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Calgary Flames 2012 Prospect Rankings - #4

View Poll Results: Who is the Flames' number four prospect?
Bill Arnold 0 0%
Laurent Brossoit 1 1.79%
Paul Byron 2 3.57%
Michael Ferland 0 0%
John Gaudreau 21 37.50%
Markus Granlund 0 0%
Roman Horak 0 0%
Ryan Howse 0 0%
Mark Jankowski 10 17.86%
Greg Nemisz 0 0%
Patrick Sieloff 0 0%
Max Reinhart 22 39.29%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-28-2012, 10:39 PM
  #26
Noori
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Incredibly neck-in-neck. I think I might just go 4A and 4B.

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06-28-2012, 10:52 PM
  #27
Johnny Hoxville
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Went with Johnny, Janko will be next then Reinhart.

1) Sven
2) Brodie
3) Irving
4) Johnny
5) Janko
6) Reinhart
7) Granlund
8) Ferland
9) Horak
10) Byron

Thats actually a pretty dam sweet top 10 if you ask me.

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06-28-2012, 10:56 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Went with Johnny, Janko will be next then Reinhart.
How can you put Jankowski over Reinhart. I don't even know how J.G. is gettin put over Reinhart. Reinhart is a solid prospect, not high potential but his bust factor is really small compared to these other guys, most likely going to be a solid NHL'er

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06-28-2012, 10:57 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
How can you put Jankowski over Reinhart. I don't even know how J.G. is gettin put over Reinhart. Reinhart is a solid prospect, not high potential but his bust factor is really small compared to these other guys.
JG has way more skill.

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06-28-2012, 10:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
How can you put Jankowski over Reinhart. I don't even know how J.G. is gettin put over Reinhart. Reinhart is a solid prospect, not high potential but his bust factor is really small compared to these other guys, most likely going to be a solid NHL'er
Because of his upside. Janko could project to be a #1C, Reinhart projects to be a #3C with 2nd line potential. I like Reinhart alot, but thats the criteria I am personally going on.

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06-28-2012, 10:59 PM
  #31
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Because of his upside. Janko could project to be a #1C, Reinhart projects to be a #3C with 2nd line potential. I like Reinhart alot, but thats the criteria I am personally going on.
So you're doing your prospect ranking 100% based on potential? I think that's short sighted.

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06-28-2012, 11:00 PM
  #32
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JG has way more skill.
Quote:
Because of his upside. Janko could project to be a #1C, Reinhart projects to be a #3C with 2nd line potential. I like Reinhart alot, but thats the criteria I am personally going on.
I guess you guys are basing it more on potential and skill, but you have to put more into the potential actually being reached. I also think Reinhart is being overlooked as he went to the memorial cup the season before and this year the Ice were not so great.

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06-28-2012, 11:01 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
So you're doing your prospect ranking 100% based on potential? I think that's short sighted.
I think that is far sighted as short sighted would be choosing who is the best player now

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06-28-2012, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
I guess you guys are basing it more on potential and skill, but you have to put more into the potential actually being reached. I also think Reinhart is being overlooked as he went to the memorial cup the season before and this year the Ice were not so great.
I saw the Ice alot and really like Reinhart but JG doesn't seem like a guy with huge bust potential because he can back check play physical and isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas. He is almost the second most skilled prospect we have.

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06-28-2012, 11:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I saw the Ice alot and really like Reinhart but JG doesn't seem like a guy with huge bust potential because he can back check play physical and isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas. He is almost the second most skilled prospect we have.
I don't think that is a tough thing to accomplish , his size is a huge disadvantage. I am not going to comment on his physical style but looking at a guy like Byron who is as physical as he could possibly be, he is struggling to make the NHL fulltime and that guy can flat out fly.

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06-28-2012, 11:07 PM
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I don't think that is a tough thing to accomplish , his size is a huge disadvantage. I am not going to comment on his physical style but looking at a guy like Byron who is as physical as he could possibly be, he is struggling to make the NHL fulltime and that guy can flat out fly.
Byron may play the physical style of the game the same but JG has top hockey sense something Byron does not have.

