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Trading Private (Bobby) Ryan? All Ryan Discussion Here. [Part IV]

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06-27-2012, 05:01 PM
  #76
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Read is really being undervalued here, he plays very well on the PK, put up 24 goals this year, all while being shuffled all around in the lineup, he's only 1 year older then Ryan, he CAN play center (though he didn't do it much this year), and he's on a very good contract for the next two years. Read + Meszaros + 1st is not as unreasonable as people are making it to be...

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06-27-2012, 05:01 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
If you want to be technical about it his home is Cherry Hill, NJ so technically the Devils would be home.

I know he was a Flyers fan and his dad's relationship to the Flyers.
wrong on all levels. philly team fans outnumber the NJ/NY teams. this is philly sports territory.

the players, old and new, even live over here. I'm killing time in cherry hill to get picked up to head to the phills game as I type.

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06-27-2012, 05:02 PM
  #78
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It's alright, he probably saw all 82 games this year as opposed to the 60 that I was able to watch.

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06-27-2012, 05:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
Read is really being undervalued here, he plays very well on the PK, put up 24 goals this year, all while being shuffled all around in the lineup, he's only 1 year older then Ryan, he CAN play center (though he didn't do it much this year), and he's on a very good contract for the next two years. Read + Meszaros + 1st is not as unreasonable as people are making it to be...
fkyer
The value is there for a player who has stated that he is unhappy. Flyer would probably add a prospect or mid round pick or both. But definitely a good starting point. Unless there is another team that can offer more. Just don't think teams will be quick to pull the trigger because they know he is unhappy there and can get him for less than if he was happy there

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06-27-2012, 05:07 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
Read is really being undervalued here, he plays very well on the PK, put up 24 goals this year, all while being shuffled all around in the lineup, he's only 1 year older then Ryan, he CAN play center (though he didn't do it much this year), and he's on a very good contract for the next two years. Read + Meszaros + 1st is not as unreasonable as people are making it to be...
It's not crappy but it sure as hell won't get you Bobby Ryan.

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06-27-2012, 05:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
fkyer
The value is there for a player who has stated that he is unhappy. Flyer would probably add a prospect or mid round pick or both. But definitely a good starting point. Unless there is another team that can offer more. Just don't think teams will be quick to pull the trigger because they know he is unhappy there and can get him for less than if he was happy there
Keep thinking that. Setting yourself up for major disappointment.

It's gonna take the moon.

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06-27-2012, 05:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Just don't think teams will be quick to pull the trigger because they know he is unhappy there and can get him for less than if he was happy there
Even if we got to a point where Ryan had to be traded (which we are miles away from at this point) - every team that wants him still has to make an offer that they can expect to be better than the offers of close to 28 other teams.

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Old
06-27-2012, 05:15 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by whskybarJM View Post
wrong on all levels. philly team fans outnumber the NJ/NY teams. this is philly sports territory.

the players, old and new, even live over here. I'm killing time in cherry hill to get picked up to head to the phills game as I type.
It's still a NJ city

I'm just messing around bro I know South Jersey is all Philadelphia.

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06-27-2012, 05:18 PM
  #84
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Philly fan: "You guys are ridiculous Ryan is not worth Schenn or Couturier"

Anaheim fan: "Oh really? What is he worth?"

Philly fan: "He's worth what Mike Richards got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Schenn + Simmonds"

Philly fan: "You're ****ing crazy! He's not worth that. He's worth what Jeff Carter got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Courturier + Voracek"

Philly fan: "You guys are crazy, you would never get that!"

Anaheim fan:

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06-27-2012, 05:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Well then, that settles it...Read is just about at Ryan's level then.

Based on your assessment, however, why give up the additional asset (Meszaros) when you can just swap Read straight up for maybe Ryan Kesler? I mean, based on your logic, it would be a fair trade, right?

Matt Read - 24 Goals - 23 Assists - 47 Points

=

Ryan Kesler - 22 Goals - 27 Assists - 49 Points (Just about even)

Heck, if you really want to include Mez, though, you could probably get players like Evander Kane (younger than Ryan with similar value/potential), Rick Nash, Gabriel Landeskog, Ryan Getzlaf, etc...since after all Read wasn't far behind them in the stat sheets, which in effect, makes it a fair deal, right?

