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Luongo XVI - Licence to Save (Mod Warning in OP)

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06-28-2012, 10:24 AM
  #951
vanwest
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[QUOTE=Liferleafer;51653317]
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

Just so you are aware, Reimer went 4-0-1 before having his bell rung and 20-10-5 the previous year. Even with his injury, his carreer is 34-24-9. It's not impossible that he can actually win games...but hey, i'm sure Gillis knows better.
4-0-1! Surprised he didn't make the all star team.

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06-28-2012, 10:25 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
Burke's said numerous times that hes fine with Reimer starting next year and he still believes he will be a starter some time in the future. He's also said that he doesnt wanna make a trade thats for short term success, even if it means him getting fired.

For all the Canucks fans saying that they don't have to trade Luongo and its alright to keep him, the same can be said for leaf fans about getting Luongo. Burke doesnt HAVE to get him, don't see why everyone thinks that...
Everyone knows that Reimer and Scrivens are terrible. I know because Vancouver fans tell me so.

The logic is strong.. didn't you know that having a concussion doesn't affect the play of a goalie.

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06-28-2012, 10:25 AM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I think Boston started this trend and it's really gone over to the rest of the league. Vancouver & Boston had two solid goalies that they felt comfortable with if they make the playoffs. Now look... Pittsburgh goes out and gets Vokoun to backup Fleury. The trend reminds me when the NFL started using 2 RBs on every team.

I think we are 15 pages too much in this thread. Nucks should just keep the damn guy if value isn't there. We can tell value isn't there as the trade hasn't yet hit.
I certainly agree that if the value isn't there we should just keep him (or shop Schneider). We do have Eddie Lack ready for his shot, but obviously not at the expense of a bad deal for one of our starters. There's absolutely no reason to trade away either goalie without addressing our needs. We have proven to be an elite team with this tandem, and you really do need 2 solid goalies to be successful.

I think the days of building around a 75 game workhorse goalie are gone.

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06-28-2012, 10:26 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

4-0-1! Surprised he didn't make the all star team.
Who knows, he might have... BUT THEN HE GO INJURED WITH A CONCUSSION/NECK INJURY

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06-28-2012, 10:26 AM
  #955
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[QUOTE=vanwest;51653391]
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post

4-0-1! Surprised he didn't make the all star team.
Well...i'd love to give you a larger sample size....but being thats when he got hurt...not sure what i can do. But thanks for the useless retort anyway.

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06-28-2012, 10:27 AM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
Burke's said numerous times that hes fine with Reimer starting next year and he still believes he will be a starter some time in the future. He's also said that he doesnt wanna make a trade thats for short term success, even if it means him getting fired.

For all the Canucks fans saying that they don't have to trade Luongo and its alright to keep him, the same can be said for leaf fans about getting Luongo. Burke doesnt HAVE to get him, don't see why everyone thinks that...
Along with Reimer, Burke has also called Guss and Weekes "goalies of the future". Goalie evaluations are probably the weakest part of Burke's attributes. If he called Reimer the goalie for the future then i would be very worried.

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06-28-2012, 10:27 AM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
Burke's said numerous times that hes fine with Reimer starting next year and he still believes he will be a starter some time in the future. He's also said that he doesnt wanna make a trade thats for short term success, even if it means him getting fired.

For all the Canucks fans saying that they don't have to trade Luongo and its alright to keep him, the same can be said for leaf fans about getting Luongo. Burke doesnt HAVE to get him, don't see why everyone thinks that...
What would you expect him to say?
Nonis said earlier that they would not go with the status quo in net.
Just so you know, Gillis said Vancouver was prepared to go with both goalies. I don't believe either Gillis or Burke on this one.

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06-28-2012, 10:29 AM
  #958
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[QUOTE=Liferleafer;51653575]
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

Well...i'd love to give you a larger sample size....but being thats when he got hurt...not sure what i can do. But thanks for the useless retort anyway.
You took a 5 game sample size from last year and gave him a pass for the rest of the season based on his concussion. Speaking of useless retorts.

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06-28-2012, 10:30 AM
  #959
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[QUOTE=vanwest;51653723]
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post

You took a 5 game sample size from last year and gave him a pass for the rest of the season based on his concussion. Speaking of useless retorts.
Care to name me ONE player who had a concussion and didn't have a falloff in play?? See Ryan Miller for a nice comparison....his play was horrid until he fully recovered.

