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Jets select Lukas Sutter (39th overall)

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Old
06-23-2012, 06:01 PM
  #26
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At this rate he'll be 5'9 by training camp!

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06-23-2012, 07:00 PM
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Great pick. Nothing says you want to be tougher to play against than having a Sutter in the lineup.

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06-25-2012, 10:43 PM
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Again not a bad pick but there were players with a lot higher upside still on the board. With all the picks in 2013 they have you would think Chevy could have dealt some picks to get back into the lower 2nd round and drafted him there if he was really set on adding Sutter, just makes a lot more sense to me anyway.

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06-25-2012, 10:52 PM
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Again not a bad pick but there were players with a lot higher upside still on the board. With all the picks in 2013 they have you would think Chevy could have dealt some picks to get back into the lower 2nd round and drafted him there if he was really set on adding Sutter, just makes a lot more sense to me anyway.
I tend to agree. I am a lot less enthusiastic about this pick in round 2 than I am about Trouba at #9. I hope that Chevy and his scouts don't establish a pattern of reaching for tough grinder types of players, and end up with too many 3rd and 4th line grinders in the system. A lot of these types are available in lower rounds, and through trades and free agency. Every successful organization needs to hit the occasional home run in lower rounds (like Datsyuk and Zetterberg).

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06-26-2012, 07:01 PM
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I tend to agree. I am a lot less enthusiastic about this pick in round 2 than I am about Trouba at #9. I hope that Chevy and his scouts don't establish a pattern of reaching for tough grinder types of players, and end up with too many 3rd and 4th line grinders in the system. A lot of these types are available in lower rounds, and through trades and free agency. Every successful organization needs to hit the occasional home run in lower rounds (like Datsyuk and Zetterberg).
hehe, where did we draft Toby? We might not be due again for a couple years.

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06-26-2012, 10:09 PM
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Again not a bad pick but there were players with a lot higher upside still on the board. With all the picks in 2013 they have you would think Chevy could have dealt some picks to get back into the lower 2nd round and drafted him there if he was really set on adding Sutter, just makes a lot more sense to me anyway.
IMO the organization the last two drafts outside of the first round have gone for players who embody the work ethic and characteristics of the organization, while they may not have as much upside most are decent bets to carve out roles in the NHL. Since the Jets currently have a shallow pool adding players like this will help stabilize the farm team and the Jets bottom six, so that the Jets don't haven't go out and overpay for their role players (The Redwings are exceptionally good at churning out role players through their system which allows them to allocate more cap space to their core of stars.)

Just as important since these players (add in Mark and Trouba) embody what this organization is about they set the tone for future draft picks. It is not surprising in the least that the Jets went more for character, leadership and work ethic than skill in the beginning. (Both Scheifele and Trouba have a lot of talent as well). The Jets intend to instill their culture from the very beginning. What better way to instill buy in from new prospects when the culture is reinforced by both the organization and their peers. Once the Jets have built up a strong nucleus of their type of people through the organization you can bet the organization will start to take more risks at the draft and through player acquisition. We have a number of high picks next year, I would expect that the organization starts to get a little more aggressive with its later round picks.

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06-26-2012, 11:22 PM
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06-27-2012, 02:34 AM
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IMO the organization the last two drafts outside of the first round have gone for players who embody the work ethic and characteristics of the organization, while they may not have as much upside most are decent bets to carve out roles in the NHL. Since the Jets currently have a shallow pool adding players like this will help stabilize the farm team and the Jets bottom six, so that the Jets don't haven't go out and overpay for their role players (The Redwings are exceptionally good at churning out role players through their system which allows them to allocate more cap space to their core of stars.)

Just as important since these players (add in Mark and Trouba) embody what this organization is about they set the tone for future draft picks. It is not surprising in the least that the Jets went more for character, leadership and work ethic than skill in the beginning. (Both Scheifele and Trouba have a lot of talent as well). The Jets intend to instill their culture from the very beginning. What better way to instill buy in from new prospects when the culture is reinforced by both the organization and their peers. Once the Jets have built up a strong nucleus of their type of people through the organization you can bet the organization will start to take more risks at the draft and through player acquisition. We have a number of high picks next year, I would expect that the organization starts to get a little more aggressive with its later round picks.
I hope so. Even with 1st round picks eventually you have to pick some skill. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the Scheifele and Trouba picks right now, but as Calgary has proven drafting grit and character over the long term (as in ONLY drafting grit and character) is a bad strategy (see CGY between 1998-2008). Thing is though that Scheifele and Trouba are just prospects, in order to get the "right character/attitude" it has to start from the top down, ie the NHL team. You have to start there if you are implementing this philosophy, prospects develop on their own and they will learn from the veterans. Starting by drafting prospects with that mentality is not always going to work, if the NHL team does not have that mentality. Do the Jets? I am not sure, I don't think so right now.