Evander Kane - 30 Goals - 27 Assists - 57 Points
Rick Nash - 30 Goals - 29 Assists - 59 Points
Gabriel Landeskog - 22 Goals - 30 Assists - 52 Points
Ryan Getzlaf - 11 Goals - 46 Assists - 57 Points

Other potentials:
David Backes - 24 Goals - 30 Assists - 54 Points
Ryan Callahan - 29 Goals - 25 Assists - 54 Points
Dustin Brown - 22 Goals - 32 Assists - 54 Points
Ryan O'Reilly - 18 Goals - 37 Assists - 55 Points
Paul Stastny - 21 Goals - 32 Assists - 53 Points

I'm sure there are more, but you get the drift...Read's value isn't close.
Most of the players you list are either close to or achieving elite defensive status, is Bobby Ryan? Matt Read also earns far FAR less than Ryan too for multiple years.

Read doesn't = Ryan, but he's closer than you'd admit. What does Ryan provide to warrant so much? There's certainly not much on the scoreboard.

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06-27-2012, 05:22 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Philly fan: "You guys are ridiculous Ryan is not worth Schenn or Couturier"

Anaheim fan: "Oh really? What is he worth?"

Philly fan: "He's worth what Mike Richards got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Schenn + Simmonds"

Philly fan: "You're ****ing crazy! He's not worth that. He's worth what Jeff Carter got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Courturier + Voracek"

Philly fan: "You guys are crazy, you would never get that!"

Anaheim fan:
Wow, you must live in your own world.

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06-27-2012, 05:25 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
Read is really being undervalued here, he plays very well on the PK, put up 24 goals this year, all while being shuffled all around in the lineup, he's only 1 year older then Ryan, he CAN play center (though he didn't do it much this year), and he's on a very good contract for the next two years. Read + Meszaros + 1st is not as unreasonable as people are making it to be...
Read had a nice rookie season...but considering his age as a rookie and the fact that he basically appeared out of nowhere, I would say his value is quite far from Ryan's value. Ryan is a proven asset, (multiple seasons of production), and is considered to be closer to a 40 goal scorer once he gets 1st unit PP duties. The Ducks would be crazy to deal him for Read as the main asset coming back. Read could very well never reach this season's totals again...and even if he levels out at what he did this season, it's still not near Ryan's level. Ryan had the worst season of his career and still hit 30 goals...that should say something about his talent level.

I'm not saying Read is not a good player...I'm more so saying that he's not near Ryan's level, nor is he projected to be. Mez and a late 1st doesn't make it better. You need to consider the opposing teams' needs when saying it's fair value. It's a star player for secondary pieces...would you make that type of trade? The Flyers didn't. They got back players (in the Richards and Carter trades) with good/high upside (Scheen, Voracek, Simmonds and a high draft pick). Anything can happen, but based on Murray's comments in the past, he isn't looking for secondary pieces, he's looking for core pieces if he moves a core piece.

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06-27-2012, 05:29 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Philly fan: "You guys are ridiculous Ryan is not worth Schenn or Couturier"

Anaheim fan: "Oh really? What is he worth?"

Philly fan: "He's worth what Mike Richards got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Schenn + Simmonds"

Philly fan: "You're ****ing crazy! He's not worth that. He's worth what Jeff Carter got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Courturier + Voracek"

Philly fan: "You guys are crazy, you would never get that!"

Anaheim fan:
This is pretty much what it all boils down to...I laughed when reading this.

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06-27-2012, 05:29 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Read could very well never reach this season's totals again...and even if he levels out at what he did this season, it's still not near Ryan's level. Ryan had the worst season of his career and still hit 30 goals...
Ryan may very well never hit his highs again. The only difference is that Ryan has had a down year whereas Read hasn't yet.

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06-27-2012, 05:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
This is pretty much what it all boils down to...I laughed when reading this.
But it's not right. I'd trade Schenn for Ryan. Not sure whether i'd add much or anything.

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06-27-2012, 05:32 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Ryan may very well never hit his highs again. The only difference is that Ryan has had a down year whereas Read hasn't yet.
Well, that, and that Ryan (including a down year) is 4-for-4 for 30 goals on a team lacking depth, while Read is 1-for-1 for 20 goals / 40 points on a stacked offense. Sample size and context are kind of important.

