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Old
11-26-2011, 12:52 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
Good thing our goaltending and defense looks good (but inexperienced), because that's really not a very impressive forward corps compared to say 2002 or 2006. Especially considering the age of guys like the Sedins, Franzén and Zetterberg at that point.

For all the talk of these great years of Swedish talent development, it doesn't seem like we've developed any genuine first line forwards except for maybe Landeskog and Zibanejad.. and it's not a given that those guys even reach that height. Maybe F. Forsberg or Collberg... or someone surprises which isn't that improbable seeing as we've had so many drafted players in recent years.. we'll see.
That's a quick judgement.

Backstrom is a legit 1st liner.
Berglund is a good player.
Hornqvist is pretty good aswell.
Marcus Johansson is doing very well.
Josefson was doing fine until the injury.

And the main thing is that those guys a really young, espescially last 2 aswell as Backlund, Paajarvi, Tedenby and Lander.

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11-26-2011, 02:07 AM
  #77
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I agree with your judgements of those players.

But that's still not very impressive compared to the other gold candidates teams. Who out of those players would you expect become say a 75+ pt player except for the obvious one in Bäckström? I would say Berglund has a shot, but he has looked poised for a breakout year forever and yet it never seems to happen. Love watching Johansson, maybe him.. we'll see. To me Pääjärvi, Lander, Backlund, Hörnqvist, Josefson and Tedenby are all talented, but seem like second/third liners, although I really hope one or two of them surprises me. I believe we've come to expect too much of these guys because of WJC accomplishments where good defense, goaltending and general depth might have made us overrate the impact some of these guys will have in their prime.

Let's say the worst case scenario happens and players like the Sedins, Zetterberg and Franzén decline and none of the young forwards develop into a true top player in time for the 2014 Olympics. Then we would have Bäckström and Eriksson as the only real stars to carry the team up front. This is a worst case scenario which I don't expect will happen, but at the same time it isn't all that unlikely either in my opinion. The 2014 forwards might be the worst crop we've brought to an Olympic tournament in a long time.

We have got great depth all of a sudden, but that doesn't help an Olympics team all that much. Anything can happen and a lot depends on a hot goalie but all in all, I'm not that optimistic about 2014.

Not to be über-pessimistic though, I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate here but I think it's an interesting discussion. How much do we really expect from these young forwards? To me they don't seem close to as good as our brilliant young defense with guys like OEL, Karlsson, Hedman and Larsson. Up front I only see Landeskog as being on their level even though as I said I do expect some of the other forwards to really become a "star" especially in the long run. Could be a couple of the guys you mentioned, could be a Silfverberg or a Järnkrok or a Zibanejad.. time will tell. Next year looks pretty good too with Forsberg, Collberg and Åberg coming through.


Last edited by Pentothal: 11-26-2011 at 04:15 AM. Reason: spelling and clarification
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11-26-2011, 06:17 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post

Let's say the worst case scenario happens and players like the Sedins, Zetterberg and Franzén decline and none of the young forwards develop into a true top player in time for the 2014 Olympics. Then we would have Bäckström and Eriksson as the only real stars to carry the team up front. This is a worst case scenario which I don't expect will happen, but at the same time it isn't all that unlikely either in my opinion. The 2014 forwards might be the worst crop we've brought to an Olympic tournament in a long time.
I think that's because our forward crop we've sent in recent Olympics have been fantastic. We don't have a Sundin anymore, but can we really expect to have one every time? I do agree though that we will appear a bit more pale, we don't quite have the same spice, still, I don't see either of those players declining too much, not even Zetterberg who has had a horrdendous start to this season.

And on the plus side, we'll come to the 2014 olympics with probably the best set of goalies we've seen in a long while, gone are the days where Salo was pretty much our only choice. The defense looks fantastic as well, I look at some of the suggested D-pairings and we still have some really talented guys outside of the squads. Take a guy like Calle Gunnarsson for example who is getting praised in Toronto, and I really liked what I saw from him last WC too - he doesn't even make a lot of peoples squads here, and take into account that Lidström will have retired by then, that says quite a lot about our depth defensively.

We'll see how guys like Pääjärvi works out, some people are saying bust, but maybe all it takes is that he gets paired with RNH a couple of games to get him going, confidence means everything in a young player's career. I'm happy to see that OEL seems to be evolving in the right direction, he's very young but he's already looking like he'll have a bright future after some early problems with getting scratched and so on.

