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The end of Mathieu Darche (turns down 2-way deal from Habs)

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Old
06-27-2012, 02:31 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I see no problem with a successful team having Darche as a #13/#14 forward.
Where is Darche on Los Angles ,Detroit? .....Let me see, Jeff Carter , Richards ,Darche line?

Pavel Datsyuk on a line with Darche?


Face the cold hard truth , Darche is a glaring example of the past management and coaching FAILURE.
You have a broken power play, instead of trying to fix it with actually NHL power play caliber player ,you instead use a career AHLer and try to make it work! ....You are lacking a top 6 forward, so you play a career AHLer with your top 6 .for YEARS????
That is EXPANSION TEAM,that should not be MONTREAL Canadiens hockey .

Working hard and being NICE GUY, should not put you on first line, or power play !


Last edited by Habaneros: 06-27-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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06-27-2012, 02:37 PM
  #52
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I didn't mind Darche as a 13th forward and still don't if he somehow manages to re-sign and is there strictly for depth, but he doesn't belong in a competitive lineup.

My only beef was when Martin used him in the top 6 as "punishment" for other guys, and he isn't a grinder either, but at least he could fill that role somewhat modestly in case someone goes down.

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06-27-2012, 02:38 PM
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If we can ice a fourth line of White - Konopka - Kostopoulos as opposed to Darche - Engqvist - Weber we'd be in serious business.

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06-27-2012, 02:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Man this is a confusing thread.

Darche is a fantastic 13th forward in the NHL. Probably works like hell in practice, and doesn't look out of place at all when put in the line up.

It's funny how many people want Staubitz brought back but express such hatred for Darche. Does Staubitz play on the penalty kill? No. He goes out there for 7 minutes a night and maybe gets in a fight, or maybe doesn't.

Darche on the other hand can kill penalties, is a pretty capable player who doesn't make the players around him essentially be playing 4 on 5 and he seems like a great teammate.

I hope Darche works something out with the organization, but if not I have absolutely no doubt he can find a spot in the NHL.

Pretty pathetic, the people celebrating this guy (likely) not being back next year. Some people need to seriously look at themselves in the mirror and wonder at what point being a "fan" of the team turned into them celebrating because a minimum salary guy who worked his ass off to get to the NHL and actually turned into a decent 4th liner, is not going to be back with the team.
agree with most of what you're saying...

People may not have liked how the previous coaches/management used Darche, but the guy was nothing but a dedicated and classy athlete for the organization and for the team. If he is done, he deserves a thank you not a bunch of sarcastic snide remarks.

That said, as a 13th fwd, if we elect to keep a veteran player for that role, I'd prefer Staubitz. I hate fighting and the need to have guys who can play that role, but it is a part of the regular season game in the NHL, and Staubitz presence is more valuable to the team, imo, than Darche if only from the emotional impact on the other players (including the physical guys), who know they have someone on the roster who can step in and stick up for them.

also, with Leblanc, White, Palushaj, Geoffrion and potentially another young guy impressing in camp (Gallagher? Nattinen? Gally? Dumont? Bournival?), if Therrien elects not to carry a pugilist like Staubitz in the 13th player role, I don't know that keeping Darche ahead of one of those guys make sense.

I'll be fine if Darche does come back in that role, but understand if the team decides to move on... either way, the guy deserves nothing but respect from our fan base. You'd think by now with all the players/managers who have actually been a negative impact on the organization, a guy like Darche who was nothing but a stand up person/athlete would get some appreciation.

Thanks Mathieu, and when you're playing days are officially done, I hope the organization gives you an opportunity to pursue a front office role with us if that's in the cards for you.

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06-27-2012, 02:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Where is Darche on Los Angles ,Detroit? .....

Face the cold hard truth , Darche is a glaring example of the past management and coaching FAILURE.
You have a broken power play, instead of trying to fix it with actually NHL power play caliber player ,you instead use a career AHLer and try to make it work! ....That is EXPANSION TEAM,that should not be MONTREAL Canadiens hockey .

Working hard and being NICE GUY, should not put you on first line, or power play !
All of which has nothing to do with his hockey ability and everything to do with management and coaching.

Last season Darche was a fairly effective 4th-line player. Bringing him back as the 13th forward isn't a bad idea.

