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The Offseason Thread Part XI: Stempniak and Ponikarovsky, LOL Offseason Edition

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Old
06-27-2012, 03:47 PM
  #51
hpNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
I'm not arguing on the dirty part. He's a very dirty player. But whiner, not so much. He isn't dirty in the sense of sticking out a knee or kicking a guy. He's old school Messier Howe dirty. Thats an element that is missing from this team. Messier was one of the dirtiest players in the league. Do you not like Messier?
There's a difference between being dirty and being so competitive that you show your emotions on the surface

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06-27-2012, 03:48 PM
  #52
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Doan would fit in perfectly. Top 6 winger, capable scorer, leadership, tough, physical, and is still looking for a cup. I can't imagine he commands a long-term deal or an unreasonable term either. I hope he's the #1 target on July 1. Parise would be nice, but be prepared to pay for it. Nash, Ryan, etc. also cost roster players.

Jagr and Whitney would also be welcomed, but both are older and can't be counted on to do as much. Doan is the total package. Sign him, Slats!

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06-27-2012, 03:49 PM
  #53
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There's a difference between being dirty and being so competitive that you show your emotions on the surface
Pretty much this. That's exactly the type of player Doan is.

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Old
06-27-2012, 03:49 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Dennis Wideman is not someone of worth, IMO. And I think this was going on before Jay Feaster, that team making bad management decisions. They should be rebuilding and restocing their destitute prospect pool, not signing role players to massive contracts.
I'm not a fan of Wideman, to say the least. But he does have value for what he brings to the table during THIS free agent market. Not a whole lot of options for teams who need bodies.

The youth still need some older guys around them who at least have an idea of what they're doing

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06-27-2012, 03:54 PM
  #55
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I'm not a fan of Wideman, to say the least. But he does have value for what he brings to the table during THIS free agent market. Not a whole lot of options for teams who need bodies.

The youth still need some older guys around them who at least have an idea of what they're doing
For $3 mill, Wideman is fine. They badly overpaid for him. They're going to keep trying to make the playoffs, and they're going to keep falling just short. That team is headed nowhere. They should be blowing it up. They should've blown it up years ago.

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06-27-2012, 03:59 PM
  #56
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For $3 mill, Wideman is fine. They badly overpaid for him. They're going to keep trying to make the playoffs, and they're going to keep falling just short. That team is headed nowhere. They should be blowing it up. They should've blown it up years ago.
They got caught up trying to build more Cup returns around Iggy and Kipper. Theyve done a horrible job at trying to fit in so many pieces over the years.

And of course their drafting and asset management has been pretty weak.

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06-27-2012, 04:01 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
They got caught up trying to build more Cup returns around Iggy and Kipper. Theyve done a horrible job at trying to fit in so many pieces over the years.

And of course their drafting and asset management has been pretty weak.
They remind me of us in the late 90's. early 2000's...except there was no cap back then.

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Hence the term "upside."



So we should have paid the absurdly high asking prices on pylons like Zanon and Kubina? How about 3 more years of Tom Gilbert at $4m a pop? Maybe I was watching the wrong deadline, but there wasn't exactly an abundance of depth d-men available.



You'll move Dubinsky? Way to go out on a limb. I never said I wouldn't move Dubinsky, and I've already said before that I'd be willing to move Del Zotto in the right deal, just not as some throw-in in a package deal for a guy like Nash. I also specifically mentioned moving Stepan as a poor decision. Yet you've said you wouldn't let Stepan get in the way of acquiring Bobby Ryan.

I also said I would explore the trade market later in the summer or after camp to see if more options opened up. Granted, it's probably easier to argue against points I never made.



Ah yes, because we all know that being in agreement with our management always plays out so well.

Quote:

Hence the term "upside."
Hence your @ss. It’s BS! the guy hasn’t played a full season in 3 yrs and he’s
hitting record #s. only in your world.



Quote:

So we should have paid the absurdly high asking prices on pylons like Zanon and Kubina? How about 3 more years of Tom Gilbert at $4m a pop? Maybe I was watching the wrong deadline, but there wasn't exactly an abundance of depth d-men available.
Not just the deadline, but the month of February leading up to the deadline. How about Downie or even Gill?
Dom Moore was had for 2nd rounder. Johnny Oduya? we did nothing and we paid for it!


Quote:

You'll move Dubinsky? Way to go out on a limb. I never said I wouldn't move Dubinsky, and I've already said before that I'd be willing to move Del Zotto in the right deal, just not as some throw-in in a package deal for a guy like Nash. I also specifically mentioned moving Stepan as a poor decision. Yet you've said you wouldn't let Stepan get in the way of acquiring Bobby Ryan.