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06-28-2012, 10:32 AM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
Burke's said numerous times that hes fine with Reimer starting next year and he still believes he will be a starter some time in the future. He's also said that he doesnt wanna make a trade thats for short term success, even if it means him getting fired.

For all the Canucks fans saying that they don't have to trade Luongo and its alright to keep him, the same can be said for leaf fans about getting Luongo. Burke doesnt HAVE to get him, don't see why everyone thinks that...
See,

Andrew Raycroft
Martin Brochu
Dan Cloutier

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06-28-2012, 10:33 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

You took a 5 game sample size from last year and gave him a pass for the rest of the season based on his concussion. Speaking of useless retorts.
You forgot about the sample from the year before. It's entirely logical to think that he did well at the end of the season before and then started the next season just as good that he would continue the trend. Your reasoning is to discount that and base his ability on his play when he was injured.

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06-28-2012, 10:33 AM
  #962
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IMO it seems to come down to the Nucks, Leafs and Oilers. All the speculation is meaningless tho because no one other that Schultz has any clue where he is leaning. My speculation is thats its between the Leafs and Nucks. Gardiner is playing a huge part for both clubs, for instance Schultz is prob concerned that if he signs with Leafs then Gardiner gets traded to Nucks then . So I can see Schultz needing a guarantee from Burke that Gardiner is not going to the Nucks or if it comes out that Van is going after Gardiner+ for Lou++ maybe(Gardiner+Grabovski+2013 1st+Kadri or Colbourne for Lou+Kessler) then Schultz is 100% going to the Nucks. That wouldn't bad for the Nucks to get Grabovski+Gardiner+Schultz+Kadri or Colbourne+2013 1st for Lou+Kessler.

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06-28-2012, 10:34 AM
  #963
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Quote:
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Why would Schneider sign a one year offersheet to go to toronto?

It makes no sense.
It makes no sense for a team to even give an offer sheet for one year.

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06-28-2012, 10:35 AM
  #964
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[QUOTE=Liferleafer;51653829]
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

Care to name me ONE player who had a concussion and didn't have a falloff in play?? See Ryan Miller for a nice comparison....his play was horrid until he fully recovered.
That Crosby kid looked pretty good when he came back from a concussion. There's a saying in business. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. I guess I just give Burke credit for being a more competent GM than most of you do. I see almost zero chance he goes status quo next year. For what it's worth many Leaf posters were posting similar predictions on the Monster that they are now posting about Reimer. He may or may not rebound this year. It would be foolhardy to count on it. Just my opinion. It looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree on what Burke will do here.

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06-28-2012, 10:36 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
You forgot about the sample from the year before. It's entirely logical to think that he did well at the end of the season before and then started the next season just as good that he would continue the trend. Your reasoning is to discount that and base his ability on his play when he was injured.
No I didn't. The NHL is riddled with goalies who had great rookie years and then faded.

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06-28-2012, 10:36 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
IMO it seems to come down to the Nucks, Leafs and Oilers. All the speculation is meaningless tho because no one other that Schultz has any clue where he is leaning. My speculation is thats its between the Leafs and Nucks. Gardiner is playing a huge part for both clubs, for instance Schultz is prob concerned that if he signs with Leafs then Gardiner gets traded to Nucks then . So I can see Schultz needing a guarantee from Burke that Gardiner is not going to the Nucks or if it comes out that Van is going after Gardiner+ for Lou++ maybe(Gardiner+Grabovski+2013 1st+Kadri or Colbourne for Lou+Kessler) then Schultz is 100% going to the Nucks. That wouldn't bad for the Nucks to get Grabovski+Gardiner+Schultz+Kadri or Colbourne+2013 1st for Lou+Kessler.
Burke pretty much already made that guarantee.

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06-28-2012, 10:36 AM
  #967
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I'm sure I'll be accused of trolling, which I'm not, but... if it's so great to have these two goalies, why is Vancouver looking to move one? Wouldn't it be smarter to keep both and have the strongest team possible to try to win the Cup?