Looking at the Los Angeles, Vancouvers, Detroits, New Jerseys of the world they have an awful lot of depth players who made under a million. That doesn't speak as much to Darche as it does to Moen's future (with everyone here including me seeming to slot him in on the 4th line) but it's something to consider.

As one of the extra forwards Darche comes cheap, he has the bonus of being a local guy actually willing to play in Montreal, and he played hockey at an NHL level next year. He's getting to the age where he might drop off suddenly though. He shouldn't be in the Habs' starting lineup when everyone's healthy but there's probably a spot on the team for him.

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06-27-2012, 02:43 PM
  #56
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How so ? If you shop Darche to 29 NHL teams who takes him?Is there not any better player in NHL to help Montreal?
It was a nice STORY that should have lasted a few weeks......some how it lasted way too long .

Darche is a GREAT guy , first class, but never in anyone life time should he been playing top lines or on power play for Montreal Canadiens EVER.

A classic example of a player been misused.
So people are justified to hate on him because the rest of hte team underperformed and at timies he played more than he should have?

Sound logic there...

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06-27-2012, 02:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Where is Darche on Los Angles ,Detroit? .....Let me see, Jeff Carter , Richards ,Darche line?

Pavel Datsyuk on a line with Darche?


Face the cold hard truth , Darche is a glaring example of the past management and coaching FAILURE.
You have a broken power play, instead of trying to fix it with actually NHL power play caliber player ,you instead use a career AHLer and try to make it work! ....You are lacking a top 6 forward, so you play a career AHLer with your top 6 .for YEARS????
That is EXPANSION TEAM,that should not be MONTREAL Canadiens hockey .

Working hard and being NICE GUY, should not put you on first line, or power play !
Not sure what you're smoking but you should pass it around...

What does Darche have to do with Datsyuk Richards or Carter?

The only time Darche played any top 6 or PP was with injuries, that happend on every NHL team. talbot sent awhile on the Pens top line, does that make them a Mickey Mouse team because he should be on the 4th line?

LA had guys like Fraser and Lewis on their 4th line playing a similar role.

New Jersey had Bernier Carter and Gionta

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06-27-2012, 02:44 PM
  #58
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About time.

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06-27-2012, 02:45 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Where is Darche on Los Angles ,Detroit? .....Let me see, Jeff Carter , Richards ,Darche line?

Pavel Datsyuk on a line with Darche?


Face the cold hard truth , Darche is a glaring example of the past management and coaching FAILURE.
You have a broken power play, instead of trying to fix it with actually NHL power play caliber player ,you instead use a career AHLer and try to make it work! ....You are lacking a top 6 forward, so you play a career AHLer with your top 6 .for YEARS????
That is EXPANSION TEAM,that should not be MONTREAL Canadiens hockey .

Working hard and being NICE GUY, should not put you on first line, or power play !
And what does it have to do with Darche? He was being asked to play on the powerplay, and he did. Him being mismanaged has nothing to do with the fact that a lot of teams could use Darche on the third or fourth line.

You need players like Darche, because you don't always play your rookies on the third or fourth line. A lot of posters are glad he's out, but he was actually pretty cheap for what he brought.

I wouldn't mind the team giving him a 1 or 2 years cheap contract for insurance, and because you need veterans playing on your lower lines.

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06-27-2012, 02:46 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I see no problem with a successful team having Darche as a #13/#14 forward.
It's a hate parade Hawkeye. Either get on at the start or sit it out cause if you try to keep up you'll just get a headache trying to understand all of the "logic".

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06-27-2012, 02:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Where is Darche on Los Angles ,Detroit? .....Let me see, Jeff Carter , Richards ,Darche line?

Pavel Datsyuk on a line with Darche?


Face the cold hard truth , Darche is a glaring example of the past management and coaching FAILURE.
You have a broken power play, instead of trying to fix it with actually NHL power play caliber player ,you instead use a career AHLer and try to make it work! ....You are lacking a top 6 forward, so you play a career AHLer with your top 6 .for YEARS????
That is EXPANSION TEAM,that should not be MONTREAL Canadiens hockey .

Working hard and being NICE GUY, should not put you on first line, or power play !
Let me get this straight : You hate on Darche because the Habs were short on players and our coach was an idiot. Very fair.

By that logic we shouldn't acquire 4th liners that is good enough to play on the 2nd or 3rd line in case of injury.