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11-26-2011, 07:19 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Lugaid View Post
I think that's because our forward crop we've sent in recent Olympics have been fantastic.
No arguments from me there. But we are one of the great hockey nations of the world. That's the standard that has been set for such a long time that I think it's fair to expect us to be competing for medals every Olympics.

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We don't have a Sundin anymore, but can we really expect to have one every time? I do agree though that we will appear a bit more pale, we don't quite have the same spice, still, I don't see either of those players declining too much, not even Zetterberg who has had a horrdendous start to this season.
I'm really hoping Zetterberg picks things up. At his best, he's such a great and useful player but hasn't looked the part for a while now.

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And on the plus side, we'll come to the 2014 olympics with probably the best set of goalies we've seen in a long while, gone are the days where Salo was pretty much our only choice. The defense looks fantastic as well, I look at some of the suggested D-pairings and we still have some really talented guys outside of the squads. Take a guy like Calle Gunnarsson for example who is getting praised in Toronto, and I really liked what I saw from him last WC too - he doesn't even make a lot of peoples squads here, and take into account that Lidström will have retired by then, that says quite a lot about our depth defensively.
Again, no arguments whatsoever. G + D is looking absolute incredible for the future. Which is partly why I really hope that we get a couple of great young forwards to accompany them so we can truly compete with the likes of Canada and Russia. Seems like the next bunch of promising kids coming through are mostly forwards, so that's encouraging.

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We'll see how guys like Pääjärvi works out, some people are saying bust, but maybe all it takes is that he gets paired with RNH a couple of games to get him going, confidence means everything in a young player's career. I'm happy to see that OEL seems to be evolving in the right direction, he's very young but he's already looking like he'll have a bright future after some early problems with getting scratched and so on.
I used to be very high on Pääjärvi, but I fear the critics were right and have been thinking that since last season.. It's still early for him, b ut he just doesn't seem to have the hockey sense or hands to really become a well producing star. More of a Stålberg then a Hossa I'm afraid to say. Got a bit overrated after dominating junior competitions and putting up a lot of points against second rate teams at the WC's. He also seems to be mis-handled by Edmonton, to make matters even worse.
OEL though.. sky's the limit for that kid. His skating and mind-boggling breakout passes makes him such a treat to watch.

The main reason why I brought all this up is because of the immense amount of cred our junior development has got in the last few years. And sure enough we're stacked with d-men and goaltenders all of a sudden which is obviously great to see and there are a lot of forwards with an NHL future too... but it's also worth noting that we arguably haven't seen a wonderkid forward come through since Bäckström half a decade ago.

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Old
11-26-2011, 07:34 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post

The main reason why I brought all this up is because of the immense amount of cred our junior development has got in the last few years. And sure enough we're stacked with d-men and goaltenders all of a sudden which is obviously great to see and there are a lot of forwards with an NHL future too... but it's also worth noting that we arguably haven't seen a wonderkid forward come through since Bäckström half a decade ago.
Yeah, I see your point, and I agree. I think we need to give them some time though, for example Tedenby isn't having a great year, but what's to say he won't explode in a couple of years? I could definitely see it. The potential for all these kids is there, they just need to get into the right mindset, take nothing for granted, and I think the social situation plays a big part as well. Thankfully there's still a couple more years until the next olympics, and I think we'll see a lot of difference in our internal national rankings of players between now and then.

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11-26-2011, 07:46 AM
  #81
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Agree with all of that. I'm definitely not giving up on all these guys, but I also think most of them will become second liners at best and I think it's easy to overrate their future impact since they were heroes at the WJC's for unusually deep Sweden teams.
Some will surprise, some will never amount to much. That's hockey and the unpredictability is part of what's fun with this game. The positive thing is that there are so many potential surprises that it feels like we're quite likely to see a new Zetterberg or an Alfredsson come out of (basically) nowhere. Even if scouting is better these days, it's far from perfect.

By the way, I would love to see Tedenby become a star player in the league. Such a likable player.

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11-27-2011, 03:41 PM
  #82
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I used to be very high on Pääjärvi, but I fear the critics were right and have been thinking that since last season.. It's still early for him, b ut he just doesn't seem to have the hockey sense or hands to really become a well producing star. More of a Stålberg then a Hossa I'm afraid to say. Got a bit overrated after dominating junior competitions and putting up a lot of points against second rate teams at the WC's. He also seems to be mis-handled by Edmonton, to make matters even worse.
OEL though.. sky's the limit for that kid. His skating and mind-boggling breakout passes makes him such a treat to watch.
.
Very true on both accounts.

