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06-28-2012, 09:09 PM
  #26
Crazy_Ike
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That's great that we have a core that is mostly under contract and still young.

The problem is, its been tried. And it lost in the first round twice.

I'm sorry but you can't look at this core and say its a contender after that. You lose twice in the first round, you make changes, or you are deluded. Bowman seems to be deluded.

I am not someone who wants to make changes just to make changes. The fact is, the team as it was the last two years was not good enough. Try to run it again, and it will again not be good enough. We aren't the Sharks. The Sharks had success, just not quite enough to push over the hump. We're nowhere near that. We didn't even deserve to MAKE the playoffs two years ago, and last year certainly didn't change anything.

There is no "putting all chips on the table" going on here. What is being talked about is taking a risk to improve the team. Bowman appears to be playing it safe. Unfortunately that just means spinning our wheels in mediocrity some more.

I don't want to move Saad. I think he can be a core player and moving him would be counterproductive, since as an unproven prospect he would not command the necessary return to make up for it.

But we can't sit as we are. Those who fail to learn from history, yadda yadda.

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06-28-2012, 09:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by zytz View Post

I think the Sharks specific problem is that their core was built on players that were just a little too old. I think they're realizing that now and are in a weird semi-rebuild sort of phase where their young talent is beginning to take the reins from the like of Thornton and Marleau.
.
The Sharks core was young when they started there string of playoff failures

They are old now

Your statement makes no sense. Marleau , Thornton , etc were in mid 20's for most part when Sharks were winning division titles and putting up 100+ pts

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06-28-2012, 09:14 PM
  #28
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Pretty good overall, I'd say. They were in the playoffs and highly competitive every year for a good stretch; you can point at their lack of cup and say it's because the strategy is ineffective but you'd be wrong.

if you put all your chips on the table for one season you're just 1 or 2 key injuries away from instantly becoming a non-contender. If youre in contention every year the above still applies, but chances are low it happens every single year.

I think the Sharks specific problem is that their core was built on players that were just a little too old. I think they're realizing that now and are in a weird semi-rebuild sort of phase where their young talent is beginning to take the reins from the like of Thornton and Marleau.

The benefit we have is the majority of our core is under 30, and we have a glut of young guys in Rockford ready to start jumping in as guys like Hossa start to age, and Toews and Kane will continue doing what they do because in 5 years they'll both still be in their twenties, and will both be the offensive centerpieces as they are now. Transitioning aging players out should go much better for us because they aren't our centerpiece players or our captain.
It doesn't matter if the Hawks are afraid or too stupid to make the moves. The Sharks have made moves, trading Heatley and Setoguchi, signing Niemi and now Stuart. They are tying to add Nash or another scoring winger.

Seems every other contender is trying to improve their holes while the Hawks think their problems with magically disappear or fix themselves and they won't..

The upsetting thing is the Hawks are close, much closer then most teams but our management seems to be afraid to try and make the necessary moves to go from close to winning because if they mess up then they looks bad.

Again I would rather the Hawks really went out and tried to win and mad a bad move then where just good but not good enough over the next few years because Bowman was afraid to make the necessary moves.

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06-28-2012, 09:19 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
It doesn't matter if the Hawks are afraid or too stupid to make the moves. The Sharks have made moves, trading Heatley and Setoguchi, signing Niemi and now Stuart. They are tying to add Nash or another scoring winger.

Seems every other contender is trying to improve their holes while the Hawks think their problems with magically disappear or fix themselves and they won't..

The upsetting thing is the Hawks are close, much closer then most teams but our management seems to be afraid to try and make the necessary moves to go from close to winning because if they mess up then they looks bad.

Again I would rather the Hawks really went out and tried to win and mad a bad move then where just good but not good enough over the next few years because Bowman was afraid to make the necessary moves.
This couldn't be more correct.

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06-28-2012, 09:29 PM
  #30
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It's strange how people seem so positive we're going into next season with the exact same roster when it's not even July yet.

Let's discuss how much the roster has or hasn't changed in September.

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06-28-2012, 09:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
It's strange how people seem so positive we're going into next season with the exact same roster when it's not even July yet.

Let's discuss how much the roster has or hasn't changed in September.
Well lets see

We have dwindling UFA market , Horrid signing in Oduya that threw away cap space , No improvement in net , No trades , nothing

How do you expect us to feel?