Darche was useful two years ago&a great depth player and he was still useful last season even if he slowed down. Not often do you see minimum salary AHL pick up guys end up being given limited offensive roles in the NHL. He exceeded any expectations put on him by a very wide margin and then some, why he can't get the respect he deserves here is mindboggling.

The only way I'd re-sign him is on a two-way contract with the specific intent of having him as a veteran in Hamilton. He'd be perfect there and could be called up if theres a crisis. He shouldn't be a regular however, guys like Geoffrion or Palushaj are ahead (Leblanc too, but he needs AHL time imho).

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06-27-2012, 02:52 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Let me get this straight : You hate on Darche because the Habs were short on players and our coach was an idiot. Very fair.

By that logic we shouldn't acquire 4th liners that is good enough to play on the 2nd or 3rd line in case of injury.

Darche was useful two years ago and a great depth player. Not often do you see minimum salary AHL pick up guys end up being given limited offensive roles in the NHL. He exceeded any expectations put on him by a very wide margin and then some, why he can't get the respect he deserves here is mindboggling.

The only way I'd re-sign him is on a two-way contract with the specific intent of having him as a veteran in Hamilton. He'd be perfect there and could be called up if theres a crisis. He shouldn't be a regular however, guys like Geoffrion or Palushaj are ahead (Leblanc too, but he needs AHL time imho).

I don't hate Darche, i said he was a great guy ,i SAID if he signed back to Hamilton and used for EXTREME call up if injury hit the 4TH LINE ONLY , i was OK with that.Bottom line is he shouldn't be playing in Montreal ,or FULL TIME. If he a great NHL 13/14 forward like so many want to believe, he will have no problem catching on with another NHL team.


We let better 4 liners go ,Mathieu Dandenault ,Steve Begin, TKO etc...

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06-27-2012, 02:53 PM
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agree with most of what you're saying...

People may not have liked how the previous coaches/management used Darche, but the guy was nothing but a dedicated and classy athlete for the organization and for the team. If he is done, he deserves a thank you not a bunch of sarcastic snide remarks.

That said, as a 13th fwd, if we elect to keep a veteran player for that role, I'd prefer Staubitz. I hate fighting and the need to have guys who can play that role, but it is a part of the regular season game in the NHL, and Staubitz presence is more valuable to the team, imo, than Darche if only from the emotional impact on the other players (including the physical guys), who know they have someone on the roster who can step in and stick up for them.

also, with Leblanc, White, Palushaj, Geoffrion and potentially another young guy impressing in camp (Gallagher? Nattinen? Gally? Dumont? Bournival?), if Therrien elects not to carry a pugilist like Staubitz in the 13th player role, I don't know that keeping Darche ahead of one of those guys make sense.

I'll be fine if Darche does come back in that role, but understand if the team decides to move on... either way, the guy deserves nothing but respect from our fan base. You'd think by now with all the players/managers who have actually been a negative impact on the organization, a guy like Darche who was nothing but a stand up person/athlete would get some appreciation.

Thanks Mathieu, and when you're playing days are officially done, I hope the organization gives you an opportunity to pursue a front office role with us if that's in the cards for you.
It's the most bizarre logic I've ever seen. Because injuries and poor play caused the coaches at time to give him more minutes than he should have been getting he's an awful bottom line forward/13th forward and people are celebrating him leaving.

Staubitz is a fine guy to have, I frankly don't see the need for him at all. We've got some tough guys in the line up, and frankly I'd rather Montreal focused on letting other teams "goon" it up when they want, and let them take the penalties and get the power plays.

If a guy like Staubitz is in the line up, and 2 forwards go down can he provide the team with 13, 14 minutes in a pinch? No.

Now granted Darche isn't going to be anything special there either, but he won't look completely out of place either.

I look at teams like Vancouver, and Detroit...they don't have an enforcer in their line up ever. Sure Vancouver has added some bigger tougher guys, but so have the Habs.

Bourque isn't an enforcer, but with the right coaching and proper mindset he can be a guy who can go in there and let guys know that you won't be taking liberties with Pricey, or PK.

Same with White. And Moen.

I would way rather have a guy like Darche who is a damn good PK'er than a guy like Staubitz who might come in handy a few times a year but frankly will fare just as well as a guy like White or Moen, if the "need" ever comes to fight Lucic.

Again though, if the Habs elect not to bring back Darche I'm fine with it. I'm not gonna sit here and say they MUST sign him, and Bergevin is an idiot if he doesn't.