You're team is also suited to play very well on big ice IMO. Outstanding puck movement, especially from the back end.

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11-27-2011, 05:04 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
I agree with your judgements of those players.

But that's still not very impressive compared to the other gold candidates teams. Who out of those players would you expect become say a 75+ pt player except for the obvious one in Bäckström? I would say Berglund has a shot, but he has looked poised for a breakout year forever and yet it never seems to happen. Love watching Johansson, maybe him.. we'll see. To me Pääjärvi, Lander, Backlund, Hörnqvist, Josefson and Tedenby are all talented, but seem like second/third liners, although I really hope one or two of them surprises me. I believe we've come to expect too much of these guys because of WJC accomplishments where good defense, goaltending and general depth might have made us overrate the impact some of these guys will have in their prime.

Let's say the worst case scenario happens and players like the Sedins, Zetterberg and Franzén decline and none of the young forwards develop into a true top player in time for the 2014 Olympics. Then we would have Bäckström and Eriksson as the only real stars to carry the team up front. This is a worst case scenario which I don't expect will happen, but at the same time it isn't all that unlikely either in my opinion. The 2014 forwards might be the worst crop we've brought to an Olympic tournament in a long time.

We have got great depth all of a sudden, but that doesn't help an Olympics team all that much. Anything can happen and a lot depends on a hot goalie but all in all, I'm not that optimistic about 2014.

Not to be über-pessimistic though, I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate here but I think it's an interesting discussion. How much do we really expect from these young forwards? To me they don't seem close to as good as our brilliant young defense with guys like OEL, Karlsson, Hedman and Larsson. Up front I only see Landeskog as being on their level even though as I said I do expect some of the other forwards to really become a "star" especially in the long run. Could be a couple of the guys you mentioned, could be a Silfverberg or a Järnkrok or a Zibanejad.. time will tell. Next year looks pretty good too with Forsberg, Collberg and Åberg coming through.
Players like Franzen, Zetterberg and Eriksson wern't stars at 20/21. The Sedin's have only been top tier forwards for the past 4-5 years. Things change and development time lines can be erratic and random.

The only top Swedish forward currently who was a legit star from the get-go was Backstrom, who happened to be the best Forward prospect from Sweden in a decade.

You have a plethora of talented young Forwards under 22. Johansson, Landeskog, Ziba, Jarnkrok, J Larsson, Pajaarvi, Backlund, Berglund, Tedenby, Kruger, Josefsson, Nyqvist plus various other promising players. I'd be willing to bet that from this large pool
atleast 4-5 will emerge as important Forwards for their respective NHL teams offensively. If you combine that with the 2012 draft talents and established players like Backstrom, Eriksson, Sedin's etc then you'll be very competitive.


Obviously the olympics are very competitive and Sweden won't be the favourite, but a world class D unit with excellent goaltending and an array of talented Forwards mean Sweden on paper is a major player in Sochi.

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11-29-2011, 01:48 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Players like Franzen, Zetterberg and Eriksson wern't stars at 20/21. The Sedin's have only been top tier forwards for the past 4-5 years. Things change and development time lines can be erratic and random.

The only top Swedish forward currently who was a legit star from the get-go was Backstrom, who happened to be the best Forward prospect from Sweden in a decade.

You have a plethora of talented young Forwards under 22. Johansson, Landeskog, Ziba, Jarnkrok, J Larsson, Pajaarvi, Backlund, Berglund, Tedenby, Kruger, Josefsson, Nyqvist plus various other promising players. I'd be willing to bet that from this large pool
atleast 4-5 will emerge as important Forwards for their respective NHL teams offensively. If you combine that with the 2012 draft talents and established players like Backstrom, Eriksson, Sedin's etc then you'll be very competitive.


Obviously the olympics are very competitive and Sweden won't be the favourite, but a world class D unit with excellent goaltending and an array of talented Forwards mean Sweden on paper is a major player in Sochi.
It doesn't seem all that unfeasible that 4-5 guys of the players younger than 22 become NHL first liners, especially since as you say, a lot of players develop late and some later round draft pick could become a star in the long run. But I'm very much doubting that it will happen in time for the 2014 Olympics.. Here's hoping for the best though!