We saw Kitch retained , Oduya re-signed , Bowman reaffirm his faith in Crawford and no effort apparantly being made to address our #2 C issue (Oh wait Q likes Kruger and Bowman likes Kane there )

Sorry but this offseason has been dismal for Hawks so far outside of the draft

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06-28-2012, 09:38 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well lets see

We have dwindling UFA market , Horrid signing in Oduya that threw away cap space , No improvement in net , No trades , nothing

How do you expect us to feel?

We saw Kitch retained , Oduya re-signed , Bowman reaffirm his faith in Crawford and no effort apparantly being made to address our #2 C issue (Oh wait Q likes Kruger and Bowman likes Kane there )

Sorry but this offseason has been dismal for Hawks so far outside of the draft
Don't forget we solidified our back-up goalie role by bring back Emery too.

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06-28-2012, 09:49 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well lets see

We have dwindling UFA market , Horrid signing in Oduya that threw away cap space , No improvement in net , No trades , nothing

How do you expect us to feel?

We saw Kitch retained , Oduya re-signed , Bowman reaffirm his faith in Crawford and no effort apparantly being made to address our #2 C issue (Oh wait Q likes Kruger and Bowman likes Kane there )

Sorry but this offseason has been dismal for Hawks so far outside of the draft
If our team is so ****ing awful, then why aren't we in last place every year?? If Bowman is such a ******* awful GM why isn't our team in last place??

Honestly every should just shut the **** up and be glad we are even considered contenders for the cup for the next 10 years. You all act like we're the Colombus blue jackets.

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06-28-2012, 09:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
If our team is so ****ing awful, then why aren't we in last place every year?? If Bowman is such a ******* awful GM why isn't our team in last place??

Honestly every should just shut the **** up and be glad we are even considered contenders for the cup for the next 10 years. You all act like we're the Colombus blue jackets.
Thankfully because of Columbus, we didn't finish in last place in our division.

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06-28-2012, 10:01 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
The Sharks failed. Losing in the second round a lot isn't anything worth bragging about.
Being one of the consistently best teams in the West post lockout and two WCF appearances is worth bragging about. Winning the Cup isn't supposed to be easy or guaranteed.

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06-28-2012, 10:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
If our team is so ****ing awful, then why aren't we in last place every year?? If Bowman is such a ******* awful GM why isn't our team in last place??

Honestly every should just shut the **** up and be glad we are even considered contenders for the cup for the next 10 years. You all act like we're the Colombus blue jackets.
So you are satisfied with first round exits then?

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06-28-2012, 10:05 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
If our team is so ****ing awful, then why aren't we in last place every year?? If Bowman is such a ******* awful GM why isn't our team in last place??

Honestly every should just shut the **** up and be glad we are even considered contenders for the cup for the next 10 years. You all act like we're the Colombus blue jackets.

Yes, let's just be happy with a team that isn't good enough to win but doesn't finish in last.

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06-28-2012, 10:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Yes, let's just be happy with a team that isn't good enough to win but doesn't finish in last.

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06-28-2012, 10:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
So you are satisfied with first round exits then?
Satisfied...no

Understandable...yes

Especially with the complete crapshoot this past playoffs were, I'm not about to say the core can't win, especially when it has won in the past. I think people get too caught up in the weaknesses and fail to look at the strengths. Any given year, with this core, we can make a deep run, it just needs to line up right. It hasn't. This year we didn't have the goaltending along with Toews not being himself. The previous season we had too much turn-over from the previous season + cup hangover.

Now, that doesn't mean you don't tweak things. We need goaltending upgrades (whether its a rebound year for Crawford or someone else brought in). We need a 2/3 center (if a #3, bump Bolland up to #2, I don't care which). Those things will make us better. We need some of the core to play like they are capable of, not the way they've played this past playoff series.

There are alot of things to like about the team, I wish this board was a little more balanced in terms of what's right with the team in respect to what's wrong with it. Its just tough to come on here to talk about the team and see endless b*ching and moaning about a team only 2 years removed from the cup. I honestly think its worse now than pre-2006 levels of complaining, maybe its just me.

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06-28-2012, 10:15 PM
  #40
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I'm reserving judgement until after free agency.

Crawford having a major bounce back year is really not that outlandish of an idea. Making moves sounds great in an NHL 12 sort of way but look at our available options...

After Suter, what top 4 dmen is available for free agency? Which teams are willing to give up top for dmen via any trade that doesn't neuter our prospect pool?

The same goes with goalies and centers.

Even with a bounce back year for Crawford, Kane, and Leddy our team probably isn't good enough to win the cup but I don't think we are one Suter/Bernier/Luongo/Doan etc...from winning it all either. Why trade Saad, McNeil, Stalberg, Hjalmarsson, etc... for pieces that doesn't guarantee us anything?