IMO, there are NO "sure bets" to have an NHL future. I have seen waaaay too many Lauri Tukonen/Nathan Smith/Colton Gillies(who will be out of NHL in 1/2 years, IMO) types to ever believe that a player is a sure bet to have an NHL career. Even defensive safe type players need to develop, you look for the overall package, IMO. I think the Jets have done a decent job of that though, I like the longterm goalie projects (ala Jon Quick) they have taken on, but the limited scope of their picks is a might concerning.

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06-27-2012, 09:16 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I hope so. Even with 1st round picks eventually you have to pick some skill. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the Scheifele and Trouba picks right now, but as Calgary has proven drafting grit and character over the long term (as in ONLY drafting grit and character) is a bad strategy (see CGY between 1998-2008). Thing is though that Scheifele and Trouba are just prospects, in order to get the "right character/attitude" it has to start from the top down, ie the NHL team. You have to start there if you are implementing this philosophy, prospects develop on their own and they will learn from the veterans. Starting by drafting prospects with that mentality is not always going to work, if the NHL team does not have that mentality. Do the Jets? I am not sure, I don't think so right now.

IMO, there are NO "sure bets" to have an NHL future. I have seen waaaay too many Lauri Tukonen/Nathan Smith/Colton Gillies(who will be out of NHL in 1/2 years, IMO) types to ever believe that a player is a sure bet to have an NHL career. Even defensive safe type players need to develop, you look for the overall package, IMO. I think the Jets have done a decent job of that though, I like the longterm goalie projects (ala Jon Quick) they have taken on, but the limited scope of their picks is a might concerning.
Great post Holden

a few weeks ago Chevy was the keynote speaker at the chamber of commerce lunch and he addressed exactly what you are talking about. He touched on so many topics but "the culture of the organization" seemed to be his number 1 priority and let me try to get the recap correct.

Chevy said culture isn't something on a blackboard or a nice clean statement that lives as a document in a book our on a wall. Culture is not something you can force feed to professional athletes. He feels strongly that it is something you have to be very clear on and constantly communicate the vision but it absolutely has to be backed by your own actions and the organizations actions. also you have to clearly communicate to each player and prospect in the organization what their roll and goals are to support the team goals and help build the culture.

I am in an international business club and have heard too many keynote speakers over the years to count. I am also a student of businesses and effective impactful cultures so up to this point Chevy was saying pretty much what I was use to hearing but his next statement is when I new it was about more than words. He said (paraphrase) "total buy into the culture will be a lagging indicator and takes time......you have to live it and act it and manage it and slowly you start to get some buy in.....as the the results improve the players buy in STARTS TO FOLLOW.....then as the results build more you hit the final stage where everyone starts to believe and buy in and the force multiplier creates a championship culture"

That is spoken by a person that clearly lives in the real world!!!! It is a very sober and real take on how it actually happens IMHO......so many business leaders I know believe their own press clippings and their ego gets in the way when they talk about their corporate culture. their idea of their own companies culture is not connected to THE REAL LIVING AND BREATING culture that exists in their company. They either don't aspire to have a championship culture (my way or the highway types) or they have a vision for the culture but lack the talent to make all the little decisions that can bring the culture to life. Honestly anyone can have an idea but few leaders can actually bring it to life.

I always wondered how Chevy put together so many championship teams at different levels until I heard him speak and then I got it. I firmly believe he understands the ingredients it takes in his players (skill and attitude) to build the recipe that creates the culture of a championship team.

Now fast forward to the real world when it comes to how long this will take. Chevy inherited a team with many players he didn't choose. I believe after the first year he has a good idea who fits, who doesn't, and what players fall in the middle and by that I mean if they get with the program they could be great pieces of the puzzle but full buy in might be a lagging indicator.

