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The end of Mathieu Darche (turns down 2-way deal from Habs)

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06-27-2012, 07:58 PM
  #276
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At the end of the day Darche did what he was asked for. It's not his fault he was used way too much and in situations he shouldn't have been used. However it's time to turn the page with Darche, sign someone else from UFA

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06-27-2012, 07:58 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Yeah Darch went to the net but how effective was he? Was he gritty at all? The result counts too.

He simply has no physical play to be in the bottom 6 and lacks skills to be in the top 6. Who else besides the Canadiens would waste a roster spot on a 35 year old who is clearly not in the plan of an organization that needs to rebuild?
There are numerous roster spots every year taken up by older guys on teams that aren't likely cup contenders.

And how do the Habs need to rebuild? Look at who their best playesr were last year, and how old they are. Outside of Cole not a single guy is over 26.

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06-27-2012, 07:59 PM
  #278
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Everybody is for improving. If losing Darche means improving, well so be it. I still believe we would have been able to improve just as much AND keep Darche as a 13th forward.
Whitesnake, color me surprised, your a sound hockey mind .
What i ask you is you scan the ENTIRE NHL, you feel Darche is the best Habs can do at that position?

You feel we could do just as good with Darche, why not Dandanult?He was a guy who came to work every night on the 4th line ,why not TKO?

Only reason Darche stuck around LONG as he did ? THE TEAM WAS SMURFS and ,when they seen Darche could see over the cross bar and willing to stand out front of net on pp? He was Martin's lovechild .
That alone should not have kept him here, it was a testament of how freaking poor this team was built .Then at the end as the ship sank, the captain said SIZE DOES MATTER....LOL...


I can list 5-10 guy's better than Darche on 4th line...That to me says good bye DARCHE .If you don't see it that way, your not giving your team the best chance to win .It's called evolution from a poor team to a contender. The weak links get cut and replaced .

Would you like to bet any CONTENDER doesn't sign Darche?
That says the Habs are doin the right thing, if they want to be a contender.


Last edited by Habaneros: 06-27-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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06-27-2012, 08:00 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
And how do the Habs need to rebuild? Look at who their best playesr were last year, and how old they are. Outside of Cole not a single guy is over 26.
Tomas Plekanec?

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06-27-2012, 08:04 PM
  #280
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Tomas Plekanec?
Gionta wasn't at his best but he's well over 30 and so is Gomez.

The point is we need no more dead wood over 30 who is soft as butter.

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06-27-2012, 08:05 PM
  #281
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Tomas Plekanec?
You're right, and Gorges too.

Plekanec is just 30, Gorges going on 28.

These are great players, players teams that win the cup have playing big roles.

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06-27-2012, 08:06 PM
  #282
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Gionta wasn't at his best but he's well over 30 and so is Gomez.

The point is we need no more dead wood over 30 who is soft as butter.
Well as far as Darche goes I was a fan for what he is and I don't blame him that he was misused by the coaches and GM, but he shouldn't be an everyday starter so it's hardly a big loss. Unless the plan actually was to replace him with BGL, then it is a loss.

I'm mostly indifferent but I really don't understand the celebration, it's not like we got rid of Gomez.

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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
You're right, and Gorges too.

Plekanec is just 30, Gorges going on 28.

These are great players, players teams that win the cup have playing big roles.
And hopefully Plekanec and Gorges both have a good 4+ years left in them. Neither are untouchable but I don't see the point in blowing it all up without a good reason either.

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06-27-2012, 08:13 PM
  #283
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And hopefully Plekanec and Gorges both have a good 4+ years left in them. Neither are untouchable but I don't see the point in blowing it all up without a good reason either.
I see no reason why either of them would not be good value for the rest of their contracts.

And of course not untouchable, at this point outside of Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk and a few prospects whose future value greatly outweighs their value in a trade right now no one is. And relaly all of those guys could be had for the right deal, the right deal just isn't coming is all.

This year will play out, and if Eller improves like he did from 2 seasons ago to this one perhaps Plekanec becomes expendable.

But a big part of that is Galchenyuk.

Hell, you look at what Boston has done with Seguin and by NO means do the Habs have the center depth up top like the Bruins do...but maybe Galchenyuk plays so well he styas up, and he fits on the wing with his assets (though I've heard his foot speed isn't great) and he stays there for a couple years.

Or maybe Eller slides to the wing with either Plekx or Galchenyuk.

That's all conversation for a different topic though.

Good luck Darche, hope you find a team willing to give you a 1 way deal. Valuable guy if used properly.

