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Would you still do the Hodgson trade?

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Old
06-27-2012, 12:19 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
So he can't catch or make passes and he can't skate, put him on the wing. Frankly I saw a completely different player than you and he became more and more effective as his time here wore on.


Btw, he was tried for a bit on wing in Van and it didn't work out. he doesn't like playing wing.
I thought he showed more of being a center than Ennis to me. The defining difference to me is their skating, Ennis' skating is elite and Hodgson's is below average. If Hodgson could skate like Ennis he would be better IMO. Ennis put up more points, I attribute that to chemistry and quality linemates. Hodgson was playing with injured Vanek and Tropp.


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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ennis and Miller are the two main reasons this team almost made a miracle run into the playoffs last year. Clearly, he was instrumental to this team winning, and were talking about him not being a fit going forward. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around this one.

I don't think there is only one model to building a winning team, but a golden rule for me would be to keep the best players. Until Hodgson proves that he can be on par with Ennis, I take Ennis every day of the week. I get the fit argument, I just can't jump on board. Just my two cents.
I agree with you, so why trade either of them?

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06-27-2012, 12:21 PM
  #52
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To answer two questions...

I make the Hodgson trade again without blinking every single time.

I'm okay with trading either Hodgson or Ennis for Ryan. I'd rather keep Hodgson though.

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06-27-2012, 12:22 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ennis and Miller are the two main reasons this team almost made a miracle run into the playoffs last year. Clearly, he was instrumental to this team winning, and were talking about him not being a fit going forward. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around this one.

I don't think there is only one model to building a winning team, but a golden rule for me would be to keep the best players. Until Hodgson proves that he can be on par with Ennis, I take Ennis every day of the week. I get the fit argument, I just can't jump on board. Just my two cents.

No one is saying Ennis sucked or that he didn't matter down the stretch. We're saying long run Hodgson can bring a more rounded game and it will be needed.

Going forward we will have a lot of centers pushing for roster spots; Sundher, Catenacci, Grigorenko, Girgensons.Only Girgensons has a two way game of that group.

I would prefer not to trade either Ennis or Hodgson to be honest.

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06-27-2012, 12:23 PM
  #54
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I'd still do the deal if it was up to me. And they still need more of the type of game Kassian brings -- they replaced it in the pipeline with a hard player like Girgensons (and with depth like Kea) but on roster, it's still something they could use.

Also, who's to say Ennis doesn't go back to the wing where he can free wheel, push the pace and provide speed to any of the likely future centers?

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06-27-2012, 12:25 PM
  #55
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You figured all of this out in his first 20 games with a new team, eh?
That was my impression of him here. Van plays a totally different game than us so it is tough to judge what he did there and say it will transfer over here flawlessly. If I am not mistaken, I think he even got demoted at some point during his time here so it is not like Ruff wasn't watching the same game. At one point he was centering the fourth line.

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06-27-2012, 12:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I'd still do the deal if it was up to me. And they still need more of the type of game Kassian brings -- they replaced it in the pipeline with a hard player like Girgensons (and with depth like Kea) but on roster, it's still something they could use.

Also, who's to say Ennis doesn't go back to the wing where he can free wheel, push the pace and provide speed to any of the likely future centers?
I know I'd like to see a line like Ennis-Grigorenko-Vanek......

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06-27-2012, 12:26 PM
  #57
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Would've seemed absolutely insane six months ago that we'd be asking ourselves if we'd undo a deal because we have too many centers...

and because of that, there isn't a chance in hell I'd do that over. Having too many centers is a problem that teams long to have because center depth is absolutely key in the playoffs. Some of these answers seem to imply that the player we got in the brief 20-game sample size is the sort of player Hodgson is going to be for his career here, but he's freaking twenty-two.. After adjusting to the team, getting settled down, finally going through a training camp, etc, I feel pretty comfortable saying he'll be one of the Sabres top three point getters this season.

