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Could Plekanec be the one on the way out ?

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Old
06-28-2012, 04:52 PM
  #126
habscup
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Why would you wanna trade one of the best penalty killers in the league, with strong defensive game and good offensive game. On top of that he never takes nights off and has been a hab his whole career and is home grown. Why the **** would you trade him if you are sober?

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06-28-2012, 04:54 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Why would you wanna trade one of the best penalty killers in the league, with strong defensive game and good offensive game. On top of that he never takes nights off and has been a hab his whole career and is home grown. Why the **** would you trade him if you are sober?
Cause we have to run the team into the ground so MacKinnon saves the franchise.

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06-28-2012, 04:57 PM
  #128
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This thread is one year too early. We don't have to make this decision now, and we shouldn't. IMHO it depends of Eller more than anyone else.

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06-28-2012, 05:00 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Why would you wanna trade one of the best penalty killers in the league, with strong defensive game and good offensive game. On top of that he never takes nights off and has been a hab his whole career and is home grown. Why the **** would you trade him if you are sober?
Because he has high trade value and this team isn't winning anytime soon.

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Old
06-28-2012, 05:00 PM
  #130
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I can't think of many well priced, two-way sixty point centres that I would move Plekanec for. He's underratedd on this website because he's a Hab. Trading him would be a lateral move, unless the team wanted to shake up the culture a bit. Looking at other comparable centres around the league, one of the few I'd move him for would be a guy like Stephen Weiss. But FLA has no reason to make the trade.

Pleks is a Hab unless Bergevin gets an offer he can't refuse. At least until next season, when we have a better idea of Eller's direction and Galchenyuk's progression.

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06-28-2012, 05:03 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Because he has high trade value and this team isn't winning anytime soon.
So because the team isn't winning anytime soon let's make it even worse so that it will not win for a longer time. Great logic

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06-28-2012, 05:09 PM
  #132
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Because he has high trade value and this team isn't winning anytime soon.
So does Price? Let's trade everybody and look like the Oilers or Islanders.

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06-28-2012, 05:19 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
So because the team isn't winning anytime soon let's make it even worse so that it will not win for a longer time. Great logic
It's a strategic move, a bishop-f7 sacrifice if you will. On top of the younger assets that Plekanec would yield us, it would have the probable effect of increasing the value of our first two picks. If it came out that doing this gave us Nichushkin, Etem, a 1st, on top of improving one of our 3 2nd rounders, I would do it in a second. This isn't about possibly extending the wait for contention a little bit. That doesn't matter at all. Given the idea that we will get there, what matters is being as good as possible when we do for as long as possible.

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06-28-2012, 05:31 PM
  #134
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Pleks, Bourque (replaces 20ish goals on the LW), 2013 1st for Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan

Throw in Gallagher as well if that's what it takes to get it done.

I could live with another year of Gomez if his wingers are Kane/Ryan and Gionta. I don't see how that wouldn't at least be a decent second line.

The year after bring in Galchenyuk at #2, get rid of Gomez while his value is higher (that being from extremely negative to only slightly negative at a 4.5 mil salary for a year, coming off a 40+ point season) and bump down Gio to 3rd line. Acquire a good #2 RW through FA/Trade (maybe Chris Stewart if he falls out of favor with STL or a short term contract to a vet like Jagr/Whitney) or see how Collberg/Leblanc look in that position come training camp. Maybe grab a guy like Steve Ott for 3rd line LW. Dallas had a ton of PP trouble and trading Ribs only makes it worse so Kaberle + 2nd/3rd could get it done.

Max-DD-Cole
Kane/Ryan-Galchenyuk-FA1/Trade/Collberg/Leblanc
FA2/Trade-Eller-Gio
Moen/FA3-White/Leblanc-White/FA4

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06-28-2012, 05:39 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
This thread is one year too early. We don't have to make this decision now, and we shouldn't. IMHO it depends of Eller more than anyone else.
If the Habs have to wait for Eller, they are in trouble. I mean Eller is still a relatively young guy. If you want to get better now, act now, get a replacement who is ready.

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06-28-2012, 05:43 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So does Price? Let's trade everybody and look like the Oilers or Islanders.
We're not winning this year. However, this team has a good young core, maybe even a young core, and thus we could make the playoffs in the 2013-2014 season and I think we can be perennial contenders in the 2015-2020 period -- which is after Plekanec's prime years.

