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Clowe's Encounters of the Third Line (Off-Season Speculation Thread Part V)

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06-27-2012, 05:30 PM
  #976
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Yeah. Pavelski is either a top-6 forward on our team or he's a top-6 forward on another team. Pick whichever one you like.

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06-27-2012, 05:32 PM
  #977
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Yeah. Pavelski is either a top-6 forward on our team or he's a top-6 forward on another team. Pick whichever one you like.
You're never going to have the depth needed to win thinking like that.

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06-27-2012, 05:38 PM
  #978
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He traded for Moore, signed Handzus. BOTH to be 3rd line center. He put Pavelski on the top line. The line was good. No reason to change it.

Put Thornton on the 3rd? That's an even better 3rd line. Doesn't make your team "deeper" though. You have to sign or trade for other players.

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06-27-2012, 05:42 PM
  #979
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Mitchell Moroz is not exactly a quality pick in my estimation and certainly not the type of prospect that the Sharks ought to trade for. Big guy that can skate well but has little to no offensive skills.
Oops I thought I put 2013. An EDM fan and myself agreed on that deal and on replacing the 2nd with Ryan Jones.

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06-27-2012, 05:46 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
He traded for Moore, signed Handzus. BOTH to be 3rd line center. He put Pavelski on the top line. The line was good. No reason to change it.

Put Thornton on the 3rd? That's an even better 3rd line. Doesn't make your team "deeper" though. You have to sign or trade for other players.
And those moves were made because he dealt away the forward depth that was Setoguchi and used Pavs to replace him. That's fine and dandy but they didn't really replace Setoguchi on the line he was on and they didn't really replace Pavelski on the line he was on. And there is a reason to change it because it didn't get the job done in the playoffs and there are very particular reasons for why.

They essentially did put Thornton on the third line to start the 2010-11 season when they slapped McGinn and Mitchell on his wings.

It's a matter of utilizing the talent that you have properly. Pavelski on Thornton's wing isn't really using either of them at their best. Thornton doesn't really have a shooter that he's aiming for. Pavelski isn't really playing the style that he is at his best at.

What will make the team deeper is by going out and getting guys to put around what you have by getting the right skill sets. If they can get someone that is better at the finisher role than Pavelski and put him on a lower line to center, that fits his game better. And then you go out and you find guys that will compliment Pavelski's game because Thornton doesn't really do that.

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06-27-2012, 05:47 PM
  #981
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can next thread title be:

we drank all the marleau, but at least theres still whine in this thread?

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06-27-2012, 05:48 PM
  #982
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Why don't we just move Couture to wing instead of Pavelski?

Couture-Thornton-??? (Doan? Stafford?)
Marleau-Pavelski-Havlat

I like that better than keeping Pavs on the RW or making him #3C.

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06-27-2012, 05:53 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Why don't we just move Couture to wing instead of Pavelski?

Couture-Thornton-??? (Doan? Stafford?)
Marleau-Pavelski-Havlat

I like that better than keeping Pavs on the RW or making him #3C.
You'd need some wheels on the right side but that can work and you'd need to hope that someone stepping into the 3rd line center can actually carry his line. People can complain about making Pavs the #3C all they want but you need three strong centers to build your team around.

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06-27-2012, 05:56 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Why don't we just move Couture to wing instead of Pavelski?

Couture-Thornton-??? (Doan? Stafford?)
Marleau-Pavelski-Havlat

I like that better than keeping Pavs on the RW or making him #3C.
That is something I would rather see.

What if we put Clowe on the third line and gave that line favorable match ups? He is currently the worst of our top 6 and could be counted on with competent line mates to beat up (literally) on opposing teams lower lines.

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06-27-2012, 05:58 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
And those moves were made because he dealt away the forward depth that was Setoguchi and used Pavs to replace him. That's fine and dandy but they didn't really replace Setoguchi on the line he was on and they didn't really replace Pavelski on the line he was on. And there is a reason to change it because it didn't get the job done in the playoffs and there are very particular reasons for why.

They essentially did put Thornton on the third line to start the 2010-11 season when they slapped McGinn and Mitchell on his wings.

It's a matter of utilizing the talent that you have properly. Pavelski on Thornton's wing isn't really using either of them at their best. Thornton doesn't really have a shooter that he's aiming for. Pavelski isn't really playing the style that he is at his best at.

What will make the team deeper is by going out and getting guys to put around what you have by getting the right skill sets. If they can get someone that is better at the finisher role than Pavelski and put him on a lower line to center, that fits his game better. And then you go out and you find guys that will compliment Pavelski's game because Thornton doesn't really do that.
I agree. The Burns trade filled one major hole but dug another one. We still haven't replaced Seto, luckily that's a much easier thing to find a replacement. We should be focusing on a replacement for the top line right wing, someone like Doan, Parenteau, Semin, even Stempniak. I think a lot of us who are advocating Pavs on the third line do so seeing it as a much better option for our team to astablish three scoring lines but also as a much better option than trading him for someone like nash, who admittedly fills the top line right wing need. Keeping Pavs as he's a big part of our future and getting deeper and younger should be priorities, not getting more top heavy with a player like Nash.