To me it seems like we'll be a team in transition in 2014. For all the talent on the blue line for instance, Sweden will be short on experience.. and the older generation will be on a downward slope. 2018 should be a fun competition from a Swedish viewpoint though.. as long as NHL players will still participate.

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06-20-2012, 11:52 PM
  #85
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-If you had to pick from the best Swedish players today then I really like the potential in the power play combinations.

Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson
Edler-Karlsson

Backstrom-Zetterberg-Franzen
Enstrom-Kronwall/Ekman-Larsson

-I also like the idea of a Kronwall-Hedman defensive shutdown pairing.

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06-28-2012, 08:16 AM
  #86
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Silfverberg-Backstrom-Landeskog

Franzen-Zetterberg-Berglund

Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson

Paajarvi-Hagelin-Stalberg
(fastest line e-v-e-r)


OEL-Karlsson
(fastest defensive pairing e-v-e-r)

Kronwall-Larsson

Hedman-Edler

Lundqvist
Lehner
Markstrom

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06-29-2012, 03:10 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post

Silfverberg-Backstrom-Landeskog

Franzen-Zetterberg-Berglund

Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson

Paajarvi-Hagelin-Stalberg
(fastest line e-v-e-r)


OEL-Karlsson
(fastest defensive pairing e-v-e-r)

Kronwall-Larsson

Hedman-Edler

Lundqvist
Lehner
Markstrom


Yup, that 4th line is extremely fast. But Hagelin is not a center. I would put Johansson in there and put Hagelin on the wing instead of Stalberg. Johansson is also extremely fast!

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06-29-2012, 06:45 AM
  #88
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Canada Sweden Gold Medal game!! Lets get it going. Will be Huge!!!!

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06-30-2012, 05:02 AM
  #89
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Right now I can see small tweaks happening to the top9, but not many. 4th line up for grabs, same for 3-4 spots on defense.

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06-30-2012, 01:25 PM
  #90
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I'm not sure that Stålberg or Pääjärvi will be part of the 2014 tournament.

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07-30-2012, 01:02 AM
  #91
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What's the love with Pääjärvi?
I don't get it,

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01-27-2013, 10:12 PM
  #92
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Candidates:

Sedin (33) - Sedin (33) - Zetterberg (33)
L. Eriksson (28) - Bäckstrom (26) - Hörnqvist (27)
Backlund (24) - Berglund (25) - Landeskog (21)
Johansson (23) - Söderberg (28) - Steen (29)
Thörnberg (30) - Lundqvist (31) - Silfverberg (23)

Ekman-Larsson (22) - Karlsson (23)
Kronwall (33) - Hedman (23)
Hjalmarsson (26) - Enström (29)
Grossman (29) - Edler (27)
Gunnarsson (27) - Kronwall (31)

Lundqvist (31)
Lindbäck (25) / Enroth (25)
Lehner (22) / Markström (24)


Last edited by jfc64: 02-02-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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02-01-2013, 07:31 PM
  #93
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1A) Zetterberg - Bäckström - Silfverberg (Bäckström needs the RH shot)
1B) Sedin - Sedin - Landeskog
1C) Steen - Berglund - Eriksson
4) Hagelin - Lundqvist - Hörnqvist
Pettersson (great option to throw out to energize things)

The PK duos would be Eriksson/Steen, Hagelin/Lundqvist and Landeskog/Zetterberg.

OEL - Karlsson
Enström - Hedman
Kronwall - Larsson (for the RH shot)
Brodin

Edler: Don't think he'd adjust well to the big ice.
Franzén: Same. Also lazy as ****.

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02-02-2013, 06:07 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Systemfel View Post
1A) Zetterberg - Bäckström - Silfverberg (Bäckström needs the RH shot)
1B) Sedin - Sedin - Landeskog
1C) Steen - Berglund - Eriksson
4) Hagelin - Lundqvist - Hörnqvist
Pettersson (great option to throw out to energize things)

The PK duos would be Eriksson/Steen, Hagelin/Lundqvist and Landeskog/Zetterberg.

OEL - Karlsson
Enström - Hedman
Kronwall - Larsson (for the RH shot)
Brodin

Edler: Don't think he'd adjust well to the big ice.
Franzén: Same. Also lazy as ****.
I bought your idea with OEL and Karlsson. However, Hedman is our only physical d-man with size. Maybe it's why you have three first lines, since all your defensemen can play.

