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Old
06-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
And you've read posts of people pretending to be experts explicitly perhaps? Just a suggestion: Maybe you should give people a break and not assume the most negative thing you can conclude about them when you don't share their opinion.

This isn't an expert only board after all.
I don't put a lot of value into the opinion of anyone who can close a book on a player after watching them play 15 games. It has nothing to do with whether or not I share that opinion or not. Maybe that's what I should have said instead.

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06-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #52
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I wonder if this will sour him in the Habs' eyes. If he continues to work hard and can improve his skating and faceoffs I still see him as a very solid potential 4th line centerman.

Hope the don't close the books on him because of this.

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06-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Too bad, would have liked to see him stick around longer.

Interesting to see we have so many experts here who saw all they ever needed to see from a player after 15 NHL games played.
Sometimes it is that obvious. There is a reason why he gave up on an NHL dream and went to play in Siberia.

I'll tell you why ... because it was obvious even to him.

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06-27-2012, 02:07 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't put a lot of value into the opinion of anyone who can close a book on a player after watching them play 15 games. It has nothing to do with whether or not I share that opinion or not. Maybe that's what I should have said instead.

I agree with you completely hoto, don't feel like you need to justify your comments to people who don't understand what kind of process there is for a guy coming over to play North America to become an NHL quality player.

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06-27-2012, 02:13 PM
  #55
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Probably the most boring player I've ever seen play for the team. Nothing offensively, decent defensively, no puck possession, no hitting, no strong forechecking, not particularly good at faceoffs. He did not do anything bad, but he never did anything good. Plenty of better players available that at least bring a single element that makes them stand out more.

Nothing against the guy, but he certainly wasn't special.

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06-27-2012, 02:13 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't put a lot of value into the opinion of anyone who can close a book on a player after watching them play 15 games. It has nothing to do with whether or not I share that opinion or not. Maybe that's what I should have said instead.
Very well.

You know however that 15 viewing/games is about the number some scouts have on a player before the draft right? All I'm saying is it's not too uncommon even in the hockey world. I wish we had more in the case of Engvist, but he's the one who decided to go the KHL route. His evaluation trumps anyone's evaluation.

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06-27-2012, 02:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Sometimes it is that obvious. There is a reason why he gave up on an NHL dream and went to play in Siberia.

I'll tell you why ... because it was obvious even to him.
Or...maybe...like EVERYONE else in the situation he decided he could make more money one way and decided it was best for him and his future to do that for now.

In 1999/2000 a 5 foot 11 d-man from Europe came over and played parts of a season with the Springfield Falcons. Put up 15 points in 43 games in the AHL and 5 points in 14 games in the ECHL. He also played 1 game in the IHL that season.

Then I guess it was "obvious" to him that he'd never be an NHL player so he went back to Europe.

Yes he may have been a few years younger than Enqvist at the time, but that player will pass the 500 games played mark in the NHL this year, health provided and may very well finish his career with 300+ points.

The point here? It's laughable when people like you proclaim a guy like Enqvist to never be a capable NHL'er, based on...seeing him play limited minutes in the NHL for a few games here and there? Especially considering how much he improved points wise from his first NA season to his second.

As well as people who watched Hamilton a lot saying how well he improved his 2 way play over the course of the season.

Oh...and the habs qualified him. He could have accepted that QO right then and there, and that would have used up one of the 50 spots available in the organization. So apparently Bergevin thinks highly enough of him that he was willing to use up a spot on him.

But I'm sure you know better than him right?

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06-27-2012, 02:20 PM
  #58
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Jeez... not liking the smugness in this thread. Don't appreciate being called an "expert" or being told that my opinion is basically worthless just because I'm not fond of Engqvist. Not cool.

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06-27-2012, 02:21 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Jeez... not liking the smugness in this thread. Don't appreciate being called an "expert" or being told that my opinion is basically worthless just because I'm not fond of Engqvist. Not cool.
Welcome to HFboards.

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06-27-2012, 02:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Oh...and the habs qualified him. He could have accepted that QO right then and there, and that would have used up one of the 50 spots available in the organization. So apparently Bergevin thinks highly enough of him that he was willing to use up a spot on him.