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06-27-2012, 08:14 PM
  #284
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I liked Darche and all but there's NO single hockey market in N. America that's media would turn the departure of a 4th line guy like him into a major issue or a criticism of management... except Montreal. I'm expecting that if Darche isn't re-signed. They all need something to chew on, especially if it's negative. And Darche leaving and going to some place like Tampa would have the CH-loathing contingent in the media go ape as usual. And all the hoopla is irrelevant ******** because it's all for cultural reasons too. If Darche was Swedish they could give a rat's ass. Now obviously Darche is more meaningful to the franchise than Ryan White because of who he is, but not because of what he is as a player. It's part of why being a Habs fan can be super annoying.

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06-27-2012, 08:16 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Whitesnake, color me surprised, your a sound hockey mind .
What i ask you is you scan the ENTIRE NHL, you feel Darche is the best Habs can do at that position?

You feel we could do just as good with Darche, why not Dandanult?He was a guy who came to work every night on the 4th line ,why not TKO?

Only reason Darche stuck around LONG as he did ? THE TEAM WAS SMURFS and ,when they seen Darche could see over the cross bar and willing to stand out front of net on pp? He was Martin's lovechild .
That alone should not have kept him here, it was a testament of how freaking poor this team was build .Then at the end as the ship sank, the captain said SIZE DOES MATTER....LOL...


I can list 5-10 guy's better than Darche on 4th line...That to me says good bye DARCHE .If you don't see it that way, your not giving your team the best chance to win .It's called evolution from a poor team to a contender. The weak links get cut and replaced .
Key word here....AS A 13TH FORWARD. Where do I talk about 4th line? 13th forward is OCCASIONAL 4th line. And that's also when you disregard potential callups that are doing great that can be recalled EVEN if Darche is available making him, even with 1 or even 2 injuries NOT in a lineup. Yet, he'd be there in practice mentoring kids. He'd be there if needed with his usually mistake-free game and so on. Yes I guess we can think that not having room for Darche means we're getting better....but that needs to be proven. While we have tons of faith in our new management, they might actually believe one guy will end up better and we might not see it that way. Of course, if somehow they add a Ott, a Tootoo, a Prust or whoever, we are a better team. But again, those players would be part, for me, in a regular lineup...not as 13th forward. Yes, then...who cares about the 13th forward...well it's because as far as I'm concerned, it's a part of a team nonetheless. And we are talking about it. I will always beleive that we can have opinions on guys no matter the role they have on a team.

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06-27-2012, 08:19 PM
  #286
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Actually I just thought, the problem with a 2-way is that he would have to clear waivers to be called up correct? Yeah that's most definitely the problem if so.

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06-27-2012, 08:20 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Hab-a-maniac View Post
I liked Darche and all but there's NO single hockey market in N. America that's media would turn the departure of a 4th line guy like him into a major issue or a criticism of management... except Montreal. I'm expecting that if Darche isn't re-signed. They all need something to chew on, especially if it's negative. And Darche leaving and going to some place like Tampa would have the CH-loathing contingent in the media go ape as usual. And all the hoopla is irrelevant ******** because it's all for cultural reasons too. If Darche was Swedish they could give a rat's ass. Now obviously Darche is more meaningful to the franchise than Ryan White because of who he is, but not because of what he is as a player. It's part of why being a Habs fan can be super annoying.
As of now, the majority of people acknowledge that it might have been time for him to go. Most of them. I believe that, as I stated, that the ones who might have something against this move, are the ones who find, like me, a 2-way offer as not fair and would have probably prefered just a thanks but no thanks and hope you find a way to get your career going elsewhere. But as far as letting the hockey player go, the most ferocious separatist will have a tough time doing it. But we will have some. Yet, in this board, when Gaston Therrien says something, it's the whole RDS tv station that does it so I won't be surprised if I read that the "french medias" are all over this when it maybe just JC Lajoie and Réjean Tremblay who does....

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06-27-2012, 08:20 PM
  #288
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Actually I just thought, the problem with a 2-way is that he would have to clear waivers correct to be called up? Yeah that's most definitely the problem if so.
He'd have to clear waivers if it was a one-way... Not sure what you're getting at.

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06-27-2012, 08:23 PM
  #289
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Key word here....AS A 13TH FORWARD. Where do I talk about 4th line? 13th forward is OCCASIONAL 4th line. And that's also when you disregard potential callups that are doing great that can be recalled EVEN if Darche is available making him, even with 1 or even 2 injuries NOT in a lineup. Yet, he'd be there in practice mentoring kids. He'd be there if needed with his usually mistake-free game and so on. Yes I guess we can think that not having room for Darche means we're getting better....but that needs to be proven. While we have tons of faith in our new management, they might actually believe one guy will end up better and we might not see it that way. Of course, if somehow they add a Ott, a Tootoo, a Prust or whoever, we are a better team. But again, those players would be part, for me, in a regular lineup...not as 13th forward. Yes, then...who cares about the 13th forward...well it's because as far as I'm concerned, it's a part of a team nonetheless. And we are talking about it. I will always beleive that we can have opinions on guys no matter the role they have on a team.

