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And then I knew you didn't know what you were talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Sauce
I want to thank you, truly and sincerely, because in a thread littered with Flames bashing, you found a way to make the best joke I've read all day.
What contracts are worse? Gomez has a ridiculous cap hit, but he's signed for just 2 more years, and the real money isn't as bad ($5.5 mil and $4.5 mil). Same goes for Komisarek (2 years left, $3.5 mil in real money per year). Marc Savard's contract would be terrible, but he's not coming back, he's permanently on LTIR and covered by insurance, so it's basically non-existent. Wisniewski's contract is almost identical to Wideman's (both have 5 years left, Wideman at a $5.25 mil cap hit, Wisniewski at $5.5), but I think Wisniewski is a very significantly better player, provides similar offence with better defence and much better physicality/toughness.
I can't think of a single player who is as bad as Wideman, signed for as long for that high of a cap hit. Sounds like he's been given a full NMC too, if that's true then it gets way worse. I honestly think his contract is the 2nd worst in the league, after DiPietro. Obviously a lot of this is based on my assessment of his on-ice impact, since I think his net impact is to make most teams a bit worse, not better, as I do not think his offense balances out his horrendous defence and constant mistakes.
What contracts are worse? Gomez has a ridiculous cap hit, but he's signed for just 2 more years, and the real money isn't as bad ($5.5 mil and $4.5 mil). Same goes for Komisarek (2 years left, $3.5 mil in real money per year). Marc Savard's contract would be terrible, but he's not coming back, he's permanently on LTIR and covered by insurance, so it's basically non-existent. Wisniewski's contract is almost identical to Wideman's (both have 5 years left, Wideman at a $5.25 mil cap hit, Wisniewski at $5.5), but I think Wisniewski is a very significantly better player, provides similar offence with better defence and much better physicality/toughness.
I can't think of a single player who is as bad as Wideman, signed for as long for that high of a cap hit. Sounds like he's been given a full NMC too, if that's true then it gets way worse. I honestly think his contract is the 2nd worst in the league, after DiPietro. Obviously a lot of this is based on my assessment of his on-ice impact, since I think his net impact is to make most teams a bit worse, not better, as I do not think his offense balances out his horrendous defence and constant mistakes.
****, even though he had a good year this year, I think I'd take this deal over Brian Campbell's.
****, even though he had a good year this year, I think I'd take this deal over Brian Campbell's.
Redden is buried in the minors (no NMC), so while he costs the Rangers money, he doesn't hurt the team cap-wise. Also, 2 years left at $5 mil per year in real money. Certainly a terrible contract, but I don't think the Rangers would trade Redden for Wideman (on their respective contracts, with Wideman keeping his NMC) if given the chance.
As for Campbell, his contract is way better than Wideman's. Campbell is an excellent dman, a pretty solid #1 who is very good offensively, an elite skater and puck mover, and good in his own end. He's signed for 4 more years, at a cap hit $1.9 mil higher than Wideman, without a NMC (he just has a limited NTC). He has a huge positive impact on the game, Wideman really does not, that's easily worth the $1.9 mil cap hit difference, especially when it's a shorter contract with much more flexibility (limited NTC vs. full NMC).
I am assuming that Wideman has a full NMC, has that been confirmed by a legit source, or is it still speculative? If he doesn't have a full NMC, then that improves his contract significantly.
Redden is buried in the minors (no NMC), so while he costs the Rangers money, he doesn't hurt the team cap-wise. Also, 2 years left at $5 mil per year in real money. Certainly a terrible contract, but I don't think the Rangers would trade Redden for Wideman (on their respective contracts, with Wideman keeping his NMC) if given the chance.
I am assuming that Wideman has a full NMC, has that been confirmed by a legit source, or is it still speculative? If he doesn't have a full NMC, then that improves his contract significantly.
Who would you rather have on day one of their respective contracts, Redden or Wideman?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
So we're already assuming that Wideman is going to pull a Redden?
Alrighty then, HF.
I'm not. I think Wideman will be overpriced but still good/decent, very much like JayBo, for at least the first 3 years of the deal.
He just said he couldn't think of a worse player on a worse contract, and I could.
Who would you rather have on day one of their respective contracts, Redden or Wideman?
I'm not. I think Wideman will be overpriced but still good/decent, very much like JayBo, for at least the first 3 years of the deal.
He just said he couldn't think of a worse player on a worse contract, and I could.
I'm not talking about contracts when they were signed, I'm talking about contracts as they currently are. What I'm basically saying is, if I could have a veto on adding any player to me team (with their contract as it currently stands), my #1 veto would be DiPietro, and my #2 veto would be Wideman.
My exact words were:
I can't think of a single player who is as bad as Wideman, signed for as long for that high of a cap hit
I can't think of a player who is signed for 5+ more years at a cap hit of $5.25+ mil per year who is as bad as Wideman (or worse). DiPietro qualifies in terms of being a worse player signed for longer, but his cap hit is lower than Wideman's.
I'll leave it at that, it's all opinion at this point, but I honestly feel that a large number of Calgary fans will feel the same way before the end of Wideman's first season.
****, even though he had a good year this year, I think I'd take this deal over Brian Campbell's.
Dont' forget the vomit-inducing contracts of Mattias Ohlund, Christian Erhoff, James Wisnewski, Ed Jovanovski, Mike Komisarek, Dion Phaneuf (by Calgary, no less), Steve Montador, Johnny Oduya, Paul Martin, Keith Ballard, Jeff Schultz, Mike Green (now expired)... and that's just defensemen. There's tons of just-as-crappy ass contracts out there.
