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Old
06-27-2012, 10:02 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
It stinks both McLI and Fast got a little banged up but both look to be minor. These scrimmages are very important. Builds friendships, chemistry, familiarity, shows the prospects how hard it's going to be to make it to the NHL, helps guide their summer, etc. Any chance a prospect has to compete and work with NHL trainers, in an NHL facility is essential to development. Not every non first rounder can be a Mike Ridley or Tim Kerr and just show up and have the ability to play with the big club.

Lindberg looks to be a shrewd pickup. I don't expect much offense from him but he should come in and hold down the fort on the fourth line for the next decade. You all think it's funny how much Torts will use Boyle or Richards on D-Zone faceoffs, Lindberg is going to be that guy; the guy who with 7.7 seconds with a one goal lead in a tie playoff series will be out there to prevent Buffalo in 2007 again.

McLIrath will be fine. It's cool to hate him. If he projects to be what they envisioned, he's going to be a very valuable piece in the Rangers tough division/conference/whatever it's called in the future.
I agree with you that Lindberg looks like he is ready to go. But I also think he will have some time in the AHL this year, probably a mid season call up. Unless he really turns heads later this summer.

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06-27-2012, 10:04 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
It stinks both McLI and Fast got a little banged up but both look to be minor. These scrimmages are very important. Builds friendships, chemistry, familiarity, shows the prospects how hard it's going to be to make it to the NHL, helps guide their summer, etc. Any chance a prospect has to compete and work with NHL trainers, in an NHL facility is essential to development. Not every non first rounder can be a Mike Ridley or Tim Kerr and just show up and have the ability to play with the big club.

Lindberg looks to be a shrewd pickup. I don't expect much offense from him but he should come in and hold down the fort on the fourth line for the next decade. You all think it's funny how much Torts will use Boyle or Richards on D-Zone faceoffs, Lindberg is going to be that guy; the guy who with 7.7 seconds with a one goal lead in a tie playoff series will be out there to prevent Buffalo in 2007 again.

McLIrath will be fine. It's cool to hate him. If he projects to be what they envisioned, he's going to be a very valuable piece in the Rangers tough division/conference/whatever it's called in the future.
Yeah that chemistry and friendship seems to be showing. It looks like the players had a good time on that cruise thing. There were a lot of smiles and thats always a good thing I guess. You play better when your relaxed and having a good time.

And, honestly, the more hockey the better. If they can get on the ice a bit more with the big time trainers and coaches its that much better for their development into Pros.

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06-27-2012, 10:05 PM
  #253
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Lindberg will be in Sweden for 12-13.

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06-27-2012, 10:07 PM
  #254
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I'll share something here. I've spoken to at least two people who have watched McIlrath live 40 maybe 50 times each. I trust these guys. They know hockey.

Their opinion in a few selected quotes:

"The Rangers have nothing like McIlrath"

"The Rangers are sound defensively. You have to respect them but they do not scare you. McIlrath adds another dimension that will make them so much more difficult to play against."

"It' rare when a player is that big, that mobile and that mean."

"This kid is pretty scary right now. He has so much potential. He could wind up being truly frightening to play against."

Pain is coming my friends. Be patient.

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06-27-2012, 10:11 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by MrAlmost View Post
Why do you guys dislike McIlrath so much?
Some people would rather be right than happy.

I would venture that 90% of the people here thought Jessiman 2.0 when the Rangers announced the pick.

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06-27-2012, 10:17 PM
  #256
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Lindberg this season will be in the SEL but next year will be almost 22 (late October 1991 birth date) so he'll be physically ready when he crosses the pond to N/A.

Once again, for the 18,000,000 millionth time, we gotta get over the Jessiman thing. Almost a decade ago and that was in the pre-Gordie/Gorton days when Maloney and Renney were running the draft. Different regime, different rules, etc. McLIrath has much more hockey sense.

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06-27-2012, 10:19 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Some people would rather be right than happy.

I would venture that 90% of the people here thought Jessiman 2.0 when the Rangers announced the pick.
Thats exactly what I was thinking about.

And Pizza those quote sound good and I certainly hope he can do that in the NHL, but did they say anything about his positioning and gap control and maybe if his offense improved this year?

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06-27-2012, 10:38 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'll share something here. I've spoken to at least two people who have watched McIlrath live 40 maybe 50 times each. I trust these guys. They know hockey.

Their opinion in a few selected quotes:

"The Rangers have nothing like McIlrath"

"The Rangers are sound defensively. You have to respect them but they do not scare you. McIlrath adds another dimension that will make them so much more difficult to play against."

