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Old
06-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #26
joshjull
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I'm hoping for a Spacek-esque bounce back year from Ville.

Spacek was brutal in his first season then bounced back with two strong seasons after that.

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06-28-2012, 11:03 AM
  #27
Rob Paxon
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I really feel like people are going to be pretty happy with the season(+playoffs ) Leino puts together next season. I don't think it will live up to the contract, but I don't think anyone ever really thought he would. I will be extremely upset and very surprised if he doesn't get 40 points. I think Ruff will find a player that he works with.

This is contingent on him not being 3rd line center if the 3rd line is being used like the Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta line that he ended up filling in for after the trade deadline.

I'd strongly consider Leino at LW and moving Vanek to RW, though I prefer Vanek play RW when it can be helped. Leino-Hodgson-Vanek gives him two guys with the hockey smarts and the shots that I think he could really excel with. The line would be weak defensively and, well, quite slow, but if it becomes the line getting all the offensive zone starts it has serious puck possession and goal scoring potential. This isn't my ideal line-up scenario, just an idea.

The Leino-Ennis-Stafford line suggested earlier is also very intriguing. It's a line we basically recommended last offseason (with Leino at center and Ennis at wing) as being closest to the Leino-Briere-Hartnell set-up that worked so well. It would not be very good defensively but it would have good speed, draw easy competition, and get a fair number of offensive zone starts.

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06-28-2012, 11:16 AM
  #28
Mike203
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This is Leino's last year to prove himself before he get traded or buried in the AHL/Europe.

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06-28-2012, 11:20 AM
  #29
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He worked well with Briere right? and Ennis is our Briere right? So why not put him on a line with Ennis and Stafford. Leino-Ennis-Stafford. Then put Foligno with Vanek and Hodgson.

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06-28-2012, 11:23 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffswords View Post
He worked well with Briere right? and Ennis is our Briere right? So why not put him on a line with Ennis and Stafford. Leino-Ennis-Stafford. Then put Foligno with Vanek and Hodgson.
Foligno's not ready to play a top line role with Vanek and Hodgson, nor should he be expected to. You'd have to put Pominville there and Foligno down on the third or fourth line, which I wouldn't be opposed to.

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06-28-2012, 11:27 AM
  #31
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I think I've decided I want Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville to be our two-way line. They can play a ton of minutes, including significant time in their own end and against other teams top-lines. Vanek and Pominville will probably see reduced point totals as a result, but it is what it is. Then let Leino, an acquired RW, and Roy or a new center play offense. Other option would be to bring in a defensive minded guy to play with Hodgson and Pominville, and play Vanek with Leino.

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06-28-2012, 11:37 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffswords View Post
He worked well with Briere right? and Ennis is our Briere right? So why not put him on a line with Ennis and Stafford. Leino-Ennis-Stafford. Then put Foligno with Vanek and Hodgson.
He was best as an offensive player, Ruff is trying to make him a defensive player.

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06-28-2012, 11:45 AM
  #33
Layne Staley
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Send his ass to Rochester and use the cap space to sign Parise. Leino is only going to hold this team back.

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06-28-2012, 11:50 AM
  #34
joshjull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
I really feel like people are going to be pretty happy with the season(+playoffs ) Leino puts together next season. I don't think it will live up to the contract, but I don't think anyone ever really thought he would. I will be extremely upset and very surprised if he doesn't get 40 points. I think Ruff will find a player that he works with.

This is contingent on him not being 3rd line center if the 3rd line is being used like the Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta line that he ended up filling in for after the trade deadline.

I'd strongly consider Leino at LW and moving Vanek to RW, though I prefer Vanek play RW when it can be helped. Leino-Hodgson-Vanek gives him two guys with the hockey smarts and the shots that I think he could really excel with. The line would be weak defensively and, well, quite slow, but if it becomes the line getting all the offensive zone starts it has serious puck possession and goal scoring potential. This isn't my ideal line-up scenario, just an idea.

The Leino-Ennis-Stafford line suggested earlier is also very intriguing. It's a line we basically recommended last offseason (with Leino at center and Ennis at wing) as being closest to the Leino-Briere-Hartnell set-up that worked so well. It would not be very good defensively but it would have good speed, draw easy competition, and get a fair number of offensive zone starts.
Ville has said he prefers RW. So you could leave Vanek on LW and put Leino on RW.

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06-28-2012, 12:09 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Ville has said he prefers RW. So you could leave Vanek on LW and put Leino on RW.
Works for me


Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Send his ass to Rochester and use the cap space to sign Parise. Leino is only going to hold this team back.
This is a ridiculous thing to ask/expect of ownership. And adding another bad contract for a winger on top of that is probably not the best solution.

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06-28-2012, 12:20 PM
  #36
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I think he could be a dominant offensive threat... In rochester

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06-28-2012, 12:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Foligno's not ready to play a top line role with Vanek and Hodgson, nor should he be expected to. You'd have to put Pominville there and Foligno down on the third or fourth line, which I wouldn't be opposed to.
Yet its okay for tropp to play there?

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06-28-2012, 12:22 PM
  #38
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Yet its okay for tropp to play there?
No, it isn't.

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06-28-2012, 12:43 PM
  #39
Layne Staley
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post

This is a ridiculous thing to ask/expect of ownership. And adding another bad contract for a winger on top of that is probably not the best solution.
Theres a big difference.

Leino - bad contract and he is a mediocre player.
Parise - will probably be overpaid but he is an elite winger.