Like Jame said, I see Buffalo's future at center as 1 Grigorenko, 2 Hodgson, 3 Girgensons. If one of those guys goes down, they could easily plug in Ennis during their absence. However, if the Sabres were to trade Ennis or Hodgson and one of them were to go down, suddenly it becomes a big hole. Absolutely nothing wrong with having more than enough guys to play center.

... with that being said, I'd still trade Ennis for a premier player, like Bobby Ryan.

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06-27-2012, 12:26 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
That was my impression of him here. Van plays a totally different game than us so it is tough to judge what he did there and say it will transfer over here flawlessly. If I am not mistaken, I think he even got demoted at some point during his time here so it is not like Ruff wasn't watching the same game. At one point he was centering the fourth line.
No, he initially centered Ennis/Stafford then centered Tropp/Vanek. If he was centering 4th liners it was due to getting an extra shift. Ruff loved him and had him playing in all situations by the end of the year.

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06-27-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't impressed with Hodgson's center game at all. I think he could be a pretty darn good winger and that's where I think we should look at him as. There were two many times where he couldn't handle the D man's pass coming out of the zone in the center of the ice. He also isn't the playmaker I thought he was. Not to mention he isn't overly fast so it will be tougher for him to get back. I see a lot of winger in him, more than I see in Ennis. Ennis looks like a center out there, Hodgson does not.
I guess you also considered that he had been on the road for almost a month straight with Vancouver then Buffalo, and needed to learn a new system on the fly with almost no practices until after about 8 games here.

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06-27-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
That was my impression of him here. Van plays a totally different game than us so it is tough to judge what he did there and say it will transfer over here flawlessly. If I am not mistaken, I think he even got demoted at some point during his time here so it is not like Ruff wasn't watching the same game. At one point he was centering the fourth line.
The difference is you're talking about moving him to the wing after 20 games with a new team, which is just insane. He didn't even have a chance to go through any kind of training camp with Buffalo before being used in game situations. If you have that same opinion after this season then fine, but any kind of talk about moving him to a new position right now is just pointless.

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06-27-2012, 12:28 PM
  #61
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Definitely. Kid has skill/dedication/leadership and great vision on the ice. He has the potential to be a great play-making center. Looking for a breakout year next year.

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06-27-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ennis and Miller are the two main reasons this team almost made a miracle run into the playoffs last year. Clearly, he was instrumental to this team winning, and were talking about him not being a fit going forward. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around this one.
It takes a little deeper analysis

example : Miller
Was Miller truely the main difference maker? Or was it a complete D core that was healthy and used properly (and didn't feature MAG or Weber)

example : Ennis
Was Ennis the straw that stirred the drink? Or was Hodgson's acquisition, the subsequent center depth it created, and Ennis being able to FEAST on Easy minutes the true picture of impact?

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06-27-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I'd still do the deal if it was up to me. And they still need more of the type of game Kassian brings -- they replaced it in the pipeline with a hard player like Girgensons (and with depth like Kea) but on roster, it's still something they could use.

Also, who's to say Ennis doesn't go back to the wing where he can free wheel, push the pace and provide speed to any of the likely future centers?
Not to be too nitpicky.......


But are we talking about the game we wanted him to bring? Or they game he actually brought?

Because Foligno brought far more of what we hoped for in that regard than Kassian did.

EDIT: Its my way of saying that he wasn't as big of a loss in the toughness/physical department as some make his loss out to be.


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06-27-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
That was my impression of him here. Van plays a totally different game than us so it is tough to judge what he did there and say it will transfer over here flawlessly. If I am not mistaken, I think he even got demoted at some point during his time here so it is not like Ruff wasn't watching the same game. At one point he was centering the fourth line.
i dont recall this.
anyone else?

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06-27-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I know I'd like to see a line like Ennis-Grigorenko-Vanek......
His speed and offensive creativity can compliment just about anyone out there. I don't see a need to move him if he's capable of providing scoring. Who's to say he can't continue to develop and start making top d-pairs his personal ***** as he gains experience and confidence. Wing, center, just get him out there and let him create.