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06-27-2012, 06:02 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
That is something I would rather see.

What if we put Clowe on the third line and gave that line favorable match ups? He is currently the worst of our top 6 and could be counted on with competent line mates to beat up (literally) on opposing teams lower lines.
How would putting Clowe on the third line be any different from putting Pavelski there in terms of 'rewarding proven players' or 'he's top six here or elsewhere' spiel?

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06-27-2012, 06:06 PM
  #987
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You'd need some wheels on the right side but that can work and you'd need to hope that someone stepping into the 3rd line center can actually carry his line. People can complain about making Pavs the #3C all they want but you need three strong centers to build your team around.
I think you misunderstand me. Personally, I've advocated returning Pavelski to 3C and I'd love to see that done. But it's obvious that DW and TMac have absolutely no intention of demoting Pavs. I'd simply rather that Couture be the winger if both he and Pavs are to remain in the top-6.

And yes, we'd need a burner for that first line. I've always had the impression that Doan is a good skater, but I actually have no idea.

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06-27-2012, 06:12 PM
  #988
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How would putting Clowe on the third line be any different from putting Pavelski there in terms of 'rewarding proven players' or 'he's top six here or elsewhere' spiel?
Because I view Pavs as a much better player than Clowe (Clowe is still really good). I don't believe in the 'reward' logic, just that playing Pavs 3rd line minutes would be a major waste for a player of his talent.

This also lines up with my belief that if Tmac is going to continue to go 'Power vs. Power', then our 3rd line should be designed to score a bunch of goals against opponents 3rd and 4th lines. While Pavs could do that, I believe he is best suited to play his strong two-way game against opponents best players.

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06-27-2012, 06:13 PM
  #989
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How would putting Clowe on the third line be any different from putting Pavelski there in terms of 'rewarding proven players' or 'he's top six here or elsewhere' spiel?
Because Pavs is significantly better than Clowe and Clowe can bring a physical presence Pavs doesn't have

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06-27-2012, 06:17 PM
  #990
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can next thread title be:

we drank all the marleau, but at least theres still whine in this thread?


How is this not getting more recognition?!

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06-27-2012, 06:30 PM
  #991
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Because I view Pavs as a much better player than Clowe (Clowe is still really good). I don't believe in the 'reward' logic, just that playing Pavs 3rd line minutes would be a major waste for a player of his talent.

This also lines up with my belief that if Tmac is going to continue to go 'Power vs. Power', then our 3rd line should be designed to score a bunch of goals against opponents 3rd and 4th lines. While Pavs could do that, I believe he is best suited to play his strong two-way game against opponents best players.
How much better he is isn't really relevant. Both are solid and proven top six players. That doesn't refute the issue I brought up.

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Because Pavs is significantly better than Clowe and Clowe can bring a physical presence Pavs doesn't have
And like I said in response above, how much better he is irrelevant when the argument against Pavs is being against putting proven top six players on the third line. Clowe's physical advantage is taken away by Pavelski's ability to play shutdown role and, you know, play defense. lol

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06-27-2012, 06:31 PM
  #992
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How is this not getting more recognition?!
I like it.

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06-27-2012, 06:36 PM
  #993
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I think you misunderstand me. Personally, I've advocated returning Pavelski to 3C and I'd love to see that done. But it's obvious that DW and TMac have absolutely no intention of demoting Pavs. I'd simply rather that Couture be the winger if both he and Pavs are to remain in the top-6.

And yes, we'd need a burner for that first line. I've always had the impression that Doan is a good skater, but I actually have no idea.
This is basically what I was saying, PF.

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06-27-2012, 06:39 PM
  #994
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This is basically what I was saying, PF.
I know that's what you're saying. I'm saying that they should be canned for limiting themselves like that.

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06-27-2012, 06:51 PM
  #995
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I know that's what you're saying. I'm saying that they should be canned for limiting themselves like that.
I do not get that either. Win a freaking cup by making the best lines possible and not worrying about putting players solely based on where they should be. No one argues that Pavs is not a good top line player. But it would serve the team better if we get a quick winger for the top line and move him to center the 3rd line. Spread the scoring wealth.

You have limited your options severely if the "only" place Pavs can play is RW on the top line.

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06-27-2012, 06:55 PM
  #996
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can next thread title be:

we drank all the marleau, but at least theres still whine in this thread?
I like it.

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06-27-2012, 07:29 PM
  #997
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can next thread title be:

we drank all the marleau, but at least theres still whine in this thread?
Has to happen. Gold.

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06-27-2012, 07:40 PM
  #998
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Continue here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3#post51627243

Close enough.

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