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06-28-2012, 05:48 PM
  #137
NotProkofievian
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If the Habs have to wait for Eller, they are in trouble. I mean Eller is still a relatively young guy. If you want to get better now, act now, get a replacement who is ready.
Wanting to get better now is going to lead us to more of the same. I don't want to be better now, I want to be the best in the future.

The only way to do that is to grow young assets to a level that would be unattainable at their best.

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06-28-2012, 05:49 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
We're not winning this year. However, this team has a good young core, maybe even a young core, and thus we could make the playoffs in the 2013-2014 season and I think we can be perennial contenders in the 2015-2020 period -- which is after Plekanec's prime years.
If he keeps himself in shape he can be in his prime or close till 2020.

Bottom line, trading Plekanec just to trade him would be massively dumb.

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06-28-2012, 05:52 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If he keeps himself in shape he can be in his prime or close till 2020.

Bottom line, trading Plekanec just to trade him would be massively dumb.
He'll be in his prime until the age of 38? He'll be slowing down in 3-4 years, IMO. His peak value will probably be next year or possibly the year after.

No one is saying trade Plekanec just to trade him. Trade Plekanec as he likely doesn't have a major role on a future contender team given how far away it is currently, in order to maximize the potential of that future contender.

...it's not a dumb idea.

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06-28-2012, 05:56 PM
  #140
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Nobody's proposing we trade Plekanec just to trade him.

The idea is that we have a surplus of offensive centers, like Philadelphia did when they traded Jeff Carter for Jacub Voracek and Sean Couturier.

It's not complicated: we should trade Plekanec if his trade value exceeds the marginal value he contributes to the Habs long-term.

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06-28-2012, 06:00 PM
  #141
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Well, I'm all for trading him while he has still a pretty good value.

However... don't trade him for the sake of trading him.

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06-28-2012, 06:11 PM
  #142
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Trading Plekanec would be a horrible mistake.

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06-28-2012, 06:16 PM
  #143
Kimota
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Trading Plekanec would be a horrible mistake.
He's not Sidney Crosby.

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06-28-2012, 06:16 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
Pleks, Bourque (replaces 20ish goals on the LW), 2013 1st for Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan

Throw in Gallagher as well if that's what it takes to get it done.

Max-DD-Cole
Kane/Ryan-Galchenyuk-FA1/Trade/Collberg/Leblanc
FA2/Trade-Eller-Gio
Moen/FA3-White/Leblanc-White/FA4
Way overpayment !

You want to trade a proven 20 goal scorer (Plekanec), a guy who scored more than 20 goals in the last three season when he was in Calgary (Bourque) and a 2013 first round pick which would be very deep for a player who's best season was 57 points (Kane) or a player who also only manage 57 points last season (Ryan), and you even want to throw gallagher in the deal (a guy who will most likely become a 1st or 2 liner)

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06-28-2012, 06:16 PM
  #145
Habitant le colon
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we can put one of dd galcheniuk on the wing to improve our team and keep Plekanec and Eller ... even gomez if he does bunce back with therrien.

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Old
06-28-2012, 06:21 PM
  #146
Kimota
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Wanting to get better now is going to lead us to more of the same. I don't want to be better now, I want to be the best in the future.

The only way to do that is to grow young assets to a level that would be unattainable at their best.
That makes no sense. You prefer to be better in the futur than now? What's the difference?

I don't think there should one model in particular to build a good team. You can upgrade now, why wait?

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06-28-2012, 06:58 PM
  #147
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Yeah i know eh ? Imagine a hockey forum discussing hockey.

My guess is he will be traded next week. We will see i guess.

And Gomez is going nowhere. He will be slated in as the Habs 2/3 center...

Deharnais
Gomez/Eller
Eller/Gomez
UFA

your right, they both we're just aweful last season..