Hodgson got a lot tougher opposition checking assignments in Buffalo than he did in Vancouver. Ruff used him in all situations, vs. how the Canucks "built his value" with the time FES drew in Buffalo. He was killing penalties, getting d-zone draws, late game situations... His intellegence and positioning can make him a very good 2-way player as he matures. Having him now and Girgensons in a little while may give Buffalo a 1-2 checking tandem in the middle they haven't had since Brown emerged in the middle 12-13 years ago during one of Peca's abscences.

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06-27-2012, 12:35 PM
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i dont recall this.
anyone else?
Post-powerplay shifts with some of the non-PP personnel is all I recall. I may be mistaken.

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06-27-2012, 12:36 PM
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No, he initially centered Ennis/Stafford then centered Tropp/Vanek. If he was centering 4th liners it was due to getting an extra shift. Ruff loved him and had him playing in all situations by the end of the year.
Quote:
When it does, it might not be on a top line. The center practiced on the fourth line with left wing Brad Boyes and right wing Corey Tropp, the same duo he finished with during Monday's 3-2 overtime victory against Montreal.

Hodgson is coming off his least-productive outing with Buffalo. He skated just 11:07, a decrease of more than 10 minutes from the career-high 21:48 he logged Saturday in Ottawa. He has just one shot in the last three games after taking 11 in his initial five in Blue and Gold.
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sa...icle761919.ece

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06-27-2012, 12:37 PM
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His speed and offensive creativity can compliment just about anyone out there. I don't see a need to move him if he's capable of providing scoring. Who's to say he can't continue to develop and start making top d-pairs his personal ***** as he gains experience and confidence. Wing, center, just get him out there and let him create.

Hodgson got a lot tougher opposition checking assignments in Buffalo than he did in Vancouver. Ruff used him in all situations, vs. how the Canucks "built his value" with the time FES drew in Buffalo. He was killing penalties, getting d-zone draws, late game situations... His intellegence and positioning can make him a very good 2-way player as he matures. Having him now and Girgensons in a little while may give Buffalo a 1-2 checking tandem in the middle they haven't had since Brown emerged in the middle 12-13 years ago during one of Peca's abscences.
I don't see Ennis as a guy that you HAVE to move.

But, I also no longer view him as a guy that the Sabres HAVE to keep given what happened on Friday.

Especially if the Sabres think that Grigorenko can make the jump and give them roughly what Ennis would at center this year.

Ennis+ for Bobby Ryan is really intriguing to me.

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06-27-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Not to be too nitpicky.......


But are we talking about the game we wanted him to bring? Or they game he actually brought?

Because Foligno brought far more of what we hoped for in that regard than Kassian did.

EDIT: Its my way of saying that he wasn't as big of a loss in the toughness/physical department as some make it out to be.
More what he initially brought in his first few games and the promise of what he will develop into as an NHLer. They need guys bringing a heavy game. Foligno does, but one guy does not change the tenor of the team. His emergence made dealing Kassian easier, but it still does not provide the element of physicality that is still lacking from most of the forward lines overall.

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06-27-2012, 12:41 PM
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His speed and offensive creativity can compliment just about anyone out there. I don't see a need to move him if he's capable of providing scoring. Who's to say he can't continue to develop and start making top d-pairs his personal ***** as he gains experience and confidence. Wing, center, just get him out there and let him create.

Hodgson got a lot tougher opposition checking assignments in Buffalo than he did in Vancouver. Ruff used him in all situations, vs. how the Canucks "built his value" with the time FES drew in Buffalo. He was killing penalties, getting d-zone draws, late game situations... His intellegence and positioning can make him a very good 2-way player as he matures. Having him now and Girgensons in a little while may give Buffalo a 1-2 checking tandem in the middle they haven't had since Brown emerged in the middle 12-13 years ago during one of Peca's abscences.
He is going to have a lot of maturing to do...