"It' rare when a player is that big, that mobile and that mean."

"This kid is pretty scary right now. He has so much potential. He could wind up being truly frightening to play against."

Pain is coming my friends. Be patient.
Hoping he can eventually turn into a Chara junior. Hoping Ranger fans can also be that patient. Chara took 4 seasons of toiling with the Pisles before turning it around in Ottawa (lol that trade). Then he took it to another level in Boston. We have to be ok with this kid slowly developing and barely contributing on the scoreboard.

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06-27-2012, 11:34 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by MrAlmost View Post
Thats exactly what I was thinking about.

And Pizza those quote sound good and I certainly hope he can do that in the NHL, but did they say anything about his positioning and gap control and maybe if his offense improved this year?
They did say that by the end of last year he had improved just about every aspect of his game. That at that point they could honestly see him as a future NHLer. They are in complete agreement about his offense. As in he has little to offer in that area. Even though he has a pretty heavy shot when he's able to get it off. Offense from McIlrath wood be like superior vanilla ice cream in addition to really good pie.

Quite honestly, I feel a bit hesitant talking things like "gap control" and "positioning" with these guys. A little like me trying to riff with Hawking about string theory. They would know I really don't know what I'm talking about and they would be right.

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06-28-2012, 04:46 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by NYR82124 View Post
It makes complete sense to me. The prospects still need to work on their game during the summer, and the Development Camp gives them the opportunity to do that with people that they could potentially be playing with in the NHL. It also give the scouts the chance to see what they have, and gives them an idea of which players could be ready to play next season. It also helps management figure out what types of players they need to get during the offseason.
Isn't that what camp is for? And we can also assume that our people have watched these kids play basically in the last couple of month's anyway...

My point is just this, the off-season is short in hockey. And the season wears alot on you.

The result is that a hockey player, in the broad picture, and especially a young hockey player, do alot of heavy lifting after the season has ended and for the first half of the summer. Then later in the summer you shift to more explosive training. And three month is nothing for a player looking to add alot of weight.

Because once the season starts, its certainly not easy to add much weight. I have been there. Do you want to do ten sets of heavy squats on Thursday if you know you have an important intra-squad game in camp on Saturday? And then it just rolls on. For some its doable, for many others its not.

And I can also guarantee that any kid on the ice in a scrimmage like that -- will try to do every thing they can on the ice to impress. In short, their summer becomes a week or two shorter...

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06-28-2012, 06:23 AM
  #261
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You're making a mountain out of a molehill

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06-28-2012, 06:38 AM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'll share something here. I've spoken to at least two people who have watched McIlrath live 40 maybe 50 times each. I trust these guys. They know hockey.

Their opinion in a few selected quotes:

"The Rangers have nothing like McIlrath"

"The Rangers are sound defensively. You have to respect them but they do not scare you. McIlrath adds another dimension that will make them so much more difficult to play against."

"It' rare when a player is that big, that mobile and that mean."

"This kid is pretty scary right now. He has so much potential. He could wind up being truly frightening to play against."

Pain is coming my friends. Be patient.
That's good to hear. People also have to remember how young and raw these kids are. There is plenty of time for these guys to develop but some people just have no patience. They need to learn, adjust, and utilize their skills. Organize the damn tool chest ya know. This team has been lacking that physical presence on the back end for quite some time. If it all pans out with McIlrath, it will be quite a refreshing sight and feeling.

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06-28-2012, 06:38 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAlmost View Post
Why do you guys dislike McIlrath so much?
I think its because nobody, and I mean nobody, that knows what they are doing can be 100% confident that McI even will become a NHLer.

I am not negative, because I do belive that he will become a NHLer if he does the right things and we do the right things for the coming years. But that's no guarantee. Both sides could become impatient.

I've seen it so many times. A 3rd round pick in the same position would come in, be a positive suprise for years, be super-positive and develop on a month by month basis. But if its a high first round pick?

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06-28-2012, 09:00 AM
  #264
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For contextual purposes, where does Dylan's defensive game stack up to, say, Bickel?

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06-28-2012, 09:14 AM
  #265
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you can factor in where a guy gets picked to judge the draft but when the kid comes into the nhl than you judge him based on whether or not he is a valuable asset to the team regardless of where he was picked. that no longer matters.