I also said I would explore the trade market later in the summer or after camp to see if more options opened up. Granted, it's probably easier to argue against points I never made.
What was your point? If I don’t agree with picking up Mueller or Latendresse that I’d be down for every
asinine 4-1 trade I could conjure up? Talk about making up points to argue against!


Quote:

Ah yes, because we all know that being in agreement with our management always plays out so well.
I’ve embraced what management is intending to do, which is acquire 2-3 big pieces over the next
few seasons. Last year was the first move (Richards) this year....

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:15 PM
  #59
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Hence your @ss. Itís BS! the guy hasnít played a full season in 3 yrs and heís
hitting record #s. only in your world.
I stopped reading after this bit. If you really can't grasp the point I was making, there's no point in wasting anymore time with it.

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:33 PM
  #60
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Wideman contract is terribad. Players currently making more than Wideman although there are a few players here who are also vastly overpaid as well. http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/players?...ort=&year=2013

Campbell, Brian FLA
Doughty, Drew LAK
Chara, Zdeno BOS
Bouwmeester, Jay CGY
Boyle, Dan SJS
Phaneuf, Dion TOR
Karlsson, Erik OTT
Timonen, Kimmo PHI
Seabrook, Brent CHI
Burns, Brent SJS
Markov, Andrei MON
Poti, Tom WAS
Visnovsky, Lubomir NYI
Keith, Duncan CHI
Wisniewski, James CLB
Gonchar, Sergei OTT
Myers, Tyler BUF
Yandle, Keith PHX

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06-27-2012, 04:34 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
Wideman contract is terribad. Players currently making more than Wideman although there are a few players here who are also vastly overpaid as well. http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/players?...ort=&year=2013

Campbell, Brian FLA
Doughty, Drew LAK
Chara, Zdeno BOS
Bouwmeester, Jay CGY
Boyle, Dan SJS
Phaneuf, Dion TOR
Karlsson, Erik OTT
Timonen, Kimmo PHI
Seabrook, Brent CHI
Burns, Brent SJS
Markov, Andrei MON
Poti, Tom WAS
Visnovsky, Lubomir NYI
Keith, Duncan CHI
Wisniewski, James CLB
Gonchar, Sergei OTT
Myers, Tyler BUF
Yandle, Keith PHX
That's two years worth of Tom Poti's salary...

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:36 PM
  #62
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So wideman was traded and signed?

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:41 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
I'm not arguing on the dirty part. He's a very dirty player. But whiner, not so much. He isn't dirty in the sense of sticking out a knee or kicking a guy. He's old school Messier Howe dirty. Thats an element that is missing from this team. Messier was one of the dirtiest players in the league. Do you not like Messier?
Bad comparison with Messier. He should never be mentioned in the same breadth, but as a Canadian media darling that's what the majority of fans bought into. If you believe this post, we should have kept Avery.

Look, I'm not going to jump into the back and forth on the perception of Doan, I'm not looking for a babysitter... I was never a fan, but considering the team's needs for some scoring on the wings I would certainly send him a 1 or 2 year offer for market value. Outside of Kreider, we have no wings screaming to make this team. I'd like some winning experience brought in this summer, but he's far from a bad fall back.

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06-27-2012, 04:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
I'm not arguing on the dirty part. He's a very dirty player. But whiner, not so much. He isn't dirty in the sense of sticking out a knee or kicking a guy. He's old school Messier Howe dirty. Thats an element that is missing from this team. Messier was one of the dirtiest players in the league. Do you not like Messier?
He was whining to the refs after Penner scored the OT goal in game 5. He started to badmouth Brown at the handshake line and layed a dirty hit on Brown and Lewis earlier in the series. I never got to watch Messier, but of course I'd like him since he was a Ranger. If he was with any other team, I would've despised him.

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06-27-2012, 04:44 PM
  #65
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I stopped reading after this bit. If you really can't grasp the point I was making, there's no point in wasting anymore time with it.
yes your brilliant point about Mueller's upside of 25g/50p when he only hit #'s close to that in his first year in the NHL. He hasnt played a full season in the past 3yrs, yet you feel, he will not only regain his abilities, but exceed them.

i can grasp your point, i just strongly disagree with improving our top 6 with reclamation projects, especially ones coming off serious injury. we are treading water with moves like these.

replace our injured paper star forward Gaborik with players with upside coming off serious concussions.... brilliant.