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06-27-2012, 05:34 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Most of the players you list are either close to or achieving elite defensive status, is Bobby Ryan? Matt Read also earns far FAR less than Ryan too for multiple years.

Read doesn't = Ryan, but he's closer than you'd admit. What does Ryan provide to warrant so much? There's certainly not much on the scoreboard.
Then FFS stop asking for him. You have Read. You don't need Ryan.

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06-27-2012, 05:36 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Most of the players you list are either close to or achieving elite defensive status, is Bobby Ryan? Matt Read also earns far FAR less than Ryan too for multiple years.

Read doesn't = Ryan, but he's closer than you'd admit. What does Ryan provide to warrant so much? There's certainly not much on the scoreboard.
Funny you mention that, because the post I was responding to did not use the same logic as you are using. His logic was that Read's stats (offensive) were so close to Ryan's that it made it fair value...period. He made no mention of anything else. I responded with a ridiculous post, to show him how ridiculous his was.

And for the record, I think you're crazy if you think Read is anywhere close to Ryan's level. Ryan is considered a star winger, (not elite, but very good) with 40 goal potential once he gets 1st unit PP time, whereas, Read is...well, nobody knows...I'm sure, whether they'll admit it or not, most if not all Flyer fans will agree, otherwise they would be wanting to trade him for Ryan. We're talking apples to oranges here...

BTW, if you're really saying there's not much on the scoreboard, when describing Bobby Ryan, then really there's no reason to go any further with this discussion. His stats speak for themselves.

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06-27-2012, 05:37 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Philly fan: "You guys are ridiculous Ryan is not worth Schenn or Couturier"

Anaheim fan: "Oh really? What is he worth?"

Philly fan: "He's worth what Mike Richards got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Schenn + Simmonds"

Philly fan: "You're ****ing crazy! He's not worth that. He's worth what Jeff Carter got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Courturier + Voracek"

Philly fan: "You guys are crazy, you would never get that!"

Anaheim fan:

Nailed it

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06-27-2012, 05:39 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Philly fan: "You guys are ridiculous Ryan is not worth Schenn or Couturier"

Anaheim fan: "Oh really? What is he worth?"

Philly fan: "He's worth what Mike Richards got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Schenn + Simmonds"

Philly fan: "You're ****ing crazy! He's not worth that. He's worth what Jeff Carter got."

Anaheim fan: "We agree. We'll take Courturier + Voracek"

Philly fan: "You guys are crazy, you would never get that!"

Anaheim fan:

Those are all ridiculous strawmen. Who is saying Ryan will get what Carter or Richards got?

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06-27-2012, 05:45 PM
  #96
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Let me start this by building up my offer he he.
It seems that Paul Martin is really determined to bounce back next year. Shero has told the press that he thinks that is what's going to happen.

So...if indeed there is a general feeling that Martin will return to his Jersey form or even to his 2010-2011 form, how about:

Martin+Despres+Kennedy+2nd

for Ryan

Ducks rebuild their defense and add a really good productive 3rd line wing.

What does everyone think?
Probably depends heavily on your evaluation of Martin.

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06-27-2012, 05:49 PM
  #97
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Those are all ridiculous strawmen. Who is saying Ryan will get what Carter or Richards got?
Well since there comparable players, it will cost you something in that ballpark.

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06-27-2012, 05:51 PM
  #98
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Those are all ridiculous strawmen. Who is saying Ryan will get what Carter or Richards got?
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=984

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06-27-2012, 05:52 PM
  #99
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This is pretty much what it all boils down to...I laughed when reading this.
So player value remains stagnant year to year? Learn something new every day, I guess. Shame Holmgren couldn't have found that out before he moved JvR.

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06-27-2012, 05:53 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by GnomE View Post
Let me start this by building up my offer he he.
It seems that Paul Martin is really determined to bounce back next year. Shero has told the press that he thinks that is what's going to happen.

So...if indeed there is a general feeling that Martin will return to his Jersey form or even to his 2010-2011 form, how about:

Martin+Despres+Kennedy+2nd

for Ryan

Ducks rebuild their defense and add a really good productive 3rd line wing.

What does everyone think?
Probably depends heavily on your evaluation of Martin.
Nobody wants Martin, if Shero thinks he will bounce back why doesn't he keep him?

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