Would you rather have Garrison at $5M per year for 5 years or Luongo?

You must pick one (none of the above is not an option for the purposes of this poll).



Luongo's contract : salary / cap hit 2011-12 6,725,000 5,325,000
2012-13 6,725,000 5,325,000
2013-14 6,725,000 5,325,000
2014-15 6,725,000 5,325,000
2015-16 6,725,000 5,325,000
2016-17 6,725,000 5,325,000
2017-18 6,725,000 5,325,000
2018-19 3,375,000 5,325,000
2019-20 1,625,000 5,325,000
2020-21 1,000,000 5,325,000
2021-22 1,000,000 5,325,000

Looks like Luongo makes 6,725,000 for 6 years vs Garrison 5,000,000 for 5 years

__________________




angry_treefrog is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 08:45 AM
  #2
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,069
vCash: 500
I'm actually gonna go with Luongo. He's a known quantity, plus if it's who gives us a better chance of making the playoffs this season, Luongo or Garrison, it's Luongo. I like Gary, but he's not worth that kind of money. He could have just had one big year and then slide back a bit. Signed for big money for that long, we could easily have the most overpaid blueline in the league soon. If Luongo was signed for 3 more years at 6.7M nobody would have a problem with it.

Markstrom Rules is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 08:51 AM
  #3
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Garrison.

Last year he was half of the best shutdown tandem in the league.

This year he was one of the top goal scoring defensemen in the league.

We have solid present goaltending in Theodore. We have solid future goaltending in Markstrom. What we won't have, if Garrison is allowed to leave, is one of the best slapshots from the point and solid transitional defense in one 6'2" 220 pound package.

I really don't understand how this is even a question. Honestly I don't even understand how trading for Luongo is a question. I can't understand you people sometimes.

And I do like Luongo and would gladly take him back if not for that contract.

Clint is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 08:54 AM
  #4
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,069
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Garrison.

Last year he was half of the best shutdown tandem in the league.

This year he was one of the top goal scoring defensemen in the league.

We have solid present goaltending in Theodore. We have solid future goaltending in Markstrom. What we won't have, if Garrison is allowed to leave, is one of the best slapshots from the point and solid transitional defense in one 6'2" 220 pound package.

I really don't understand how this is even a question. Honestly I don't even understand how trading for Luongo is a question. I can't understand you people sometimes.

And I do like Luongo and would gladly take him back if not for that contract.
You don't understand Tallon?

Markstrom Rules is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:04 AM
  #5
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
You don't understand Tallon?
First, we don't know how hard Tallon's pursuing Luongo. Second, we don't know the specifics of the Garrison offer. All we've heard are rumors.

Third, is it a crime to disagree with the GM, even if it is Tallon? Has "In Tallon We Trust" become some sort of cultish creed around here that when questioned damages my credibility? Because I remember when it was "In Martin We Trust" and "In Keenan We Trust" and "In Dudley We Trust." Give me a break.

If he trades for Luongo while forsaking the opportunity to re-sign Garrison then no, I don't understand Tallon.

Clint is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:05 AM
  #6
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Garrison.

Last year he was half of the best shutdown tandem in the league.

This year he was one of the top goal scoring defensemen in the league.

We have solid present goaltending in Theodore. We have solid future goaltending in Markstrom. What we won't have, if Garrison is allowed to leave, is one of the best slapshots from the point and solid transitional defense in one 6'2" 220 pound package.

I really don't understand how this is even a question. Honestly I don't even understand how trading for Luongo is a question. I can't understand you people sometimes.
I'm not pretending to know the right answer, but I think you are over-valuing Garrison & under-valuing Luongo. I don't think it is quite as clear cut as you do.

I certainly respect your opinion, and yes, time may show you to be correct. On the other hand, we have far more data points on Luongo than Garrison. You know what you get with Luongo. You are paying for potential with Garrison.

Last year, Garrison at $5 would have gotten you laughed at. This year, not so much. I'll grant you, he was certainly missed when he was out of the lineup in the postseason - maybe we win the series if he stays healthy. On the other hand, once teams figured him out early in the season, his scoring disappeared. I think last year will be his career high for goals.

angry_treefrog is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:08 AM
  #7
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
First, we don't know how hard Tallon's pursuing Luongo. Second, we don't know the specifics of the Garrison offer. All we've heard are rumors.

Third, is it a crime to disagree with the GM, even if it is Tallon? Has "In Tallon We Trust" become some sort of cultish creed around here that when questioned damages my credibility? Because I remember when it was "In Martin We Trust" and "In Keenan We Trust" and "In Dudley We Trust." Give me a break.

If he trades for Luongo while forsaking the opportunity to re-sign Garrison then no, I don't understand Tallon.
HFBoards Panthers forum = cult.

Why else do you think you are back here despite your best efforts to stay away?

angry_treefrog is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:15 AM
  #8
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,069
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
First, we don't know how hard Tallon's pursuing Luongo. Second, we don't know the specifics of the Garrison offer. All we've heard are rumors.