But to celebrate, or anything like that...it's just pathetic. People like that should seriously start taking sports a little less seriously. It's one thing to hate on a guy like Gomez, because of the way his presence on the team due to salary cap constraints has a negative effect on the team. Even in his case though, he was offered a contract and he signed it. But a guy who will make close to league minimum and who can give the team PK minutes...to celebrate him being gone? What the hell is the point.

Somewhere along the way in this 24/7 news media circus we live in I think a lot of fans have lost their way.

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06-27-2012, 02:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Where is Darche on Los Angles ,Detroit? .....Let me see, Jeff Carter , Richards ,Darche line?

Pavel Datsyuk on a line with Darche?


Face the cold hard truth , Darche is a glaring example of the past management and coaching FAILURE.
You have a broken power play, instead of trying to fix it with actually NHL power play caliber player ,you instead use a career AHLer and try to make it work! ....You are lacking a top 6 forward, so you play a career AHLer with your top 6 .for YEARS????
That is EXPANSION TEAM,that should not be MONTREAL Canadiens hockey .

Working hard and being NICE GUY, should not put you on first line, or power play !
Everyone knows that Darche was the one deciding when to play and on which line...
And he was a real media sucker. Everyone wanted to interview him (could it be because he was one of the only two Francophones on the team ?...)




Blame the coaches. Not the guy !

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06-27-2012, 02:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
It's the most bizarre logic I've ever seen. Because injuries and poor play caused the coaches at time to give him more minutes than he should have been getting he's an awful bottom line forward/13th forward and people are celebrating him leaving.

Staubitz is a fine guy to have, I frankly don't see the need for him at all. We've got some tough guys in the line up, and frankly I'd rather Montreal focused on letting other teams "goon" it up when they want, and let them take the penalties and get the power plays.

If a guy like Staubitz is in the line up, and 2 forwards go down can he provide the team with 13, 14 minutes in a pinch? No.

Now granted Darche isn't going to be anything special there either, but he won't look completely out of place either.

I look at teams like Vancouver, and Detroit...they don't have an enforcer in their line up ever. Sure Vancouver has added some bigger tougher guys, but so have the Habs.

Bourque isn't an enforcer, but with the right coaching and proper mindset he can be a guy who can go in there and let guys know that you won't be taking liberties with Pricey, or PK.

Same with White. And Moen.

I would way rather have a guy like Darche who is a damn good PK'er than a guy like Staubitz who might come in handy a few times a year but frankly will fare just as well as a guy like White or Moen, if the "need" ever comes to fight Lucic.

Again though, if the Habs elect not to bring back Darche I'm fine with it. I'm not gonna sit here and say they MUST sign him, and Bergevin is an idiot if he doesn't.

But to celebrate, or anything like that...it's just pathetic. People like that should seriously start taking sports a little less seriously. It's one thing to hate on a guy like Gomez, because of the way his presence on the team due to salary cap constraints has a negative effect on the team. Even in his case though, he was offered a contract and he signed it. But a guy who will make close to league minimum and who can give the team PK minutes...to celebrate him being gone? What the hell is the point.

Somewhere along the way in this 24/7 news media circus we live in I think a lot of fans have lost their way.

great, great post !

Thank you !

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06-27-2012, 03:01 PM
  #66
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Everyone knows that Darche was the one deciding when to play and on which line...
And he was a real media sucker. Everyone wanted to interview him (possibly because he was one of the two Francophones on the team...)




Blame the coaches. Not the guy !
Well that's the problem now, he was grossly misused and people remember it .

A LOT like when they(misused) we're playing Francis Bouillon as a top 2-3 dman!

The guy was a great mid pack(5 6 7) back end dman , but Habs played him as a top 2-3 for a long while ,and he had to take the criticism due to that .

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06-27-2012, 03:03 PM
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I don't think anyone really hates Darche, he's a nice guy. More that hockey fans prefer upgrades & there are options that are better.

It's part of the business.

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06-27-2012, 03:04 PM
  #68
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Seemed like a great player in the lockerroom. Looked like he was, along with Desharnais, the only player pissed at losing last season. Serviceable player that could score from time to time, and a nice mentor for younger players.

He's probably having a nice future in the media or in the NHL, if the rumor is true.
Hmm? Not sure if serious.

Oh and if he does leave, he should just fly to Tampa right now. No point waiting until July 1st.