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06-28-2012, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
So you're doing your prospect ranking 100% based on potential? I think that's short sighted.
I'm actually not, if you look at my top 3 I based it all off what those guys have shown at an NHL level, Sven being the most skilled and having the most potential so he goes #1. Similar cases for Brodie and Irving.

None of the other guys have played an NHL game, so I am going by overall skill, projection, and performance. While Janko still needs to prove himself in a better league, the fact that he possibly projects to be a #1C trumps the other categories IMO and when you factor in his skill set, well thats why I made my decision.

Look guys, I think its extremely close between him and Reinhart at that spot but I'd give a slight edge to Janko for the reasons I mentioned. But for sure Reinhart deserves alot more respect, but I think this is a credit to the prospect depth we are gaining in the organization.

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06-28-2012, 11:16 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I think that is far sighted as short sighted would be choosing who is the best player now
True,

Which would explain why I am picking prospect who posses both. So whats funny?

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06-28-2012, 11:49 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
True,

Which would explain why I am picking prospect who posses both. So whats funny?
Potential trumps being NHL ready in my books. These are a projection after all. Obviously the rankings can combine a bit of both, but for me personally I would take the skill and size of Jankowski over Reinhart.

This is my top 15.

1. Sven Baertschi
2. T.J Brodie
3. Leland Irving
4. Mark Jankowski
5. John Gaudreau
6. Max Reinhart
7. Greg Nemisz (Appears I am the only one who still believes in him..)
8. Laurent Brossoit
9. Roman Horak
10. Michael Ferland
11. Markus Granlund
12. Bill Arnold
13. Lance Bouma
14. Patrick Sieloff
15. John Ramage / Tyler Wotherspoon (Can't decide who I like better)

I would be perfectly ok with swapping Jankowski with Gaudreau also.

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06-28-2012, 11:55 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Potential trumps being NHL ready in my books. These are a projection after all. Obviously the rankings can combine a bit of both, but for me personally I would take the skill and size of Jankowski over Reinhart.

This is my top 15.

1. Sven Baertschi
2. T.J Brodie
3. Leland Irving
4. Mark Jankowski
5. John Gaudreau
6. Max Reinhart
7. Greg Nemisz (Appears I am the only one who still believes in him..)
8. Laurent Brossoit
9. Roman Horak
10. Michael Ferland
11. Markus Granlund
12. Bill Arnold
13. Lance Bouma
14. Patrick Sieloff
15. John Ramage / Tyler Wotherspoon (Can't decide who I like better)

I would be perfectly ok with swapping Jankowski with Gaudreau also.
You have a point, I would actually alter my list slightly and put him at 10 and move Byron down to 11. I have Granlund rated quite a bit higher than you because of his skill set. He is still largely an unknown, but he has top 6 potential so thats why I have him ranked higher.

And Brossoit is really good, but his value rapidly shot up after this post season. I have him ranked lower because I need to see what he can do in a professional league. Goaltenders take much longer to develop, I am still largely unsure about him but hopefully optimistic.

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06-28-2012, 11:58 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Because of his upside. Janko could project to be a #1C, Reinhart projects to be a #3C with 2nd line potential. I like Reinhart alot, but thats the criteria I am personally going on.
No way. Reinhart doesn't currently project as a third liner. He projects as a second liner with top line upside and Jankowski is the same way. The difference? Reinhart is much more polished in every aspect at this point (understandable due to Jankowski's age and lack of higher level experience).

Go watch the video in post #749, specifically the play that starts at 2:43. Reinhart possesses extraordinary vision and playmaking skills that certainly do not project him to be a 3rd liner. 4 points in his first two games in the AHL against men. I don't see why Jankowski's potential is higher than Reinhart's? Because he is the shiny new draft pick?