Oh right, the Habs just offered him a 2 WAY DEAL , he said no way.
What was the problem?So you think he'd like to sit in press box as an occasional 4 liner??

The one way deal went to his head,he never should have got one.....34 years with NOT ONE one way deal???,it just isn't me ......He caught a huge break with the Habs GM ,as Bob Mac called him "unseemly"
GAUTHIER run the Habs like a AHL TEAM .....he was bragging about having 5 UNDRAFTED players in the line up.../Habs finish last....


The Habs will replace him with a guy way more versatile,who can actually play pp if needed, and sub top 2 lines once and a while for REAL .. .

To sign Darche to a one way ,to sit him in press box is a waste...


Last edited by Habaneros: 06-27-2012 at 08:32 PM.
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06-27-2012, 08:23 PM
  #290
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He'd have to clear waivers if it was a one-way... Not sure what you're getting at.
Ok sorry. Getting at that he wouldn't want to be force to move in the middle of the season if claimed, but since it isn't so. Don't know how waivers work in this situation. I thought prospects are subject to it after their ELC...

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06-27-2012, 08:47 PM
  #291
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He'd have to clear waivers if it was a one-way... Not sure what you're getting at.
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Ok sorry. Getting at that he wouldn't want to be force to move in the middle of the season if claimed, but since it isn't so. Don't know how waivers work in this situation. I thought prospects are subject to it after their ELC...
Two-way/one-way only means the salary they're owed in the AHL. A one-way deal means they are owed the same amount in the NHL and the AHL (basically insuring that the team won't send him down needlessly, as they'd lose a lot of money).

The no-waiver stuff is only if the player has played less than ~150 NHL games. A player picked up from waivers cannot be traded that season.

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06-27-2012, 08:48 PM
  #292
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Oh right, the Habs just offered him a 2 WAY DEAL , he said no way.
What was the problem?So you think he'd like to sit in press box as an occasional 4 liner??

The one way deal went to his head,he never should have got one.....34 years with NOT ONE one way deal???,it just isn't me ......He caught a huge break with the Habs GM ,as Bob Mac called him "unseemly"
GAUTHIER run the Habs like a AHL TEAM .....he was bragging about having 5 UNDRAFTED players in the line up.../Habs finish last....


The Habs will replace him with a guy way more versatile,who can actually play pp if needed, and sub top 2 lines once and a while for REAL .. .

To sign Darche to a one way ,to sit him in press box is a waste...
So the Habs tells him what I said. But you know that as a hockey player, or whatever job you're doing, you always have in the back of your mind that you'll show them. That they won't be able to sit you. And so on. Yet, if it does happen that you are sitting, you'll never be able to say that you didn't know. Just put yourself in his shoes. You were never able to have a 1-way contract. But you contined working hard until your efforts were recognize and I'm sorry but Darche was often NOT the worst player on the ice. So you do achieve the ranks of guys that have 1-way contract. But then, it's return to sender and now offered a 2-way? Like I did say, might as well not offer him anything. And I believe that offering a 2-way was a way to show that they were interested but it's Darche who refused when everybody knew he would have refused such a deal to at least what was available out there.

And Darche being replaced a guy who plays the PP and sub the first 2 lines....I have no idea what you,re talking about. That guy HAS to play in our lineup. I won't take a 13th forward and make him run the PP and sub the first 2 lines....if he's good enough to do that, he's good enough to be in my lineup regularly.

No, if anything, Darche will be replaced by a Staubitz. Or a guy like him.

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06-27-2012, 08:58 PM
  #293
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Two-way/one-way only means the salary they're owed in the AHL. A one-way deal means they are owed the same amount in the NHL and the AHL (basically insuring that the team won't send him down needlessly, as they'd lose a lot of money).

The no-waiver stuff is only if the player has played less than ~150 NHL games. A player picked up from waivers cannot be traded that season.
Thanks.

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06-27-2012, 08:58 PM
  #294
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Darche would be a dream to have in Hamilton, teaching the kids some hardwork, and as an emergency call up. Bergevin did the right thing in offering a 2 way contract.

Now, if Darche can't find a place somewhere else, maybe he'll come back to play for Hamilton. You never know. But I don't think that in a market flooded with pretty dependable plugs he'll get a 1 way contract. And i think the draft, and the management hires show that kids are going to get a shot at it next year.

Smart management by Bergevin. Let's see if Darche can get work elsewhere.
Why would you want Darche taking up a spot in Hamilton? I would prefer to see that space taken up by a young prospect who has a future.

Coaches on the payroll can teach young players all that they need to know in developing their skills.

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06-27-2012, 08:59 PM
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Two-way/one-way only means the salary they're owed in the AHL. A one-way deal means they are owed the same amount in the NHL and the AHL (basically insuring that the team won't send him down needlessly, as they'd lose a lot of money).