Plecks only got 17 goals and 52 pts, that *******, trade him! ... but we have to keep Gomez cause there is no way we can live with out Gomez's 11 pts .. those 2 goals of his are what kept us from being very last in the league

ok in all seriousness .. the only way Gomez is still with the Canadiens this season is if Molson wont pony up the cash to bury him or buy him out.. no team in this league wants him, and rightfully so, so we can't trade him.. but let all hope there is an 1 time free buy out in the new CBA or Molson is as comitted as he says he is and just burys him.. the Bulldogs need a good vet leader

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06-28-2012, 07:34 PM
  #148
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According to some people, our best player is always the next one. We love idealizing a player's future, but we utterly fail to appreciate what we have in the present.

- Plekanec is the most consistent, productive center we have.

- Lars Eller may possibly, hopefully, one day, become a 50-point player, which describes Plekanec in a BAD year!

- Plekanec's 29. In four years, he'll be 33, the same age as Cole is now.

- Plekanec gets the toughest assignments and is matched against the toughest opponents.

- Remember the many breakaways he got stealing the puck on the PK. Few players are as smart and quick as Plek.

- He has an amazing work ethic and is a great role model.

- Ask yourself who you'd expect in return for our 3rd pick. Now ask yourself if you seriously think another team would give up their top pick for Plekanec. A player of his calibre carries value, but not the kind of top-tier value the trade-lovers are hoping for. We'd get a good player in return, but not a top-5 pick, and then we'd be left with a massive hole where a 50-70 point two-way center used to be.

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06-28-2012, 07:39 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
He'll be in his prime until the age of 38? He'll be slowing down in 3-4 years, IMO. His peak value will probably be next year or possibly the year after.

No one is saying trade Plekanec just to trade him. Trade Plekanec as he likely doesn't have a major role on a future contender team given how far away it is currently, in order to maximize the potential of that future contender.

...it's not a dumb idea.
Guys that keep themselves in shape are top players well into their 30's.

Right now he has a huge role on the team and nobody here to replace him so why even talk about it?

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06-28-2012, 07:47 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If he keeps himself in shape he can be in his prime or close till 2020.

Bottom line, trading Plekanec just to trade him would be massively dumb.
Well, sure, but that's a truism.

I think it really depends on the temperature of Gomez. If he is a useless piece of trash who will never ever be near a Habs team again, then dealing Plekanec is pretty much out of the question. But I, as a new GM with a new coach, would go into training camp with Gomez on the notional roster. If Therrien comes back and says, "I have no room for this bum. We will win more games with a golden retriever on the roster than him," then it's time to make decisions on how to ditch him. But I would certainly expect at least that my new coach would properly evaluate him instead of hoping that I would simply vaporize him. A coach is supposed to coach.

Also, I think it depends on where the Habs are this year, in Bergevin's mind. I don't see them as a contender. They could make the playoffs, but it wouldn't surprise me either, as the team stands right now, that they miss the playoffs again while the young core matures and the the next wave of prospects develop. If the Habs are a few years away, as I think, then you have to have a plan. Eller and Desharnais are still young and cheap and, in Eller's case, full of upside. Gomez has been terrible and is expensive, but only for another two years. Being Timmins' top ranked player in the entire 2012 draft, Galchenyuk has to figure in the projected lineup two years from now. So, if you can squeeze some on-ice value out of Gomez for at least this year, then he becomes a decent placeholder, given that he is immoveable in any event.

As I see it, there are two basic trade scenarios for Plekanec. One, before training camp, he's a centrepiece in a proposed deal for Kane or Ryan or or some other rare young core player. If it's a good deal, especially looking past the next season, then you make it, even if that means clouds of uncertainty going into this training camp but sunshine rays of promise beyond that.

Two, during training camp, Gomez shows sign of life, which presents a dilemma -- 4 good top 3 centres, none of whom are suited for 4th line duties. In that case, I think you have to explore how good the offers would be for the veteran centre with the best trade value. If every other GM is looking for a rip-off, then you let Therrien deal with the rather pleasant problem of having too many good centres. Injuries, whether on the Habs or a team with dreams of contention, will soon resolve that dilemma.

Bottom line, trading Plekanec just to trade him is a dumb idea, but I do see it as a potential move with a lot of benefit, unless we assume that Gomez is a simple zero and that the Habs have a strong chance of being any good this year. I wouldn't make either assumption, and so I would be exploring just how valuable Plekanec might be in a trade to get a piece that will make the Habs better for a while, even if it only all comes together in a few years.

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