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06-27-2012, 03:05 PM
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It's the most bizarre logic I've ever seen. Because injuries and poor play caused the coaches at time to give him more minutes than he should have been getting he's an awful bottom line forward/13th forward and people are celebrating him leaving.

Staubitz is a fine guy to have, I frankly don't see the need for him at all. We've got some tough guys in the line up, and frankly I'd rather Montreal focused on letting other teams "goon" it up when they want, and let them take the penalties and get the power plays.

If a guy like Staubitz is in the line up, and 2 forwards go down can he provide the team with 13, 14 minutes in a pinch? No.

Now granted Darche isn't going to be anything special there either, but he won't look completely out of place either.

I look at teams like Vancouver, and Detroit...they don't have an enforcer in their line up ever. Sure Vancouver has added some bigger tougher guys, but so have the Habs.

Bourque isn't an enforcer, but with the right coaching and proper mindset he can be a guy who can go in there and let guys know that you won't be taking liberties with Pricey, or PK.

Same with White. And Moen.

I would way rather have a guy like Darche who is a damn good PK'er than a guy like Staubitz who might come in handy a few times a year but frankly will fare just as well as a guy like White or Moen, if the "need" ever comes to fight Lucic.

Again though, if the Habs elect not to bring back Darche I'm fine with it. I'm not gonna sit here and say they MUST sign him, and Bergevin is an idiot if he doesn't.

But to celebrate, or anything like that...it's just pathetic. People like that should seriously start taking sports a little less seriously. It's one thing to hate on a guy like Gomez, because of the way his presence on the team due to salary cap constraints has a negative effect on the team. Even in his case though, he was offered a contract and he signed it. But a guy who will make close to league minimum and who can give the team PK minutes...to celebrate him being gone? What the hell is the point.

Somewhere along the way in this 24/7 news media circus we live in I think a lot of fans have lost their way.
Thank you for so eloquently writing what (I hope) most of us feel.

Darche was always a class act who did everything asked of him. He was far more productive than White or Staubitz, to the point where he was good enough to be used on the PP, but not good enough to replace the injured players. Tough position. But that's not his fault nor his decision. Blaming him is like blaming the plug for the hole.

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06-27-2012, 03:05 PM
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I don't think anyone really hates Darche, he's a nice guy. More that hockey fans prefer upgrades & there are options that are better.

It's part of the business.
Of course people don't "hate" him.

How can you hate someone you've never met and know nothing about?

But people certainly have misplaced hatred towards him, and this is seen in them celebrating his no longer having a role with the team.

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06-27-2012, 03:11 PM
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Thank you for so eloquently writing what (I hope) most of us feel.

Darche was always a class act who did everything asked of him. He was far more productive than White or Staubitz, to the point where he was good enough to be used on the PP, but not good enough to replace the injured players. Tough position. But that's not his fault nor his decision. Blaming him is like blaming the plug for the hole.
NO no NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It was the GM who was the biggest fool to let that continue!

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06-27-2012, 03:12 PM
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If the Habs don't re-sign him for a NHL job, maybe they can keep him in Hamilton as player/assistant-coach. I think this guy has lots to teach to our youngsters.

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06-27-2012, 03:14 PM
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What a great day! Habs getting rid of the deadwood a couple at a time, freeing up roster space.

Goodbye Martin era! Good decision to cut Darche, he adds nothing.

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06-27-2012, 03:14 PM
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If the Habs don't re-sign him for a NHL job, maybe they can keep him in Hamilton as player/assistant-coach. I think this guy has lots to teach to our youngsters.
How about we contact the KHL and try to get Darche a huge 2-3 million for a 1 year deal? Best i think we can do as a fan base .

Darche wants to play Hamilton ,fine for me .

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06-27-2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Where is Darche on Los Angles ,Detroit? .....Let me see, Jeff Carter , Richards ,Darche line?

Pavel Datsyuk on a line with Darche?


Face the cold hard truth , Darche is a glaring example of the past management and coaching FAILURE.
You have a broken power play, instead of trying to fix it with actually NHL power play caliber player ,you instead use a career AHLer and try to make it work! ....You are lacking a top 6 forward, so you play a career AHLer with your top 6 .for YEARS????
That is EXPANSION TEAM,that should not be MONTREAL Canadiens hockey .

Working hard and being NICE GUY, should not put you on first line, or power play !
Why did you quote me and go off on a rant about something my post had nothing to do with?

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