But I'm sure you know better than him right?
It was a depth move by Bergevin. I'd be willing to bet anything that he'll never play in the NHL.

Would you be willing to bet the opposite? I'm that confident.

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06-27-2012, 02:23 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't put a lot of value into the opinion of anyone who can close a book on a player after watching them play 15 games. It has nothing to do with whether or not I share that opinion or not. Maybe that's what I should have said instead.
Agreed 100%.

If every player was judged off his first 15 NHL games, then the league would look a lot different. Matt D'Agostini would be an all-star instead of a solid 3rd liner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
It was a depth move by Bergevin. I'd be willing to bet anything that he'll never play in the NHL.

Would you be willing to bet the opposite? I'm that confident.
Great bet now that he's in the KHL...

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Old
06-27-2012, 02:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Very well.

You know however that 15 viewing/games is about the number some scouts have on a player before the draft right? All I'm saying is it's not too uncommon even in the hockey world. I wish we had more in the case of Engvist, but he's the one who decided to go the KHL route. His evaluation trumps anyone's evaluation.
That's different - scouts have to make a decision with the sample size they're given to work with. No one here has to write off Engqvist as aggressively as some in this thread are. Was I blown away by Engqvist's time in Montreal? Not at all. Do I hate him for it? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Jeez... not liking the smugness in this thread. Don't appreciate being called an "expert" or being told that my opinion is basically worthless just because I'm not fond of Engqvist. Not cool.
I'm not liking the smugness of the people who almost seem thrilled to lose an asset for nothing because they saw all they needed to see from him in an absurdly short sample size. I don't understand why people are so eager to write off one guy for the 15 games he played here, but still want to give Benoit Pouliot (for example) endless chances on the hope he'll someday get it together.

I also don't understand why it's universally agreed we need a big centreman who is strong on faceoffs, can block shots, and play the PK...but seemingly don't want to bother trying to develop one ourselves. I'm not saying Engqvist was a lock to be that guy, I'm just saying he deserved a better shake than what 90% of this board gave him.

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06-27-2012, 02:52 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'm not liking the smugness of the people who almost seem thrilled to lose an asset for nothing because they saw all they needed to see from him in an absurdly short sample size. I don't understand why people are so eager to write off one guy for the 15 games he played here, but still want to give Benoit Pouliot (for example) endless chances on the hope he'll someday get it together.
I think your the one misreading. Go back and read the thread, nobody is "thrilled". Almost everybody before you made your post was "indifferent" imo. There was only one person who showed more than indifference imo.

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Originally Posted by PhysicX View Post
Hahahaha I second that.
Won't miss Engqvist one bit. Good riddance.
Other than this post, most people wished him luck and didn't really care. Your the one who over reacted imo in calling everyone "thrilled" that he is gone.

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06-27-2012, 02:55 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I think your the one misreading. Go back and read the thread, nobody is "thrilled". Almost everybody before you made your post was "indifferent" imo. There was only one person who showed more than indifference imo.



Other than this post, most people wished him luck and didn't really care. Your the one who over reacted imo in calling everyone "thrilled" that he is gone.
I'm not in the interest of singling out people, but you really need to go back and re-read the thread if that's what you think. I had three posts picked out before I got to the bottom of the first page.

And if you think "almost seem thrilled" (my exact quote) is an overreaction, I would double-check your definition on that word as well.

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06-27-2012, 02:56 PM
  #65
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This is funny

"Meh he never had a chance, or has a chance to be an NHL'er"

"How do you know? He's had limited NHL time and just 2 North american seasons. Seems presumptious to declare something like that"

"Wow people are so smug"

LoL, the people who are claiming others are being "smug" are the ones who came in here with their smug opinions in the first place.

Hope the glass is thick on your house boys, cause you be throwing some big ol' rocks

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06-27-2012, 02:57 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
It was a depth move by Bergevin. I'd be willing to bet anything that he'll never play in the NHL.

Would you be willing to bet the opposite? I'm that confident.
I don't care what you'd be willing to bet, or how confident you are.

Or if it was a "depth" move.