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06-28-2012, 10:17 PM
  #41
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I'm reserving judgement until after free agency.

Crawford having a major bounce back year is really not that outlandish of an idea. Making moves sounds great in an NHL 12 sort of way but look at our available options...

After Suter, what top 4 dmen is available for free agency? Which teams are willing to give up top for dmen via any trade that doesn't neuter our prospect pool?

The same goes with goalies and centers.

Even with a bounce back year for Crawford, Kane, and Leddy our team probably isn't good enough to win the cup but I don't think we are one Suter/Bernier/Luongo/Doan etc...from winning it all either. Why trade Saad, McNeil, Stalberg, Hjalmarsson, etc... for pieces that doesn't guarantee us anything?
really? Guys, we haven't fallen THAT far...

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06-28-2012, 10:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Central PA Hawk Fan View Post
Especially with the complete crapshoot this past playoffs were, I'm not about to say the core can't win, especially when it has won in the past.
If it HAD won in the past we would be patient with it. This is not the Cup winning core. This core has never won a playoff round.

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06-28-2012, 10:27 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
If it HAD won in the past we would be patient with it. This is not the Cup winning core. This core has never won a playoff round.
What core pieces have we lost?Campbell, Ladd, Versteeg and Byfuglien were all quality talents, but none of them were "core" guys.

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06-28-2012, 10:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
If it HAD won in the past we would be patient with it. This is not the Cup winning core. This core has never won a playoff round.
Sounds like you don't know what a 'core' is.

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06-28-2012, 10:48 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Central PA Hawk Fan View Post
really? Guys, we haven't fallen THAT far...
Currently this team has a very strong top six, one of the best 1st d-pairings in the NHL, and solid forward depth.

Currently this team lacks defensive depth, goaltending, center depth, and smart coaching; both special teams and defensive/offensive systems.

Our strengths are good enough to get us to to the playoffs but our weaknesses will hold us back every year. Even if Kane has a 90 point season and Crawford had an average one, if we can't get our special teams together and get back to a puck possession system, I expect at best a 2nd round exit for the 2013 season

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06-28-2012, 10:51 PM
  #46
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Who knows - maybe Stan will shock the hockey world and pull the trigger on a big deal or sign a big name free agent like Suter ... but odds are against anything bold and decisive.

So where does that leave the Hawks for the upcoming season? In my opinion, like others have posted, it leaves them caught in between going all in this year or planning to go all in 3 years from now. Getting caught in between is the worst situation because it leads to average - not good enough to win and not bad enough to start over.

On the other hand, there is some merit in the hope that some of the young players may be better this coming season and it's hard to fathom the special teams will be as bad next season as they were in 2011/12. Those two factors alone could make the difference in winning a playoff round or two. At least if progress is made it would be building toward being even better the following year. What can't happen is to be in the same spot a year from now with the same holes in the lineup and none of the prospects having gotten any meaningful NHL game experience.

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06-28-2012, 11:15 PM
  #47
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The Hawks are completely fine and all of the glaring holes in the roster can be filled from within!

In the meantime while we wait three or four years for that to actually be true, let's enjoy some more games like these and several more first-round exits as well.




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06-28-2012, 11:24 PM
  #48
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I'm giving stan the benefit of the doubt for one more season. make or break year IMO. If we fall in the first round/miss the playoffs this year its time for stan and the entire coaching staff to leave.

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06-28-2012, 11:45 PM
  #49
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Washington got a dang good center for Eakin and a 2nd.

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06-29-2012, 12:00 AM
  #50
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Remember last offseason when the Sharks made a bunch of bold moves after losing in the Western Conference finals. They acquired Brent Burns, Marty Havlat, and Michael Handzus. People on the main boards were commenting on the great job Wilson did and applauded his aggressiveness. 9 months later they barely make the playoffs and get knocked out 1st round. They also got TJ Galiardi at the deadline for a promising young player Jamie McGinn.. Oh yea he scored 8 goals and 5 assists in 17 games.

People also were saying how awesome the Flyers were for being so aggressive and going out and filling their huge goalie need with Bryzgalov(lmao at that abortion of a contract). The players they gave up ended up winning the Stanley Cup.

So being aggressive is nice and all... But it needs to be for the RIGHT deals. No point in satisfying the tards who want Kane traded, Keith gone, ect. No point in making a deal for the sake of it. There might be nothing good available. We haven't even hit free agency yet. Hopefully Stan is trying to improve the team and look for deals. If the team doesn't make improvements throughout the summer then I'll start to panic. For now im just excited for July 1st.

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