Third, is it a crime to disagree with the GM, even if it is Tallon? Has "In Tallon We Trust" become some sort of cultish creed around here that when questioned damages my credibility? Because I remember when it was "In Martin We Trust" and "In Keenan We Trust" and "In Dudley We Trust." Give me a break.

If he trades for Luongo while forsaking the opportunity to re-sign Garrison then no, I don't understand Tallon.
Even if it's mild interest, Tallon still has interest in Luongo. No one knows specifics, but Lindsay said that he's heard the Panthers are not interested in going more than 3-3.5M/ year for Gary, because they fear last season may have been a bit of a fluke. It would make some sense as to why a deal hasn't been reached yet. The rumor that he'd get 5yrs/25M in free agency is pretty realistic.

I never questioned your credibility, but you did say "I can't understand you people sometimes." I'm just saying it's not as far out there as you make it seem. Luongo is a known quantity, Garrison isn't.

Markstrom Rules is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:18 AM
  #9
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
...I think you are over-valuing Garrison & under-valuing Luongo.
I'll give you that, but it's contextual. Keep their contract statuses in mind. Garrison's about to hit the open market, which inflates his value because we have to compensate for other teams' willingness to potentially overpay. His value is higher to us than is Luongo's simply because Theodore and Markstrom can replace Luongo's contributions, whereas we don't really have anyone who can replace Garrison's.

Quote:
You are paying for potential with Garrison.
You're not. There may be more data points with Luongo, sure, but Garrison's 27 now. He's slowly and steadily proven himself despite being a late-bloomer. If his game doesn't improve at all I'd still be happy wth 5 years, $25 million.

Quote:
I think last year will be his career high for goals.
Honestly, so do I. He's still be worth it, if for the ability to be a shutdown guy for 25 minutes a night.

Clint is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:19 AM
  #10
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
HFBoards Panthers forum = cult.

Why else do you think you are back here despite your best efforts to stay away?
Freakin' tell me about it.

Clint is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:22 AM
  #11
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
I never questioned your credibility, but you did say "I can't understand you people sometimes." I'm just saying it's not as far out there as you make it seem. Luongo is a known quantity, Garrison isn't.
Would it have been better if I had instead said, "I can't understand the opinions of you people sometimes."

I didn't mean to make a personal swipe, and I know you're not questioning my credibility, but the Tallon comment just didn't sit with me well.

In any case, the way I see it is this: Losing Garrison harms our team more than taking on Luongo improves it. Both on the ice and with the salary cap. It's as simple as that.

Clint is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:27 AM
  #12
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,976
vCash: 500
I would rather have Semin at 6mill a year for 5 years than either of them.

Not fighting the question... I don't know. It's tough to stomach that much money being invested in the D-core. Kulikov is getting a raise so we'd probably have one of the most expensive d-cores in the league. I think with Luongo in net we would solidify that position for the next 4 years with a top 10 goalie. I just hate that contract so much and he'd become unmovable. Garrison's contract would run the prime of his career and I think he's the real deal. Unlike Luongo you might be able to move Garrison if he loses favor.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:28 AM
  #13
SoupyFIN
Moderator
Lu ♥
 
SoupyFIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Finland
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 50
In a matter of picking your poison with contracts, I'll take my chances with Luongo. If Garrison was asking for 5x2 then it would be fine, but five years; that's too much of a risk with Jovo and Campbell already on the books. Besides, we have many great young guys coming up and locking G52 long-term would only create a logjam on D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
We have solid present goaltending in Theodore.
Theo is one of the hardest goalies to predict in the whole league. He has an on-year, which is usually followed by an off-year. I don't trust him one bit until I see him play next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Kulikov is getting a raise so we'd probably have one of the most expensive d-cores in the league.
People are expecting waaaaaay too much salary for Kuli around here. He's proven nothing yet and should be paid like one.

SoupyFIN is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 09:35 AM
  #14
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
In a matter of picking your poison with contracts, I'll take my chances with Luongo. If Garrison was asking for 5x2 then it would be fine, but five years; that's too much of a risk with Jovo and Campbell already on the books. Besides, we have many great young guys coming up and locking G52 long-term would only create a logjam on D.

Theo is one of the hardest goalies to predict in the whole league. He has an on-year, which is usually followed by an off-year. I don't trust him one bit until I see him play next year.

People are expecting waaaaaay too much salary for Kuli around here. He's proven nothing yet and should be paid like one.
Kulikov has proven a lot actually. You can see a stud d-man in the making. He came in playing big minutes as an 18/19 year old and has continued to improve. He is a second pairing d-man right now and without a doubt has top pairing potential. He's going to get 2.5-3.5 million a year, easy. It could be more if it's a long term contract.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 10:13 AM
  #15
wint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Inside
Posts: 716
vCash: 500
Garrison. But that has less to do with Garrison or Luongo and more to do with the relative values of #2/3 defensemen and goalies.

First, there's simple supply and demand. Teams need 4-8 good defensemen, and only 1-2 good goalies. And there's a large supply of quality goalies (that's why we didn't get any good offers for Vokoun when we tried to unload him at the deadline in the past—everyone already has their starter).