Dont' forget the vomit-inducing contracts of Mattias Ohlund, Christian Erhoff, James Wisnewski, Ed Jovanovski, Mike Komisarek, Dion Phaneuf (by Calgary, no less), Steve Montador, Johnny Oduya, Paul Martin, Keith Ballard, Jeff Schultz, Mike Green (now expired)... and that's just defensemen. There's tons of just-as-crappy ass contracts out there.
If making the same money, I take every single dman on that list that isn't named Komisarek over Wideman
Dont' forget the vomit-inducing contracts of Mattias Ohlund, Christian Erhoff, James Wisnewski, Ed Jovanovski, Mike Komisarek, Dion Phaneuf (by Calgary, no less), Steve Montador, Johnny Oduya, Paul Martin, Keith Ballard, Jeff Schultz, Mike Green (now expired)... and that's just defensemen. There's tons of just-as-crappy ass contracts out there.
mike green was a great contract, he just ran into injuries
If making the same money, I take every single dman on that list that isn't named Komisarek over Wideman
Wideman is better than Schultz, with the exception of PKing. Though Wideman isn't as bad at killing penalties as one might suspect. He keeps his game simpler there and doesn't end up with as many stupid decisions or poor reads.
Cool story. You'd take Erhoff on a 10-year deal? Sure thing, chief.
What happens if Wideman plays to the worth his contract? Are you going to come back, be a man, and eat a full plate of crow for everyone to see?
I absolutely will make a topic on the main NHL saying I was wrong if Wideman magically transforms his game into a defensively sound player who doesnt turn the puck over constantly and is loved by Calgary fans.
I absolutely will make a topic on the main NHL saying I was wrong if Wideman magically transforms his game into a defensively sound player who doesnt turn the puck over constantly and is loved by Calgary fans.
He doesn't have to transform his game, he just has to be worth the value of his contract. What if he just elevates his offensive game and put up 60+ points? That's completely worth his contract then. Perhaps he does that. He doesn't need to become a defensive dynamo is order to justify the value. I'd even wager to say that he simply needs to maintain his current level of play, since that is what he's proven he can do and has gotten paid for his performance as a UFA accordingly.
Anything above his current rate of production makes him more worth his value.
I absolutely will make a topic on the main NHL saying I was wrong if Wideman magically transforms his game into a defensively sound player
'Cept that's not what the Flames were looking for when they traded for and signed him. If his offensive production disappears, then they've got a problem.
Dont' forget the vomit-inducing contracts of Mattias Ohlund, Christian Erhoff, James Wisnewski, Ed Jovanovski, Mike Komisarek, Dion Phaneuf (by Calgary, no less), Steve Montador, Johnny Oduya, Paul Martin, Keith Ballard, Jeff Schultz, Mike Green (now expired)... and that's just defensemen. There's tons of just-as-crappy ass contracts out there.
None of those contracts close to as bad as Wideman's. Plus: Green, Phaneuf, Jovanovski,and Oduya's contracts really aren't that bad. What makes the Wideman signing especially bad is the term, and what you are getting for the cap hit.
Cool story. You'd take Erhoff on a 10-year deal? Sure thing, chief.
What happens if Wideman plays to the worth his contract? Are you going to come back, be a man, and eat a full plate of crow for everyone to see?
Ehrhoff is much better than Wideman, and has a cap hit of $4 mil. Also, while he has 9 years left on his deal, the last 3 years are at $1 mil each in real money, and he has a limited NTC/NMC, which should allow him to be moved pretty easily at the end of that deal if Buffalo need to free up cap space. He's essentially got 6 years left, at a cap hit of $4 mil, I definitely take his remaining contract over Wideman's (again, assuming Wideman does have a full NMC, as a number of sites have reported).
None of those contracts close to as bad as Wideman's. Plus: Green, Phaneuf, Jovanovski,and Oduya's contracts really aren't that bad. What makes the Wideman signing especially bad is the term, and what you are getting for the cap hit.
Yeah, they are... When Wideman's contract finishes, Erhoff will still have 4 years left on his. Ohlund is a shell of his former self, is six years older and and makes even more per year than Wideman does.
This contract is hardly terrible. It's not ideal that's for sure... but if he puts up the points, that's what he's being paid to do.
Plus, the season hasn't even started yet - maybe you should wait more than one day after the contract is signed before you try to critically analyze how the contract turned out.
Yeah, they are... When Wideman's contract finishes, Erhoff will still have 4 years left on his. Ohlund is a shell of his former self, is six years older and and makes even more per year than Wideman does.
This contract is hardly terrible. It's not ideal that's for sure... but if he puts up the points, that's what he's being paid to do.
Plus, the season hasn't even started yet - maybe you should wait more than one day after the contract is signed before you try to critically analyze how the contract turned out.
I think Wideman has had plenty of chances to prove himself, yet Bruins/Panthers/Capitals fans all hate him...
Ehrhoff is much better than Wideman, and has a cap hit of $4 mil. Also, while he has 9 years left on his deal, the last 3 years are at $1 mil each in real money, and he has a limited NTC/NMC, which should allow him to be moved pretty easily at the end of that deal if Buffalo need to free up cap space. He's essentially got 6 years left, at a cap hit of $4 mil, I definitely take his remaining contract over Wideman's (again, assuming Wideman does have a full NMC, as a number of sites have reported).
Agree to disagree, then. Wideman at 5 years is much better than Erhoff at 9, in my opinion.