Carl Hagelin was drafted in the 6th round, 168th overall. as a draft pick, thats great value. in terms of evaluating if he is good enough to remain on the top line with richards and gaborik or if he is better suited on the 3rd line, that means beyond NOTHING. he doesn't get bonus points for being a late round pick. it doesn't matter if he was picked 1st overall, 168th or signed as an undrafted ufa. either he is good enough for the top line and makes us better in that spot or he doesn't...

same with mcilrath...in terms of draft pick value you might think it was a bad pick but until you develop a time machine that doesn't matter. but his VALUE to the rangers will be determined by the physical presence he brings to the blueline. if he brings a jeff beukeboom presence to the blueline (something we've been trying to replace for 14 years since beuke got hurt) then he will add big value to our blueline. and when he was drafted will have ZERO impact on that value. his value does NOT go up in any way if he had been picked later in the draft.

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06-28-2012, 09:16 AM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'll share something here. I've spoken to at least two people who have watched McIlrath live 40 maybe 50 times each. I trust these guys. They know hockey.

Their opinion in a few selected quotes:

"The Rangers have nothing like McIlrath"

"The Rangers are sound defensively. You have to respect them but they do not scare you. McIlrath adds another dimension that will make them so much more difficult to play against."

"It' rare when a player is that big, that mobile and that mean."

"This kid is pretty scary right now. He has so much potential. He could wind up being truly frightening to play against."

Pain is coming my friends. Be patient.
That's exactly why they drafted him and what we all hope and pray he will be. It's also the reason why people around here need to stop putting his name into every conceivable, potential package in proposed trades unless it's for Shea Weber!
Hands off of Mr. McIIrath please.

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06-28-2012, 09:36 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Isn't that what camp is for? And we can also assume that our people have watched these kids play basically in the last couple of month's anyway...

My point is just this, the off-season is short in hockey. And the season wears alot on you.

The result is that a hockey player, in the broad picture, and especially a young hockey player, do alot of heavy lifting after the season has ended and for the first half of the summer. Then later in the summer you shift to more explosive training. And three month is nothing for a player looking to add alot of weight.

Because once the season starts, its certainly not easy to add much weight. I have been there. Do you want to do ten sets of heavy squats on Thursday if you know you have an important intra-squad game in camp on Saturday? And then it just rolls on. For some its doable, for many others its not.

And I can also guarantee that any kid on the ice in a scrimmage like that -- will try to do every thing they can on the ice to impress. In short, their summer becomes a week or two shorter...
I'm suprised that you put so little stock in the camaraderie these kids develop (pun intended) in this camp. It might also be intimidating for the newly drafted players to start their team affiliation with the main pre-season camp and even more some of these kids wouldn't be able to attend the main camp (college kids) or would attend it for a very short period of time (and obviously they wouldn't get the amount of attention they get at that development camp). Plus the potential future benefit of having undrafted prospects participating.
I see the benefits significantly outweight the detriments of a week long camp in June.

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06-28-2012, 09:41 AM
  #268
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Just a guess but I'd say it's the same reason why they would want to trade Gaborik or MDZ every season. Because Ranger fans in general are a fickle bunch. Some people still have butt-hurt from us not taking Cam "can't play defense but had one decent season" Fowler (heck, even he could bounce back like MDZ did). Because Ranger fans in general are an impatient lot. The concept of waiting 4 years for a d-man to develop and mature is fundamentally offensive. If he can't make the team right away like MDZ and Staal did, he's an automatic bust/failure. because on the internet, we can be as loud and obnoxious as we want and even thought Leslie is the only one with any first-hand observations, we can be total d-bags and say **** like we already know everything. because their sense of worth is the summations of "i told you so's" that they can rack up?
It's not so much about people disliking McIIrath per say it's more about the fact that he was picked so high in the draft and he's still viewed by a lot of people as a "project." who may or may not make an impact for us in the future.
I've always been fine with the pick of McIIrath because he potentially brings a dimension to our defense that we haven't had around here in over 15 years(since Beuk).
Btw, neither Del Zotto or Staal made the Rangers right out of the draft; DZ did his 2nd year and Staal his 3rd year(I think).

Also, if the opportunity presented itself to trade Gaborik(hypothetically) for an impact player/prospects/ picks, whatever, that's something the Ranger's hierachy would definitely consider doing in my opinion.

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06-28-2012, 09:42 AM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'll share something here. I've spoken to at least two people who have watched McIlrath live 40 maybe 50 times each. I trust these guys. They know hockey.

Their opinion in a few selected quotes:

"The Rangers have nothing like McIlrath"

"The Rangers are sound defensively. You have to respect them but they do not scare you. McIlrath adds another dimension that will make them so much more difficult to play against."