Second, there's a lot of uncertainty in goalie performance. Trying to predict next year's performance from this year's numbers is nearly impossible. Recent cup-winners Quick, Thomas, Niemi, Fleury and Osgood ranked from 16 to 24 in the league for SV% in the year before they won the cup.

You want a goalie good enough to get you into the playoffs, who has the potential to get hot at the right time. The Panthers had that this year with Theodore at $1.5 million and got just as far as Luongo at $6.7 million.

Going with the goalie just isn't a good investment when you're payroll is constrained like it is in Florida. I'll take Garrison.

wint is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 10:14 AM
  #16
Knightmare
Registered User
 
Knightmare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SoFla
Country: United States
Posts: 385
vCash: 500
I love Garry, but he's just not worth 5x5

Knightmare is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 10:35 AM
  #17
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,837
vCash: 500
Key difference in the contracts. Luongo 42 at the end of his, Garrison 32 at the end of his. Case closed.
Will Garrison, at 32 and at the end of his contract, still be capable at least physically of playing at a high level? Very likely. Will Luongo,who in 5 years will be 38 and still have 5 years to go on his including one at the age of 39 making $6,750,000 and all 5 remaining years a cap hit of $5,325,000, iffy.


Last edited by Georgia Panther: 06-27-2012 at 10:49 AM.
Georgia Panther is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 11:02 AM
  #18
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
I'm not pretending to know the right answer, but I think you are over-valuing Garrison & under-valuing Luongo. I don't think it is quite as clear cut as you do.

I certainly respect your opinion, and yes, time may show you to be correct. On the other hand, we have far more data points on Luongo than Garrison. You know what you get with Luongo. You are paying for potential with Garrison.

Last year, Garrison at $5 would have gotten you laughed at. This year, not so much. I'll grant you, he was certainly missed when he was out of the lineup in the postseason - maybe we win the series if he stays healthy. On the other hand, once teams figured him out early in the season, his scoring disappeared. I think last year will be his career high for goals.
Another way of looking at it is Tallon is paying a 36, 37 and 38yo Jovo $4,150,000. Garrison would be getting $5,000,000 for years 27,28,29,30 and 31. Which would be the better contract? As I told George Richards and he agreed with me, a very poor case can be argued that Ed Jovonovski should be paid more by the Florida Panthers than Jason Garrison. I think $4.5mil will get it done especially if Vancouver can't trade Luongo, they can't afford both Luongo and Garrison, and we shouldn't help them out by taking Luongo's contract off their hands.

Georgia Panther is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 11:17 AM
  #19
MillarWithASave
HUBY DOOBY SHUTUP
 
MillarWithASave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Melbourne, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 4,145
vCash: 500
I'd rather Dale Tallon get a D-Man through trade or FA, if Garrison really wants 5Mx5 then he can walk, I actually really like Garrison and I hope there would be someway he could play next year, but most likely we can find another guy to fit his spot.

MillarWithASave is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 12:01 PM
  #20
p9ers
Registered User
 
p9ers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 493
vCash: 500
You guys should take a look at the Habs seasons, especially the one after they lose key power play player. With Streit, their power play finished first and they finished first in the Est. They then lost Streit, thought they could replace him, but they didn't. They finished 8 with a sub-par power play.

If our power play gets average, we'll have an hard time making the playoff. Garrison is more important imo.

p9ers is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 12:30 PM
  #21
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,587
vCash: 500
Garrison.

And since we'd be paying too much for the D core, trade Kulikov to Edmonton for one of their offensive studs.

Erick is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 12:37 PM
  #22
FlaPnthrsPunk
Our Time Will Come
 
FlaPnthrsPunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Coconut Creek, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,498
vCash: 500
I don't like either option. Just from having one great season, I don't Garrison deserves that kind of money. I've already said why I don't want Luongo here with that ridiculous contract. I'd rather explore other options or hopefully Garrison can sign for a bit cheaper.

FlaPnthrsPunk is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 12:38 PM
  #23
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Garrison.

And since we'd be paying too much for the D core, trade Kulikov to Edmonton for one of their offensive studs.
who did you have in mind?

angry_treefrog is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 12:40 PM
  #24
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaPnthrsPunk View Post
I don't like either option. Just from having one great season, I don't Garrison deserves that kind of money. I've already said why I don't want Luongo here with that ridiculous contract. I'd rather explore other options or hopefully Garrison can sign for a bit cheaper.
Yellow flag.

From original post-

"You must pick one (none of the above is not an option for the purposes of this poll)."

angry_treefrog is offline  
Old
06-27-2012, 12:41 PM
  #25
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 27,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Garrison.

And since we'd be paying too much for the D core, trade Kulikov to Edmonton for one of their offensive studs.
This.

It's up to Garrison and his agent, though. And I'm not sure why we can't have both if we move the salary, just depends on how much he wants. However, Steeg and the others' deals play in as well.

And no, you can't disagree with Tallon, unless you're fine with being sacrificed to the hockey gods. (and I won't miss ya! Haha)

__________________
So you're saying there's a chance!
Laus723 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.