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06-29-2012, 12:07 AM
  #42
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You have a point, I would actually alter my list slightly and put him at 10 and move Byron down to 11. I have Granlund rated quite a bit higher than you because of his skill set. He is still largely an unknown, but he has top 6 potential so thats why I have him ranked higher.

And Brossoit is really good, but his value rapidly shot up after this post season. I have him ranked lower because I need to see what he can do in a professional league. Goaltenders take much longer to develop, I am still largely unsure about him but hopefully optimistic.
That's perfectly acceptable. I just came away thoroughly impressed with his all around game during the few regular season games I caught live, and of course throughout that playoff run.

The opposite could be said for Granlund, I am impressed with his offensive skillset but was disappointed with his performance in the WJC's. He is extremely weak on the puck and his skating could really use some work. I question his compete level as well.

All in all, I think Calgary has a clear cut top six prospects as it stands now and after that it really comes down to personal preference.

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06-29-2012, 12:23 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Potential trumps being NHL ready in my books. These are a projection after all. Obviously the rankings can combine a bit of both, but for me personally I would take the skill and size of Jankowski over Reinhart.

This is my top 15.

1. Sven Baertschi
2. T.J Brodie
3. Leland Irving
4. Mark Jankowski
5. John Gaudreau
6. Max Reinhart
7. Greg Nemisz (Appears I am the only one who still believes in him..)
8. Laurent Brossoit
9. Roman Horak
10. Michael Ferland
11. Markus Granlund
12. Bill Arnold
13. Lance Bouma
14. Patrick Sieloff
15. John Ramage / Tyler Wotherspoon (Can't decide who I like better)

I would be perfectly ok with swapping Jankowski with Gaudreau also.
If you really believe this then you have to put Jankowski over every player except Bartschi.

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06-29-2012, 12:46 AM
  #44
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If you really believe this then you have to put Jankowski over every player except Bartschi.
Well I did say that my rankings combine both to some degree, but with a larger emphasis on potential.

T.J Brodie - I view his potential as a #3 defensemen + he is in the NHL now.
Leland Iriving - Starting potential. In the NHL now (should be anyways..)

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06-29-2012, 12:47 AM
  #45
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No way. Reinhart doesn't currently project as a third liner. He projects as a second liner with top line upside and Jankowski is the same way. The difference? Reinhart is much more polished in every aspect at this point (understandable due to Jankowski's age and lack of higher level experience).

Go watch the video in post #749, specifically the play that starts at 2:43. Reinhart possesses extraordinary vision and playmaking skills that certainly do not project him to be a 3rd liner. 4 points in his first two games in the AHL against men. I don't see why Jankowski's potential is higher than Reinhart's? Because he is the shiny new draft pick?
Trust me, I like Reinhart ALOT. I'm not hating on the guy at all, like I said I have him and Janko neck and neck. I've watched Reinhart play a fair bit and I think his biggest strength is how smart he is. When you pair that with skill set and work ethic, I think he has the potential to be a really good player. His projection of a 3rd liner is mainly from hockey analysts from what I'd imagine is largely due to the gritty element in his play.

You obviously have a man crush on him and I don't blame you.

I really hope you are right on your comparisons to Stepan and Henrique and I do not feel they are that far off from what I've seen. Besides highlights I can't really compare Janko's game to Reinhart's, my statement was based off of scouting reports at the time they were drafted. I'll admit Reinhart has evolved into much more, skilled (and as you say) polished player so his original projection really isn't totally warranted anymore.

Again, my rankings are extremely close between the 2 and as of today there is no question that Reinhart is the better player. But I'm still giving a slight edge to Jankow based on his physical attributes and skill set. If both players hit their ceilings, Jankow will probably be the better player although Reinhart is definitely the safer pick of the 2 at this time to become an NHL'er.

Good conversations to be having about our prospects!

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06-29-2012, 12:49 AM
  #46
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Trust me, I like Reinhart ALOT. I'm not hating on the guy at all, like I said I have him and Janko neck and neck. I've watched Reinhart play a fair bit and I think his biggest strength is how smart he is. When you pair that with skill set and work ethic, I think he has the potential to be a really good player. His projection of a 3rd liner is mainly from hockey analysts from what I'd imagine is largely due to the gritty element in his play.