One example of this might be a case of all your players showing up fit for camp and bringing the best versions of themselves to show their commitment to the team goals. If you have one of your leaders show up out of shape it flys in the face of your team goals and then it's hard to get buy in from everyone because they sense your words don't translate to actions or there are special rules for special players? as an organization you are faced with options, you can let it slide because you need the players talent, you can trade them (not that easy in the new NHL), or you can help them hit their goal by communication, clear expectations, and support to the goal. The first option causes cancer and it's impossible to acheive the culture you strive for when it exists, the second option is good if you can get value back, and the third option is gold. The reason coaching and managing them up is the best option is it provides Exibit A to fellow teammates that you mean what you say and you can impact change. I believe it starts to impact team buy in, your culture gets a pulse, and the virtuous cycle begins to move the cultural needle in the right direction and the virus begins to slowly spread.

Chevy said the culture starts right after the draft as they begin laying out the vision for the kids right off the bat and it's a huge part of their draft and development structure.

This is going to take time but the vision is crystal clear.


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06-27-2012, 09:34 AM
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Chevy's rhetoric is off the charts. Sounds like Chipman and Thomson knew what they were getting when they got him.

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06-27-2012, 09:43 AM
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Chevy's rhetoric is off the charts. Sounds like Chipman and Thomson knew what they were getting when they got him.
He is EXACTLY TNSE's type of guy. Super tight lipped about anything of organizational substance, low-key, hard-work type.

That said, Chevy has been part of winning organizations everywhere he's gone. Yes, he was only in his first year as assistant GM of the Cup-winning Blackhawks team, but winning organizations tend to attract winners themselves. If there's anyone I have to respect their statements about building a winning culture, he'd be one of them.

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06-27-2012, 11:50 AM
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Sutter is really underrated by alot of people. He has alot of offensive upside and I see him as a very solid number 2 center in the NHL some day in the Mike Richards role.

This is a guy who had 58 points as a 17 year old in the WHL this season more points then Brandon Sutter got at the same age. If he was slighty bigger he would have been a first rounder easily.

He will put up some big numbers next year and have people wondering how he fell to the Jets in the 2nd round. Watch when all the people who never watch these guys play see him at the Memorial cup next year will be touting him as a steal.

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06-27-2012, 01:18 PM
  #38
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Sutter is really underrated by alot of people. He has alot of offensive upside and I see him as a very solid number 2 center in the NHL some day in the Mike Richards role.

This is a guy who had 58 points as a 17 year old in the WHL this season more points then Brandon Sutter got at the same age. If he was slighty bigger he would have been a first rounder easily.

He will put up some big numbers next year and have people wondering how he fell to the Jets in the 2nd round. Watch when all the people who never watch these guys play see him at the Memorial cup next year will be touting him as a steal.

Mike Richards is one of my very favorite players in the entire NHL, if our very own Lukas Sutter is a future mold of Mike Richards then I would be ecstatic.

Joe, as a WHL follower yourself, when do you envision Lukas Sutter making the jump? Also, do you think Lukas can make the Canadian World Junior team?

It would be nice if Sutter could improve even more offensively here in his 3rd full WHL season, be a monster for Canada at the World Juniors, and since he is an October Birthday he will be 19 this October and 20 next October, meaning a year from now he could make the jump to the AHL. Although, a 4th year in the WHL may still be a good route. Mike Richards also spent 4 years in the OHL, an additional 2 years after he was drafted. May be a good path for Lukas Sutter as well.

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06-27-2012, 01:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Sutter is really underrated by alot of people. He has alot of offensive upside and I see him as a very solid number 2 center in the NHL some day in the Mike Richards role.

This is a guy who had 58 points as a 17 year old in the WHL this season more points then Brandon Sutter got at the same age. If he was slighty bigger he would have been a first rounder easily.

He will put up some big numbers next year and have people wondering how he fell to the Jets in the 2nd round. Watch when all the people who never watch these guys play see him at the Memorial cup next year will be touting him as a steal.
golly i hope your right. I liked the pick but if he really does have/hits that upside i'd be ecstatic. Big Mike Richards fan.

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06-27-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Mike Richards is one of my very favorite players in the entire NHL, if our very own Lukas Sutter is a future mold of Mike Richards then I would be ecstatic.

Joe, as a WHL follower yourself, when do you envision Lukas Sutter making the jump? Also, do you think Lukas can make the Canadian World Junior team?