Bergevin was more than willing to use one of his 50 organizational contracts on Enqvist.

That means HE felt that Enqvist could contribute to the Montreal Canadiens organization on some level.

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06-27-2012, 03:00 PM
  #67
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Probably the best place for the guy right now, more cash than AHL anyway. That said, I'd be really surprised if we ever see him on this side of the Atlantic again...

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06-27-2012, 03:31 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
I don't care what you'd be willing to bet, or how confident you are.

Or if it was a "depth" move.

Bergevin was more than willing to use one of his 50 organizational contracts on Enqvist.

That means HE felt that Enqvist could contribute to the Montreal Canadiens organization on some level.
The world will always need ditch diggers type of contribution?

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06-27-2012, 03:43 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't put a lot of value into the opinion of anyone who can close a book on a player after watching them play 15 games. It has nothing to do with whether or not I share that opinion or not. Maybe that's what I should have said instead.
How many games does it take. 100? 1000? The guy in your avatar played 8 total games last year. Should we have passed. I guarantee you, I put on a pair of skates, and jump on the ice for practice, you will take less than 15 seconds to decide that I ain't gonna make it. Never mind 15 games.

I compared him to Craig Darby. To me that's about all he is. If sometime during the season, Bergevin thinks, Man we could sure use Engqvist right now, then, he can go get him in Russia next summer, we still own his rights.

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06-27-2012, 05:07 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
The world will always need ditch diggers type of contribution?
A million bucks for a ditch digger in Russia...where do I sign up!! Well, at least the only language issue he will have is the Russian...and it ain't political!

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06-27-2012, 05:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I think your the one misreading. Go back and read the thread, nobody is "thrilled". Almost everybody before you made your post was "indifferent" imo. There was only one person who showed more than indifference imo.



Other than this post, most people wished him luck and didn't really care. Your the one who over reacted imo in calling everyone "thrilled" that he is gone.

Mac...sadly...Pouliot is a francophone....and that is why the interest is there!

15 games yes...but less than 4 minutes per game...nobody but the superstars are noticed in that amount of time!!

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06-27-2012, 05:14 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Or...maybe...like EVERYONE else in the situation he decided he could make more money one way and decided it was best for him and his future to do that for now.

In 1999/2000 a 5 foot 11 d-man from Europe came over and played parts of a season with the Springfield Falcons. Put up 15 points in 43 games in the AHL and 5 points in 14 games in the ECHL. He also played 1 game in the IHL that season.

Then I guess it was "obvious" to him that he'd never be an NHL player so he went back to Europe.

Yes he may have been a few years younger than Enqvist at the time, but that player will pass the 500 games played mark in the NHL this year, health provided and may very well finish his career with 300+ points.

The point here? It's laughable when people like you proclaim a guy like Enqvist to never be a capable NHL'er, based on...seeing him play limited minutes in the NHL for a few games here and there? Especially considering how much he improved points wise from his first NA season to his second.

As well as people who watched Hamilton a lot saying how well he improved his 2 way play over the course of the season.

Oh...and the habs qualified him. He could have accepted that QO right then and there, and that would have used up one of the 50 spots available in the organization. So apparently Bergevin thinks highly enough of him that he was willing to use up a spot on him.

But I'm sure you know better than him right?
He was the best all-round player in Hamilton last season...hands down!!

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06-27-2012, 05:16 PM
  #73
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Steady Andreas, one post at a time!


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06-27-2012, 05:19 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Sometimes it is that obvious. There is a reason why he gave up on an NHL dream and went to play in Siberia.

I'll tell you why ... because it was obvious even to him.
LOL..Mac...I have to really laugh at guys like you....you can sit in your chair and discuss how good or bad a player is..yet...you probably aren't even competitive in your hockey pools!!

Siberia..nope...Moscow...and for a million bucks bud....tax free!! Now go ahead and say how **** someone is when there is a team out there willing to spend that type of dollars! Would they spend that on you??

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06-27-2012, 05:22 PM
  #75
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Steady Andreas, one post at a time!

Nice...but WRONG...lol..and hey..i'll be him for just a day...afterall, he played...YOU probably didn't!! lol

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