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Luongo XVI - Licence to Save (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
06-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #976
vanwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
How about this - they're both in difficult situations at the moment. Or at least less than ideal situations.
I would be prepared to drink to that. If it was a little later on the West Coast, that is.
All in all though I'd rather have too many good goalies than possibly none at all.

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06-28-2012, 10:44 AM
  #977
Liferleafer
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[QUOTE=vanwest;51654445]
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post

LOL! I take it you didn't like the answer. Lots of players come back from concussions and play well. Like I said hope for the best but plan for the worst. After Raycroft and the Monster you guys should know this.
Use any other product you want. Even if the one you have isn't as pretty as the one being offered, YOU DO NOT OVERPAY just so you can have it.

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06-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
Except one goalie could end up as a UFA next year and the others best days are numbered. It's in Vancouver's best interests to keep Schneider and move Luongo. If they don't and Schneider leaves they won't have a young goalie to take over when Luongo's game drops.
Eddie Lack says hi... He is probably at this point at least as well touted as Scrivens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We're not trading Kesler for futures, regardless of how people value those futures.

Liferleafer and I basically agreed on
Lombardi, Kadri, Tor 1st
for Luongo, Van 1st.

Anyone dead against this?
I say no. I still like the proposals from FLA more, I think the low watermark from them was Ellerby Upshall and a first.

Why are we just flipping firsts? At this point the value is not there in that offer, Kadri and Lambordi is not what I would like.

I really see this going till at least mid July. The Canucks will want to wait to see what their needs are after FA, they will probably have Cory locked up, and will be holding a much stronger bargaining position. I think at the draft Gillis was only going to trade Lui for an over payment. We didn't get one, and now you will see the price drop a bit. I still expect the assets returning being something like:

A prospect - how could depends on the rest of the package.
A roster player/dump - someone who can be of use to the Canucks but probably gets paid more than a team would like.
A draft pick - also depends on the rest of the package for how high, but I would guess most likely a 1st or second.

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06-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #979
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No, it makes a lot of sense from the outside. If the player accepts it then it shows there are strains with his current team, if they match they cant trade him for one year and it puts doubt on their ability to resign him if he agreed to a one year deal in the first place. It keeps compensation down by sending a lower offer that wont cost as much.

The only downside is trying to get the player to agree to it. You have to convince him that there will be a better deal in the future than what his current team will give him.

Long term deals dont make sense for offer sheets, the compensation is too much and if they make cap sense the team will just match anyways.
Seems like a big downside if the player agrees to the offer sheet and then signs elsewhere the next off season. You've lost the compensatory picks, you've lost the player, and you have to start your search over.

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06-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
So what happened with the amazing samjam saying that Luongo would be gone at the draft? Clearly hes super reliable.
He was traded to the Columbus fanbase to get scoops on Rick Nash trades.

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06-28-2012, 10:52 AM
  #981
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[QUOTE=Liferleafer;51654675]
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

Use any other product you want. Even if the one you have isn't as pretty as the one being offered, YOU DO NOT OVERPAY just so you can have it.
Problem is your definition of overpayment is a poor one.

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06-28-2012, 10:52 AM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Eddie Lack says hi... He is probably at this point at least as well touted as Scrivens.



I say no. I still like the proposals from FLA more, I think the low watermark from them was Ellerby Upshall and a first.

Why are we just flipping firsts? At this point the value is not there in that offer, Kadri and Lambordi is not what I would like.

I really see this going till at least mid July. The Canucks will want to wait to see what their needs are after FA, they will probably have Cory locked up, and will be holding a much stronger bargaining position. I think at the draft Gillis was only going to trade Lui for an over payment. We didn't get one, and now you will see the price drop a bit. I still expect the assets returning being something like:

A prospect - how could depends on the rest of the package.
A roster player/dump - someone who can be of use to the Canucks but probably gets paid more than a team would like.
A draft pick - also depends on the rest of the package for how high, but I would guess most likely a 1st or second.
Which proposal from a Fla fan are you referring to. There's been a lot of canucks throwing out names of prospects they'd like, but I don't think any Florida fans have agreed to a proposal that includes Ellerby, Bjugstad, etc.

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06-28-2012, 10:52 AM
  #983
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Unreliable sources happen... that's why we use our strong sources instead. Maybe he was being shopped around. It doesn't mean a darn thing if the value isn't coming back.

I think that's the #1 thing about trades. We can rumor them all we want, doesn't mean it will happen.

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06-28-2012, 10:54 AM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I would be prepared to drink to that. If it was a little later on the West Coast, that is.
All in all though I'd rather have too many good goalies than possibly none at all.
I'd rather have two good goalies, too. Preferably one starter and one capable back-up.

Some teams are just going to choose to build for the future and have made the decision to keep their kiddies and pay the price for a couple more years. It may not be a choice that makes sense to a team that's in win-now mode, but that's the way it is.