It would be nice if Sutter could improve even more offensively here in his 3rd full WHL season, be a monster for Canada at the World Juniors, and since he is an October Birthday he will be 19 this October and 20 next October, meaning a year from now he could make the jump to the AHL.
Interesting Guerzy they have Sutter listed at 6'0" 215 pounds in our prospects roster. I mentionted this on another thread but in an interview I saw him in (wearing a form fitting sleeveless work out shirt) he was built like a brick **** house. 215 seems like a stretch but he was really filled out and thicker than the other Sutter's I have seen.


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06-27-2012, 01:34 PM
  #41
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Interesting Guerzy they have Sutter listed at 6'0" 215 pounds in our prospects roster. I mentionted this on another thread but in an interview I saw him in (wearing a form fitting sleeveless work out shirt) he was built like a brick **** house. 215 seems like a stretch but he was really filled out and thicker than the other Sutter's I have seen.
I was just looking at his weight myself, what a huge bonus to have that structure and build. You're correct in many of the other young Sutters are quite slim.

Some more comparables between a young Mike Richards and Lukas Sutter are they are/were both looked at as not the greatest skaters and both were a pretty open book in terms of how good they could be offensively. I remember the days when many figured Mike Richards would be a great 3rd line center but it was unclear if he would be offensively good enough to be a legitimate offensive top 6 forward.

Mike Richards is a very hefty comparison, but it will be exciting to see how Lukas Sutter develops in the next couple to few years.

Another kid that really excited me and who took a huge step forward offensively this past season before getting injured is Adam Lowry. Huge frame standing somewhere around 6'5".

I really like what we have here in Lukas Sutter and Adam Lowry. If these kids hit their potential ceilings, look out. In 2 drafts we've really added some nice looking prospects in Scheifele, Trouba, Sutter and Lowry.


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06-27-2012, 01:48 PM
  #42
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I was just looking at his weight myself, what a huge bonus to have that structure and build. You're correct in many of the other young Sutters are quite slim.

Some more comparables between a young Mike Richards and Lukas Sutter are they are/were both looked at as not the greatest skaters and both were a pretty open book in terms of how good they could be offensively. I remember the days when many figured Mike Richards would be a great 3rd line center but it was unclear if he would be offensively good enough to be a legitimate offensive top 6 forward.

Mike Richards is a very hefty comparison, but it will be exciting to see how Lukas Sutter develops in the next couple to few years.

Another kid that really excited me and who took a huge step forward offensively this past season before getting injured is Adam Lowry. Huge frame standing somewhere around 6'5".

I really like what we have here in Lukas Sutter and Adam Lowry. If these kids hit their potential ceilings, look out. In 2 drafts we've really added some nice looking prospects in Scheifele, Trouba, Sutter and Lowry.
Just looking at Lukas vs Brandon Sutter it seems we got the thicker meaner kid. In Juniors Brandon peaked at 54 penalty minutes whereas Lukas has had 179 PIM and 165 PIM in his first two seasons. Interesting in their draft years they did have comparable scoring stats. Brandon's path to the NHL was one more year of juniors, then 22 games in the AHL and 50 with Carolina in his sophomore year after his draft.

Good point on Lowry I loved him as a third round pick last year and he was having a good year in Swift current until he lost the season due to injury. he seems to fit the high character, big body, father was a pro, captain of his team, late bloomer mold. He has some skills as well and was averaging a PPG this year until he was hurt.

Edit: it appears Mile Richards might have had more elite level scoring stays in his draft year 87 points in 67 games but we can dream big for sure.

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06-27-2012, 01:49 PM
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I was just looking at his weight myself, what a huge bonus to have that structure and build. You're correct in many of the other young Sutters are quite slim.

Some more comparables between a young Mike Richards and Lukas Sutter are they are/were both looked at as not the greatest skaters and both were a pretty open book in terms of how good they could be offensively. I remember the days when many figured Mike Richards would be a great 3rd line center but it was unclear if he would be offensively good enough to be a legitimate offensive top 6 forward.

Mike Richards is a very hefty comparison, but it will be exciting to see how Lukas Sutter develops in the next couple to few years.

Another kid that really excited me and who took a huge step forward offensively this past season before getting injured is Adam Lowry. Huge frame standing somewhere around 6'5".

I really like what we have here in Lukas Sutter and Adam Lowry. If these kids hit their potential ceilings, look out. In 2 drafts we've really added some nice looking prospects in Scheifele, Trouba, Sutter and Lowry.
Will you like it just the same if Lowry and Sutter end up topping out as 3rd line players?