Quote:
Since arriving in Buffalo 18 games ago, Hodgson has been on the ice for 15 Buffalo goals. However, heís been on the ice for 18 of the Sabresí 44 goals against. Thatís 41% of them.

Worse, the Sabres have been outscored 13 to 7 at even-strength with Hodgson on the ice. He has an even plus-minus on the year; he was a plus-8 when he left.

To be fair, some of this is due to bad bounces, but Codyís not doing himself any favours: the Sabres control 44.6% of Fenwick events when heís on the ice, which is a fancy way of saying the opposition has the puck a lot. Since the trade, only fourth-liner Matt Ellis has a worse Fenwick rating among Sabres, and heís been out with a knee injury for 3 weeks.

Basically, Cody remains what he was when he left: a gifted offensive player whose skating and backchecking problems would send the blood pressure of a defensive-minded coach like Alain Vigneault through the roof. Like the kids in Edmonton, Hodgson can score, but he canít yet outscore his defensive deficiencies, and heís not ready to star on a contender at this point.
http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/04...for-vancouver/

His two way game is completely overrated. The video on the link is pretty telling. Not only was Hodgson not fast enough to get back, but he stopped well before he was at the net while the leafs crashed the net. There was like 2 secs left, he should have crashed the net. You don't need to learn a system to understand what to do there.

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06-27-2012, 12:42 PM
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Yes this was during his first 10 games with the team where he was getting adjusted to being on a new team, new system, new teammates. Who is going to be able to create chemistry that quickly and effectively?

I saw better vision, better passing and a better shot than Ennis has in his games here than I've seen from Ennis his entire career.

That said, I do not want to move either of them, I think they are both studs. We finally have a glut for centers and everyone wants to move them!

He's 22 years old, dear god. If Bobby Ryan was available, why do you think Murray would want players like Hodgson/Ennis?

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His two way game is completely overrated. The video on the link is pretty telling. Not only was Hodgson not fast enough to get back, but he stopped well before he was at the net while the leafs crashed the net. There was like 2 secs left, he should have crashed the net. You don't need to learn a system to understand what to do there.
Way to nitpick one play, name your favorite player, I'll find a video of him doing something really stupid.

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06-27-2012, 12:44 PM
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He is going to have a lot of maturing to do...



http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/04...for-vancouver/

His two way game is completely overrated. The video on the link is pretty telling. Not only was Hodgson not fast enough to get back, but he stopped well before he was at the net while the leafs crashed the net. There was like 2 secs left, he should have crashed the net. You don't need to learn a system to understand what to do there.
A Vancouver sports blog has NO reason to cherry pick a single bad defensive cover to crap on Hodgson. No reason at all.....

/right

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06-27-2012, 12:45 PM
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Did you actually read the article? He played 21:48 against the Sens. Then late in the next game -vs- the habs He played some shifts on the 4th line in the 3rd period. Then he was right back up to 16:32 the next night and never looked back. Ruff told him to relax and not press since this was during his intial dry spell.

He played a few 3rd period shifts on the 4th line and for you that means he is a 4th liner?

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06-27-2012, 12:49 PM
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Did you actually read the article? He played 21:48 against the Sens. Then late in the next game -vs- the habs He played some shifts on the 4th line in the 3rd period. Then he was right back up to 16:32 the next night and never looked back. Ruff told him to relax and not press since this was during his intial dry spell.

He played a few 3rd period shifts on the 4th line and for you that means he is a 4th liner?
Did you read the article?? He played that night on the 4th and then the next day he was practicing with the fourth again.

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06-27-2012, 12:49 PM
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i don't see ennis as a guy that you have to move.

But, i also no longer view him as a guy that the sabres have to keep given what happened on friday.


especially if the sabres think that grigorenko can make the jump and give them roughly what ennis would at center this year.

ennis+ for bobby ryan is really intriguing to me.
100%

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