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06-28-2012, 10:37 AM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
IMO it seems to come down to the Nucks, Leafs and Oilers. All the speculation is meaningless tho because no one other that Schultz has any clue where he is leaning. My speculation is thats its between the Leafs and Nucks. Gardiner is playing a huge part for both clubs, for instance Schultz is prob concerned that if he signs with Leafs then Gardiner gets traded to Nucks then . So I can see Schultz needing a guarantee from Burke that Gardiner is not going to the Nucks or if it comes out that Van is going after Gardiner+ for Lou++ maybe(Gardiner+Grabovski+2013 1st+Kadri or Colbourne for Lou+Kessler) then Schultz is 100% going to the Nucks. That wouldn't bad for the Nucks to get Grabovski+Gardiner+Schultz+Kadri or Colbourne+2013 1st for Lou+Kessler.
We're not trading Kesler for futures, regardless of how people value those futures.

Liferleafer and I basically agreed on
Lombardi, Kadri, Tor 1st
for Luongo, Van 1st.

Anyone dead against this?

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06-28-2012, 10:37 AM
  #969
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[QUOTE=vanwest;51654141]
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post

That Crosby kid looked pretty good when he came back from a concussion. There's a saying in business. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. I guess I just give Burke credit for being a more competent GM than most of you do. I see almost zero chance he goes status quo next year. For what it's worth many Leaf posters were posting similar predictions on the Monster that they are now posting about Reimer. He may or may not rebound this year. It would be foolhardy to count on it. Just my opinion. It looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree on what Burke will do here.
Exactly how long was he out??? Get real.

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06-28-2012, 10:37 AM
  #970
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
IMO it seems to come down to the Nucks, Leafs and Oilers. All the speculation is meaningless tho because no one other that Schultz has any clue where he is leaning. My speculation is thats its between the Leafs and Nucks. Gardiner is playing a huge part for both clubs, for instance Schultz is prob concerned that if he signs with Leafs then Gardiner gets traded to Nucks then . So I can see Schultz needing a guarantee from Burke that Gardiner is not going to the Nucks or if it comes out that Van is going after Gardiner+ for Lou++ maybe(Gardiner+Grabovski+2013 1st+Kadri or Colbourne for Lou+Kessler) then Schultz is 100% going to the Nucks. That wouldn't bad for the Nucks to get Grabovski+Gardiner+Schultz+Kadri or Colbourne+2013 1st for Lou+Kessler.
Even though you posted in the wrong thread i'd say no to that. Burke's already said trade talks end when another team brings up Gardiner.

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06-28-2012, 10:37 AM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We're not trading Kesler for futures, regardless of how people value those futures.

Liferleafer and I basically agreed on
Lombardi, Kadri, Tor 1st
for Luongo, Van 1st.

Anyone dead against this?
I'm still good with it.

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06-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
I'm sure I'll be accused of trolling, which I'm not, but... if it's so great to have these two goalies, why is Vancouver looking to move one? Wouldn't it be smarter to keep both and have the strongest team possible to try to win the Cup?
That would be true at almost any other position eg defence, center etc. But there can only be one guy in net at a time. Heck, even Staal got tired of being the third center in Pitts behind Malkin and Crosby.

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06-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #973
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
So, it's a bad situation for Vancouver having two great goalies and a good situation for Toronto having none. Burke is in a bad situation and I think he knows it despite all the Scrivens/Reimer bravado.
How about this - they're both in difficult situations at the moment. Or at least less than ideal situations.

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06-28-2012, 10:40 AM
  #974
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[QUOTE=Liferleafer;51654255]
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

Exactly how long was he out??? Get real.
LOL! I take it you didn't like the answer. Lots of players come back from concussions and play well. Like I said hope for the best but plan for the worst. After Raycroft and the Monster you guys should know this.

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06-28-2012, 10:42 AM
  #975
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
It makes no sense for a team to even give an offer sheet for one year.
No, it makes a lot of sense from the outside. If the player accepts it then it shows there are strains with his current team, if they match they cant trade him for one year and it puts doubt on their ability to resign him if he agreed to a one year deal in the first place. It keeps compensation down by sending a lower offer that wont cost as much.

The only downside is trying to get the player to agree to it. You have to convince him that there will be a better deal in the future than what his current team will give him.

Long term deals dont make sense for offer sheets, the compensation is too much and if they make cap sense the team will just match anyways.

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