You obviously have a man crush on him and I don't blame you.

I really hope you are right on your comparisons to Stepan and Henrique and I do not feel they are that far off from what I've seen. Besides highlights I can't really compare Janko's game to Reinhart's, my statement was based off of scouting reports at the time they were drafted. I'll admit Reinhart has evolved into much more, skilled (and as you say) polished player so his original projection really isn't totally warranted anymore.

Again, my rankings are extremely close between the 2 and as of today there is no question that Reinhart is the better player. But I'm still giving a slight edge to Jankow based on his physical attributes and skill set. If both players hit their ceilings, Jankow will probably be the better player although Reinhart is definitely the safer pick of the 2 at this time to become an NHL'er.

Good conversations to be having about our prospects!
I guess one good way to do these lists, would be to think of it like a draft. If you had to draft someone 1st,2nd,3rd ect. What order would you do it in?

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06-29-2012, 12:53 AM
  #47
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The opposite could be said for Granlund, I am impressed with his offensive skillset but was disappointed with his performance in the WJC's. He is extremely weak on the puck and his skating could really use some work. I question his compete level as well.

All in all, I think Calgary has a clear cut top six prospects as it stands now and after that it really comes down to personal preference.
Really? I was actually quite impressed with him at the WJC's, but that was probably due to his skillset lol. To me, I'm hoping the issues regarding his compete level are actually due more to him trying to learn the game at a higher level. I know his brother has no issues whatsoever with coming to play, and generally that level of compete will run in a family. He definitely needs some work, I can't wait to see him play at this seasons WJC's to see how he's progressed.

I totally agree with you about the top 6 to, its awesome to see the Flames be at this level.

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06-29-2012, 12:59 AM
  #48
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I guess one good way to do these lists, would be to think of it like a draft. If you had to draft someone 1st,2nd,3rd ect. What order would you do it in?
That throw's a whole new wrench into things, but its an interesting thought. Thats also tough because some guys on that list are at much different stages in their development than others.

My top 5 would probably be:

Sven
Gaudreau
Brodie
Jankow
Reinhart

Irving is an extremely close 6, (but never take a goalie in the 1st round).

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06-29-2012, 01:08 AM
  #49
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Really? I was actually quite impressed with him at the WJC's, but that was probably due to his skillset lol. To me, I'm hoping the issues regarding his compete level are actually due more to him trying to learn the game at a higher level. I know his brother has no issues whatsoever with coming to play, and generally that level of compete will run in a family. He definitely needs some work, I can't wait to see him play at this seasons WJC's to see how he's progressed.

I totally agree with you about the top 6 to, its awesome to see the Flames be at this level.
I just did not see anything that would suggest that he would be a top six forward at the NHL level. I could certainly be way off base here and he definitely has the time and room to grow in order to prove me wrong.

I think next year will give us a strong indication about his potential moving forward. He will have to earn his ice-time and produce without his brother for the first time at that level, and will also be given a huge role on the WJC as well.

I do really like his offensive game though. If he can bulk up he certainly has the skillset to have success in the future.

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06-29-2012, 10:15 AM
  #50
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I just did not see anything that would suggest that he would be a top six forward at the NHL level. I could certainly be way off base here and he definitely has the time and room to grow in order to prove me wrong.

I think next year will give us a strong indication about his potential moving forward. He will have to earn his ice-time and produce without his brother for the first time at that level, and will also be given a huge role on the WJC as well.

I do really like his offensive game though. If he can bulk up he certainly has the skillset to have success in the future.
Exactly how I feel, if he progresses as expected, with the graduation of Baertschi he could easily be in our top 3 prospects next year. However, on the opposite side of that, if he does not take that next step then I would probably rank in the 10 or higher range. Like I said I currently have him ranked a little higher because of his potential and skill set.

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