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06-27-2012, 02:13 PM
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Will you like it just the same if Lowry and Sutter end up topping out as 3rd line players?
personally, I will. I think batting even is one top 6/top4 player(essentially your first round pick) every year and 1 4th-3rd liner(from anywhere else).

most teams don't succesfully draft more then 2 players in a year that have honest NHL careers, and that's eschewing their roles.

if they both top out at as 3rd liners, were doing about as good as can be hoped for. if they, or any other body drafted after the first(telegin/kosmachuk/etc), ends up in a top 6 role, that's essentially a win.

I also do put some stock in a previous posters reasoning of building a certain character in the prospect pool.

Same question needs to be asked if we'd drafted a more "skilled" player with higher risk, would we still like the pick if he never made it at all?

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06-27-2012, 02:14 PM
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Will you like it just the same if Lowry and Sutter end up topping out as 3rd line players?
If they can bring character, desire, dedication and fulfil the role, I'll be very happy. Whether they blossom as offensive top 6 guys or develop into the mold of character bottom 6 forwards, I think you can win with players like this. Bloodlines play a role in this too, it makes it comforting, in my opinion. I like bloodlines and although they don't mean squat if the kid can't play, I think these kids can indeed play.

A huge bloodline bust is Jared Staal. I am a huge Staal family fan but I've always said Jared wouldn't make it, I even said a couple years ago I had doubts he would ever produce in the AHL. I watched him every now and again during his OHL days when he came to town and never once did I see anything in his game. I like bloodlines but I'm not blinded by them.

Back on topic, I like these kids and think they can play and be an integral part of the Winnipeg Jets future whether it be excelling as top 6 forwards or bottom 6 forwards.

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06-27-2012, 02:31 PM
  #46
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Mike Richards is one of my very favorite players in the entire NHL, if our very own Lukas Sutter is a future mold of Mike Richards then I would be ecstatic.

Joe, as a WHL follower yourself, when do you envision Lukas Sutter making the jump? Also, do you think Lukas can make the Canadian World Junior team?

It would be nice if Sutter could improve even more offensively here in his 3rd full WHL season, be a monster for Canada at the World Juniors, and since he is an October Birthday he will be 19 this October and 20 next October, meaning a year from now he could make the jump to the AHL. Although, a 4th year in the WHL may still be a good route. Mike Richards also spent 4 years in the OHL, an additional 2 years after he was drafted. May be a good path for Lukas Sutter as well.
He is in the mix for Team Canada for sure this upcoming World Junior. He fits the mold of what they like for one of the bottom 6 center spots. Guy who can hit,take draws,play against the other teams top guys and chip in with some scoring. I imagine his competition will be a guys like Travis Ewanyk and Scott Laughton who similar styled players.

He is a thick bodied player who plays hard every single shift. I don't think of him as an agitator but more of a guy who plays everyone very hard every single shift. It is why he tends to fight because having a guy be that relentless is "agitating".

I actually thought he might creep into the first round so it isn't surprising to see him go early.

I am also not really sure who is more offensive or skilled at this point in the draft. I look down the list and guys seem really interchangeable between the 2nd and 4th rounds IMO. For me at least you rarely,rarely get a skilled guy after the 1st round who pans out and I am talking about your 5'8-5'10 skill guys. You can look at the Kings or Devils and their top 6 is filled with 1st rounders that they either drafted or traded for. The guys that fill out that roster tend to be guys that are drafted later with some size

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06-27-2012, 03:05 PM
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Interesting Guerzy they have Sutter listed at 6'0" 215 pounds in our prospects roster. I mentionted this on another thread but in an interview I saw him in (wearing a form fitting sleeveless work out shirt) he was built like a brick **** house. 215 seems like a stretch but he was really filled out and thicker than the other Sutter's I have seen.
I saw one video of him from the Combine and my first thought was "Holy s--- did we just draft a teenager or a horse?" One thing's for sure, by the time the kid makes the NHL he won't be getting pushed around by anything, including a Zamboni.


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06-27-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerial View Post
I saw one video of him from the Combine and my first thought was "Holy s--- did we just draft a teenager or a horse?" One thing's for sure, by the time the kid makes the NHL he won't be getting pushed around by anything, including a Zamboni.
He made his jersey look like Spandex through the shoulders.

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06-27-2012, 04:58 PM
  #49
mondo3
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One of our current problems is that our 3rd line players are more like 4th line players, so if one or two of these guys is a solid 3rd line player, that's not too bad. Of course I'm hoping that someone exceeds this and becomes a 2nd line player

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