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06-28-2012, 10:54 AM
  #985
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[QUOTE=freakydave;51655099]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Problem is your definition of overpayment is a poor one.
I've seen proposals of 4-5 pcs including 2 high picks and a couple of high (for the Leafs) prospects in exchange for Luongo. Thats overpayment.

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06-28-2012, 10:57 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
How about this - they're both in difficult situations at the moment. Or at least less than ideal situations.
Sounds about right. The Canucks have a dispute with goalies and starting icetime, that's nothing new but the CBA puts pressure on them since Schneider can become a UFA much sooner than he would have 10 years ago. The Oilers ended up having to deal away Andy Moog rather than keep the Fuhr-Moog tandem going, that's one example from the past.

The Leafs dont have an established starter in net, that's a problem. Of course neither does Detroit or Chicago for that matter and they've gotten by, continued to make the playoffs at least.

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06-28-2012, 11:00 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Seems like a big downside if the player agrees to the offer sheet and then signs elsewhere the next off season. You've lost the compensatory picks, you've lost the player, and you have to start your search over.
You get a full year to negotiate before he becomes a free agent and like I said you keep the offer low so the compensation isnt that bad. Teams have given up much worse than a couple picks for guys who dont work out or who flee as free agents.

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06-28-2012, 11:02 AM
  #988
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I fig value wise Grabs+Gardiner+Colbourne or Kadri+2013 1st(gotta make it top 5 protected) for Lou+Kessler is a bit of an over payment for Lou and Kessler but Kessler can be that #1 C needed and Lou the goalie needed. Plus Grabovski isn't that much of a downgrade that getting Kadri+2013 1st makes it great for the future plus having Gardiner on the back end will make the Nucks D able to put up points no matter what pair is on the ice. As a Leaf fan the only way I would even consider it is if Kessler is 100% and not a risk. If this trade were to happen and Kessler is 1 or 2 injuries away from retirement and Lou can't handle the media in Tor it could destroy the team. The risk is enormous for the present and especially the future. As far as for the Nucks go it has way less risk in that Grabovski is a durable 2 way C who can put up 50+ on a bad team so with good wingers I expect 65. Also Kadri has the raw skill to be a tougher Ribero and if the trade blows up for the Leafs that 2013 1st could be good but not top 5 due to it being protected. When you factor in the fact that Schultz would go to Van in a heartbeat if he knew Gardiner was going there then this trade becomes even more lopsided.

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06-28-2012, 11:04 AM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Which proposal from a Fla fan are you referring to. There's been a lot of canucks throwing out names of prospects they'd like, but I don't think any Florida fans have agreed to a proposal that includes Ellerby, Bjugstad, etc.
You have to go back at least a few James bond threads.

You will note in the low watermark one I referred to it only had Ellerby, not both.

Low watermark from them a few James Bond movies ago was Ellerby, Upshall and a first.

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06-28-2012, 11:04 AM
  #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Sounds about right. The Canucks have a dispute with goalies and starting icetime, that's nothing new but the CBA puts pressure on them since Schneider can become a UFA much sooner than he would have 10 years ago. The Oilers ended up having to deal away Andy Moog rather than keep the Fuhr-Moog tandem going, that's one example from the past.

The Leafs dont have an established starter in net, that's a problem. Of course neither does Detroit or Chicago for that matter and they've gotten by, continued to make the playoffs at least.
The Hawks and Wings have much better skaters than the Leafs. If Toronto had Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Seabrook and Keith, they wouldn't be too hard pressed to pay high value for Luongo.

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06-28-2012, 11:05 AM
  #991
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PC - ready for the next one?

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06-28-2012, 11:06 AM
  #992
racerjoe
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
You get a full year to negotiate before he becomes a free agent and like I said you keep the offer low so the compensation isnt that bad. Teams have given up much worse than a couple picks for guys who dont work out or who flee as free agents.
If it is low compensation the Canucks match... There would be no hesitation. Then Lui goes anywhere else.

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06-28-2012, 11:06 AM
  #993
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PC - ready for the next one?
Locked and loaded.

Will post now.

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06-28-2012, 11:07 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Sounds about right. The Canucks have a dispute with goalies and starting icetime, that's nothing new but the CBA puts pressure on them since Schneider can become a UFA much sooner than he would have 10 years ago. The Oilers ended up having to deal away Andy Moog rather than keep the Fuhr-Moog tandem going, that's one example from the past.

The Leafs dont have an established starter in net, that's a problem. Of course neither does Detroit or Chicago for that matter and they've gotten by, continued to make the playoffs at least.
Probably not a good idea to use Chicago and Detroit as examples.

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06-28-2012, 11:07 AM
  #995
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Quote:
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Locked and loaded.

Will post now.
Sounds good. Let's move it on over.

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06-28-2012, 11:07 AM
  #996
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PC is putting the new thread up - we are approaching the limit. Locked and moved on to #17!

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