"It' rare when a player is that big, that mobile and that mean."

"This kid is pretty scary right now. He has so much potential. He could wind up being truly frightening to play against."

Pain is coming my friends. Be patient.
Again, what will be interesting is whether he brings enough other skills to be a top 4 guy who does all that. Maybe a Darian Hatcher type

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06-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #270
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Again, what will be interesting is whether he brings enough other skills to be a top 4 guy who does all that. Maybe a Darian Hatcher type
The hope was/is that he'd be like Derian Hatcher.

The reality is more likely Adam McQuaid, Matt Greene, or Doug Murray. 12 minutes a game, bottom pairing Dmen.

Those kind of players add value to the team and I won't have a problem with him playing that role. I've said that since he was drafted.

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06-28-2012, 10:20 AM
  #271
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Not sure if this was posted but here's yesterdays highlights: http://blueshirtsunited.com/videos/1...age-highlights


I know it's a small sample but Christ Noreau looked bad

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06-28-2012, 10:27 AM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'll share something here. I've spoken to at least two people who have watched McIlrath live 40 maybe 50 times each. I trust these guys. They know hockey.

"This kid is pretty scary right now. He has so much potential. He could wind up being truly frightening to play against."

Pain is coming my friends. Be patient.
Was it Gordie Clark who said just wait until this kid (McIlrath) is 22 years old? Dylan just turned 20...people need to be a little more patient with draft picks.

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06-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #273
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Who is this Jean? He is getting a lot of good reviews during the scrimmages (including today).

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06-28-2012, 10:58 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Was it Gordie Clark who said just wait until this kid (McIlrath) is 22 years old? Dylan just turned 20...people need to be a little more patient with draft picks.
Clark past quotes:

Quote:

No. 10 pick:

BRANISLAV MEZEI, D

Shoots: Left

Age: 18 Height: 6-41/2 Weight: 221

'98-99 Stats: 5 goals, 18 assists in 60 games for Belleville (OHL).

"He's one of the best his age at the defensive game," Isles draft guru Gordie Clark said. "He astonished me at the World Junior Championships against the Sedin twins and Sweden."

Pick No. 28

KRISTIAN KUDROC, D

Shoots: Right

Age: 18 Height: 6-6 Weight: 229

'98-99 Stats: 11 goals, 23 assists in 41 games for Michalovce in the Slovakian First Division.

"He's someone who reminds me of where (Isles defenseman Zdeno) Chara was at that age," Clark said. "And he's shown offense at an early age, slamming the puck at the net."
http://articles.nydailynews.com/1999...-weight-height

My point is that its just MORE projection when I would like to hear what he has to say about his last 3 years in juniors. Specifically, what besides his skating has improved in 3 years?

Who's being impatient? Almost every prospect in hockey gets discussed on these boards everyday, charting their progress from the minute they're drafted. I was ready to take two Russians in the last 3 drafts, both predicted to on the big club in 4 or 5 years from their draft.

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06-28-2012, 11:30 AM
  #275
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ill chime in.

dylans size and skating are impressive for such a big bruising player. hes an imposing, intimidating figure on the ice. until you stand next to him on skates, you dont really realize his largeness. he hits to hurt. and he can flat out bring it. dude can fight. he will hurt you if he catches you on the beak.

on top of all that, hes an entirely solid guy and a future team leader/captain. by all accounts, hes a solid person and that does make a difference.

having said all that, my concern is pretty simple. alot of what i just wrote could be about any number of lower round pick/prospects in that years draft and also a few free agents. all those things are nice but they arent true "hockey talent". in other words, what dylan brings was available at other than the 10th overall pick in that draft. there were other guys who had similar skill sets taken below dylan.

and on top of that, and perhaps more importantly, there were other players still available at the time he was chosen that were more ready, more talented, and less long term project. they were in a word, safer.

dylans hockey sense or "hockey iq" isnt off the charts and in fact, it continues to be a work in progress. those who have watched him the last few years are impressed with his overall play and general steady improvement but his overall on ice effectiveness continues to be so-so. his decision making needs to improve.

hes got enormous potential to be a shut down guy but he is also just as likely to be a bottom pair guy who adds a dimension that all teams need but at 10-12 minutes per night, is that enough ?

was he the right pick at 10 ? time will tell but there is room in this organization or any for that matter, for a guy like dylan mcilrath. he will play.

then again, theres a ton of room for vlad tarasenko too.....

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