The no-waiver stuff is only if the player has played less than ~150 NHL games. A player picked up from waivers cannot be traded that season.
My understanding is a player picked up on waivers can be traded, but first has to be offered to the teams that put in a claim for him for free. If they pass, then the trade can continue.


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I think the issue was if Darche was to be sent down on a one-way contract the cap hit would remain because he's a 35+ contract. If it's a two way contract the cap hit doesn't stay. I assume Darche thinks he can get a one way contract and stay with the big team for the whole season.

35+ only counts to whether Darche retires, or leaves, or anything. Aside from death, a 35+ player signing a contract stays with the team whether he retires, takes a year off, goes to play in Europe, etc.

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06-27-2012, 08:59 PM
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He'd have to clear waivers if it was a one-way... Not sure what you're getting at.
I think the issue was if Darche was to be sent down on a one-way contract the cap hit would remain because he's a 35+ contract. If it's a two way contract the cap hit doesn't stay. I assume Darche thinks he can get a one way contract and stay with the big team for the whole season.

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06-27-2012, 09:00 PM
  #297
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So the Habs tells him what I said. But you know that as a hockey player, or whatever job you're doing, you always have in the back of your mind that you'll show them. That they won't be able to sit you. And so on. Yet, if it does happen that you are sitting, you'll never be able to say that you didn't know. Just put yourself in his shoes. You were never able to have a 1-way contract. But you contined working hard until your efforts were recognize and I'm sorry but Darche was often NOT the worst player on the ice. So you do achieve the ranks of guys that have 1-way contract. But then, it's return to sender and now offered a 2-way? Like I did say, might as well not offer him anything. And I believe that offering a 2-way was a way to show that they were interested but it's Darche who refused when everybody knew he would have refused such a deal to at least what was available out there.

And Darche being replaced a guy who plays the PP and sub the first 2 lines....I have no idea what you,re talking about. That guy HAS to play in our lineup. I won't take a 13th forward and make him run the PP and sub the first 2 lines....if he's good enough to do that, he's good enough to be in my lineup regularly.

No, if anything, Darche will be replaced by a Staubitz. Or a guy like him.

Whitesnake,

Darche was given a oneway contract because Gauthier felt bad,and he likely thought this was some type of "this is how you do it" example for the team ...Remember this is Gauthier thinking ...

Darche came to Montreal on a two way and played no problem , so what is the problem now? They give him his first one way in 34 years and he plays 61 games and concussion for last 21, that blew any chance of another "one way" sorry....Only way he get's the one way again if Gauthier was still Montreal GM.Matter of fact Darche was so important that year ,it was Gauthier first resigning contract as UFA wasn't it ? Just retarded .

I said many times now , Darche is a great AHL player, an all star point per game guy ...but little value in NHL .Yes he gave his all every night ,no debating that, but his all on a contending team isn't good enough.

As i said there are better guys out there to carry than Darche.
Mike Knuble is great with young guy and in room, vet, and he lives in front of net..over 500 nhl points, about near 160 points on pp,9 season of 20 goal or more,1000 NHL games....I'll take my chance on the guy to have a bounce back ,and his 6'3 230 in front of net no burden .
You want to carry a guy for league min , there's your guy .He is willing to play 4th line and mentor players.



Many other guy's for little more money can be had.
As i said yesterday , even Knuble is an upgrade, so that should highlight it .


Last edited by Habaneros: 06-27-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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06-27-2012, 09:02 PM
  #298
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Habaneros my head hurts reading the stuff you write and your comments about Knuble being great with young guys and in the room are nothing but baseless speculation on your part.

As I recall he asked for a trade last year after being a scratch for games...that's something a great veteran teammate does?

Your anti-Darche ranting is directly related to your pro-Knuble signings ranting.

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06-27-2012, 09:03 PM
  #299
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Habaneros my head hurts reading the stuff you write and your comments about Knuble being great with young guys and in the room are nothing but baseless speculation on your part.

As I recall he asked for a trade last year after being a scratch for games...that's something a great veteran teammate does?

Your anti-Darche ranting is directly related to your pro-Knuble signings ranting.
How does it relate to his pro-Laraque ranting?

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06-27-2012, 09:12 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Habaneros my head hurts reading the stuff you write and your comments about Knuble being great with young guys and in the room are nothing but baseless speculation on your part.

As I recall he asked for a trade last year after being a scratch for games...that's something a great veteran teammate does?

Your anti-Darche ranting is directly related to your pro-Knuble signings ranting.
Prove what i said was wrong ,Take the time to show everyone I'm wrong .Fact is he is a great locker room guy and with the young guys...


Sorry , your just trying to add to you post count i think .
Don't waste my time .When i say something it is because I'm not makin it up .

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