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02-03-2013, 01:31 PM
  #95
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Exactly. I actually think that the C line could prove to be our best.

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02-05-2013, 04:56 AM
  #96
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I bought your idea with OEL and Karlsson. However, Hedman is our only physical d-man with size. Maybe it's why you have three first lines, since all your defensemen can play.
Sweden really got a great pool of D-men to choose from so Edler might be left out which tells how crazy good our D pool is. Still, he does produce (only second to Karlsson of swedish D in PPG last season) and he is big and can lay big hits. I could see him paired with a defensively gifted D-man. Him and Karlsson might be to risky at the top.

PP Karlsson - Edler
PK Hedman - Kronwall

OEL- Karlsson
Hjalmarsson - Edler
Kronwall - Hedman

Good, but there is just not room:
Enström
Larsson
Gunnarsson
Strålman (he need to pick it up, but he got it)

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02-05-2013, 05:01 AM
  #97
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I'd take Enström ahead of Hjalmarsson.

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02-05-2013, 05:22 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
Sweden really got a great pool of D-men to choose from so Edler might be left out which tells how crazy good our D pool is. Still, he does produce (only second to Karlsson of swedish D in PPG last season) and he is big and can lay big hits. I could see him paired with a defensively gifted D-man. Him and Karlsson might be to risky at the top.

PP Karlsson - Edler
PK Hedman - Kronwall

OEL- Karlsson
Hjalmarsson - Edler
Kronwall - Hedman

Good, but there is just not room:
Enström
Larsson
Gunnarsson
Strålman (he need to pick it up, but he got it)
I don't like that 4th pairing. Kronwall is a bit overrated and can be very shaky at times, the same goes with hedman. I think Brodin could be in the battle for a spot by next year, he is a bit young but exactly the type of player we need on this team.

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02-13-2013, 12:08 PM
  #99
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Eriksson - Zetterberg(C) - Franzén
Daniel - Henrik(A) - Landeskog(A)
Hagelin - Bäckström - Hörnqvist
Steen - Berglund - Zibanejad/Stålberg/Silfverberg

Edler - Karlsson
Hedman - OEL
N Kronwall(A) - Enström

Lundqvist
Fasth
Lindbäck

So close: Jonas Brodin, Adam Larsson, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Johnny Oduya, Douglas Murray, Mikael Backlund, Gustav Nyquist, Marcus Johansson + Zibanejad/Stålberg/Silfverberg.

Great d-men, good forwards and questionable goalies (except for Lundqvist and you really only need one)

Alfie will probably retire...


Last edited by EK47: 02-13-2013 at 12:16 PM.
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02-13-2013, 10:38 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
Sweden really got a great pool of D-men to choose from so Edler might be left out which tells how crazy good our D pool is. Still, he does produce (only second to Karlsson of swedish D in PPG last season) and he is big and can lay big hits. I could see him paired with a defensively gifted D-man. Him and Karlsson might be to risky at the top.

PP Karlsson - Edler
PK Hedman - Kronwall

OEL- Karlsson
Hjalmarsson - Edler
Kronwall - Hedman

Good, but there is just not room:
Enström
Larsson
Gunnarsson
Strålman (he need to pick it up, but he got it)
One thing is certain. We COULD put a very talented team on ice. The question is if we will win a tournament with it. One possible scenario is that we put the Krügers, Josefssons and Silfverbergs on the ice together with our "fantasy" defense. In that case all I want is another pysical defenseman together with Hedman. At forward we have three good lines where no players will become worse. So there is room for a breakthrough player or two until then which will make our team EVEN better. We might avoid our defense not being able to take care of opposing forwards. Dribbla!

Talented team

Zetterberg - Steen - Franzén (Josefsson)
Sedin - Sedin - Krüger
Eriksson - Bäckstroke - Silfverberg
Hagelin - Berglund - Landeskog
Zibanejad

OEL - Karlsson
Kronwall - Hedman
Hjalmarsson - Enström
Brodin

Lundquist Lindbäck Fasth


Reserves:

Hörnqvist Alfredsson

Edler Larsson
Gunnarsson Ericsson
Tallinder Grossmann

Hedberg Enroth


Last edited by jfc64: 02-16-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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