What hurts more, paying 4.5 mil a year for a garbage 25 point player or paying ~7.5 a year for a 75+ point winger? Adding Zach Parise to this team makes it a lot better regardless of his cap hit. Leino is just garbage at 4.5 a year, I cannot fathom that we have him for 5 more years

I remember trying to defend him when he was signed on the main boards but they were all right about him, he is garbage and has no motivation anymore, why should he when he is guaranteed 4.5 a year for 5 more years? I have never seen a bum like him fall down or hold one Hand on the stick as much as him.... Hopefully on 7/1, Regier corrects this mistake by adding Parise or Semin.

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06-28-2012, 12:52 PM
  #40
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First off people need to stop pegging Foligno into the second line. It definitely won't last

Leino will have a better season this year for sure. Will he score enough points to truely justify his contract, probably not. But he'll surely have more than 8 goals and 25 points.

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06-28-2012, 12:53 PM
  #41
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Theres a big difference.

Leino - bad contract and he is a mediocre player.
Parise - will probably be overpaid but he is an elite winger.

What hurts more, paying 4.5 mil a year for a garbage 25 point player or paying ~7.5 a year for a 75+ point winger? Adding Zach Parise to this team makes it a lot better regardless of his cap hit. Leino is just garbage at 4.5 a year, I cannot fathom that we have him for 5 more years

I remember trying to defend him when he was signed on the main boards but they were all right about him, he is garbage and has no motivation anymore, why should he when he is guaranteed 4.5 a year for 5 more years? I have never seen a bum like him fall down or hold one Hand on the stick as much as him.... Hopefully on 7/1, Regier corrects this mistake by adding Parise or Semin.
This isn't an "either/or" situation. We would have Leino, buried in the minors for YEARS, and then Parise's contract on top of that. All that overpaid on wingers, one of whom wouldn't even be playing for the team. There's no way this happens this year.

Also, I don't think the money has anything to do with Leino's effort or struggles. He doesn't look like he's trying any less than in all the games I've seen of him before Buffalo. He's a very unorthodox player and he's prone to making and missing plays in a way different from the typical guy. Part of that is his rather unique skating style and body positioning, and another major part is his very short stick.

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06-28-2012, 01:18 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mike203 View Post
This is Leino's last year to prove himself before he get traded or buried in the AHL/Europe.
Not to going happen. He would be untradable if he sucks again, and bury him in the AHL/Europe isn't going to happen either. His contract makes him a Sabre for at least a few years-through the good and bad.

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06-28-2012, 01:41 PM
  #43
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He's shown he can be a solid complimentary scoring winger who can play a puck control game along the wall and low in the offensive zone (similar in regards to prime Hecht). He's not particularly fast, nor physical seems at best with the puck on his stick. Could he mesh with Vanek and Hodgson to be the playmaker to their shooters? It's possible, but that line would be a bit plodding. Would he work with Ennis-Stafford? Eh, it seems they are at their best counter-punching off the rush with the puck on Ennis' stick. Roy (if still around)-Pominville? Seems like an option, although he's not going to be the best defensive player on the line.... or the second best even.

I wonder if the guy has trade value after the Sabres pay his second piece of signing bonus on the first, particularly to a budget team. He seems like a part that doesn't fit now and one who may make the GM and coach uncomfortable.

And if they're not going to trade him, is he going to get any PP ice time? Will he embrace playing better positional defense -- he seems to have made strides, especially when he was centering Kassian for a time around Christmas -- and up his 2-way game? Will he be prepetually snakebitten like he was last year?

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06-28-2012, 01:46 PM
  #44
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I wonder if the guy has trade value after the Sabres pay his second piece of signing bonus on the first, particularly to a budget team. He seems like a part that doesn't fit now and one who may make the GM and coach uncomfortable.
Doesn't the cap hit stay the same, regardless?

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06-28-2012, 01:47 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Slapshot85 View Post
Doesn't the cap hit stay the same, regardless?
That's the point. His cap hit is $4.5M but his actual salary is a lot less. Edit -- $2M in real dollars this year, then two years at $4M and then two years at $3.5M. After July 1st, $11M of his entire contract has been paid.


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06-28-2012, 01:51 PM
  #46
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I've been watching some of our games during our playoff run that I DVR'd and in this game vs. Washington Leino's looking beastly with the puck along the wall and has some nice chemistry with Pominville. It just seems that line would click so much better with a big center instead of Roy, perhaps someone 6'3 200 lbs named Mikhail.

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06-28-2012, 02:02 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
That's the point. His cap hit is $4.5M but his actual salary is a lot less. Edit -- $2M in real dollars this year, then two years at $4M and then two years at $3.5M. After July 1st, $11M of his entire contract has been paid.
Why would a team want a long-term cap hit at $4.5 million/year for a long-term (contract) player who hasn't performed near his paid value?

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06-28-2012, 02:12 PM
  #48
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Why would a team want a long-term cap hit at $4.5 million/year for a long-term (contract) player who hasn't performed near his paid value?
Salary floor, big cap hit, smaller salary

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06-28-2012, 02:29 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Salary floor, big cap hit, smaller salary
This. His cap hit is higher than his money owed annually after July 1st. It's not that long ago Buffalo was a budget team, looking for higher cap hits but lower salaries...

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06-28-2012, 02:49 PM
  #50
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The one thing I like about Leino is he's a competitor. He plays good in big games. His offense left a lot to be desired, though. I can see him being on a shutdown line. I think he'll bounce back this year. The whole team was off last year. Hopefully that doesn't happen again.

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