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06-27-2012, 04:47 PM
  #66
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we're pining over dominic moore now. Focusing on some 4th liners that got outplayed. Boyle wasn't the same after the dirty headshot. Prust needed surgery. The whole team was gassed. If our defense wasn't so worn out, we had a real shot. But that's not only ignored by nik, he's got Staal or Girardi shipped out for forward help, then signing Suter (that'll cost what now? $8m per?.

Same depth issues, yet one is fixed by Dominic Moore and the other is fixed by a lateral move with an increased cap hit.

If the 4th line could have been fixed last February, why can't it be fixed next February when our needs are a bit more clear?

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06-27-2012, 04:52 PM
  #67
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I'm pretty sure Trxjw has said in every post that Mueller isn't the only option. He can be had with a bonus based contract. We have more than 1 wing spot to fill, so I don't know why you repeatedly debate him under the premise that Mueller has to fix every forward problem we have. Mueller with Doan/Whitney/Smyth/Latrendesse/etc is a pretty solid start to filling out the team.

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06-27-2012, 04:55 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
we're pining over dominic moore now. Focusing on some 4th liners that got outplayed. Boyle wasn't the same after the dirty headshot. Prust needed surgery. The whole team was gassed. If our defense wasn't so worn out, we had a real shot. But that's not only ignored by nik, he's got Staal or Girardi shipped out for forward help, then signing Suter (that'll cost what now? $8m per?.

Same depth issues, yet one is fixed by Dominic Moore and the other is fixed by a lateral move with an increased cap hit.

If the 4th line could have been fixed last February, why can't it be fixed next February when our needs are a bit more clear?
are you feeling ok? did you just bang your head? maybe you should lie down for awhile. find a quote where i stated any of this nonsense go ahead... i'll be waiting....

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06-27-2012, 04:57 PM
  #69
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The Wideman contract wouldn't be as bad as you're all making it out to be if the Cap were truly going to be $70m. $5.25m for a 2nd pair D on the open market under that Cap is about right.

Sounds like Feaster took Bettman to heart when he said to operate like normal.

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06-27-2012, 04:57 PM
  #70
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FWIW, this thread is not OT.

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06-27-2012, 05:00 PM
  #71
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are you feeling ok? did you just bang your head? maybe you should lie down for awhile. find a quote where i stated any of this nonsense go ahead... i'll be waiting....
Don't condescend me, buddy. If I misquoted you fine, but the rest of that crap can go directly up your ass.

I don't sit here and ask about your head, illiteracy or past christmas disappointments that seem to full your need to have every player that may become available.

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06-27-2012, 05:00 PM
  #72
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I'm pretty sure Trxjw has said in every post that Mueller isn't the only option. He can be had with a bonus based contract. We have more than 1 wing spot to fill, so I don't know why you repeatedly debate him under the premise that Mueller has to fix every forward problem we have. Mueller with Doan/Whitney/Smyth/Latrendesse/etc is a pretty solid start to filling out the team.
in every one? you sure about that? he mentioned Mueller and Latendresse, both coming off serious injuries. i think moves like this are pointless and tread water. we've had enough reclamation projects and trying to find diamonds in the rough (christensen, wolski, frolov)

Doan and Whitney at least make sense.

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06-27-2012, 05:02 PM
  #73
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Don't condescend me, buddy. If I misquoted you fine, but the rest of that crap can go directly up your ass.

I don't sit here and ask about your head, illiteracy or past christmas disappointments that seem to full your need to have every player that may become available.
lol! if you have a problem with what i wrote them come correct or dont come at all. i don't have time to waste in pi$$ing matches

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06-27-2012, 05:03 PM
  #74
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Don't condescend me, buddy. If I misquoted you fine, but the rest of that crap can go directly up your ass.

I don't sit here and ask about your head, illiteracy or past christmas disappointments that seem to full your need to have every player that may become available.
Oh we got ourselves a throwdown. name a time and a place and I'll bring the beer and the brats. and we will all watch, laugh, and take bets on who kills the other. One of you gets a hammer, the other gets a knife.

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Old
06-27-2012, 05:05 PM
  #75
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in every one? you sure about that? he mentioned Mueller and Latendresse, both coming off serious injuries. i think moves like this are pointless and tread water. we've had enough reclamation projects and trying to find diamonds in the rough (christensen, wolski, frolov)

Doan and Whitney at least make sense.
Have to agree. While they wouldnt be my first option, both Doan and Whitney would make sense. I doubt they even play in the top 6. Part of the reason we struggled in the playoffs and what led to our demise in the devils series was not enough scoring DEPTH. Having a threatening 9 as opposed to just 6 will be hard to matchup with for teams. Plus both are veterans and Doan is a solid leader to add to the group.

It makes sense on a lot of levels.

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