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Valtteri Filppula & Jimmy Howard Extensions

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Old
06-29-2012, 12:15 AM
  #1
The Zetterberg Era
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Valtteri Filppula & Jimmy Howard Extensions

As we saw on a couple of real notable occasions today agreeing in principle with these guys is possible even right now for something to get done on July 1st.

With the Wings expected to be very active I know that probably isn't priority #1 or even #2 but it should be pretty high on our list especially when the silly numbers start cranking out which could hurt us. For instance I think this takes precedence over Abdelkader and Quincey even though these two have contracts for next season.

There are inherent dangers as if Filppula can put up those numbers again and Jimmy going hot cold hot since he took over. But how big does Filppula's number get if at mid-season he is tracking for a 70 point season or Jimmy goes to another all-star game?

Grabo getting 5.5 hurts but the goalie market seems to be around 4 million for a couple of players similar to Howard.

What I would like to see.

Filppula: 5/6 years 26.25/31.5 million (5.25 cap hit) I think we would have to go Kronwall length to get him much lower.

Howard: 4 years 16 million (4.00 cap hit)

Is that too high, too long of deals?

I just worry about how much those could go up as the season goes on, especially Howard who knows nothing is behind him in the pipeline that can feasibly push for playing time.

Thoughts?

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06-29-2012, 12:22 AM
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Why not

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06-29-2012, 12:26 AM
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Having Flipper at 3 million has been better than I realized.

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06-29-2012, 12:29 AM
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hexrae
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Too lazy to check, but when was the last Wings player to sign a new contract in the summer prior to playing out their current deal?

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06-29-2012, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexrae View Post
Too lazy to check, but when was the last Wings player to sign a new contract in the summer prior to playing out their current deal?

Well Franzen signed his before the playoffs even started not sure if you want to count that. I also think with the CBA situation this might be a different case.

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06-29-2012, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Well Franzen signed his before the playoffs even started not sure if you want to count that. I also think with the CBA situation this might be a different case.
Would it be smarter to sign them before the cap (allegedley) goes down, or after?

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06-29-2012, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jenkins tremblay View Post
Would it be smarter to sign them before the cap (allegedley) goes down, or after?
It depends on which side of the debate you come down on. In my opinion both Filppula and especially Howard (lack of goaltending depth) could be considered core players. They are likely along with the couple of higher profile signings we have on July 1st responsible for bridging the gap between our aging stars and our talented prospect pipeline. I would think knowing what their numbers are at would be good in the event we need to reshape the roster.

There are conflicting reports as to whether the cap can even go back down, feeling is the players won't budge given all they gave up in the last negotiations and still soaring revenues. Maybe amnesties will be allowed again, but otherwise I would expect guys like Cleary to be trade casualties if the team isn't compliant. But that is why I think this has an interesting priority, we probably need to know where Jimmy and Filppula are moving forward to do this correctly in my opinion.

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06-29-2012, 12:52 AM
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Filppula's numbers were inflated due to him playing wing. He showed in the playoffs that he never should've been playing wing. He's a great 3rd line center and should get paid as such.

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06-29-2012, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
Filppula's numbers were inflated due to him playing wing. He showed in the playoffs that he never should've been playing wing. He's a great 3rd line center and should get paid as such.
No one really played well in the playoffs.

Filppula's numbers being "inflated" on the wing makes no sense. He played wing and those were his numbers. It's not like you could throw anyone into that role and have them put up 65+ points.

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06-29-2012, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
Filppula's numbers were inflated due to him playing wing. He showed in the playoffs that he never should've been playing wing. He's a great 3rd line center and should get paid as such.
Babcock called Helmer the best third line center in the game on that NHL Live link down the page. The decision has been made see his contact bump to where he is underneath some of the good third liners but still that is why he is getting north of two million bucks now. Filppula is a winger from here on out unless he is actually the second line center with Z sliding back out to a wing position.

He is going to get paid like a top six guy not a third line center and those are the facts. Maybe we can convince him to be around Franzen's 4 million it would be incredible if we did in my opinion, especially given some of the contracts we have seen this past season and are no doubt about to see on July 1st.

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06-29-2012, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
Filppula's numbers were inflated due to him playing wing. He showed in the playoffs that he never should've been playing wing. He's a great 3rd line center and should get paid as such.
This is backwards. Filppula showed this year that he is more valuable as a winger than as a center. At least when it comes to offense. He really elevated his game, and wing is where he should stay. Inflated numbers? Uh, no, those were simply his numbers.

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06-29-2012, 02:02 AM
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Inflated numbers? Uh, no, those were simply his numbers.
Nah, they were inflated by a ridiculous shooting %. Contrary to popular belief he wasn't shooting more.

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06-29-2012, 02:05 AM
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I'm not sold on Fil being able to repeat these numbers... Finally strings together a healthy season, and scored 26 more points than his previous career high. He's a valuable player, no doubt, but I just think Holland and co. could've packaged him and a middle tier prospect to get a solid #3 MAYBE even a #2 defenseman depending on the prospect/pick. Sell high.

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06-29-2012, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Rice View Post
No one really played well in the playoffs.

Filppula's numbers being "inflated" on the wing makes no sense. He played wing and those were his numbers. It's not like you could throw anyone into that role and have them put up 65+ points.
Exactly.

I say keep Filppula at wing and put Helm at the permanent 3rd line center spot.

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06-29-2012, 02:23 AM
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I'd wait to see how Howard plays this season before offering an extension. Especially now that Lidstrom is gone and the defense is being rebuilt.

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06-29-2012, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by icKx View Post
Nah, they were inflated by a ridiculous shooting %. Contrary to popular belief he wasn't shooting more.
more no but he was noticeably shooting from better locations

if you completely ignore this year his career shooting % is 12.2%

is 16% really that ridiculous with him noticeably shooting from better spots?

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06-29-2012, 04:53 AM
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Maybe not, but his shooting percentage was hovering at 19% when he was looking like an actual impact winger earlier on.

There's a lot to like about Flip, I'm just not sold on him being a go-to guy on offense -- yet.

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06-29-2012, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
more no but he was noticeably shooting from better locations

if you completely ignore this year his career shooting % is 12.2%

is 16% really that ridiculous with him noticeably shooting from better spots?
With that career shootin% his stats would have been 17.5+43=60.5.

It makes a difference but not IMO but not very considerable, 5.5 goals less.

***

What makes the biggest concern for me, it's his defensive weakness at winger position.

He somehow had the ultimate weakest corsi from Wings Top6 forwards at last season.

http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

Reganding those stats, IMO, we got his career best scoring figures thanks to Zetterberg, but we maybe lost more from his defensive play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post

Howard: 4 years 16 million (4.00 cap hit)
That would be realistic, deserved and just great.


Last edited by Henkka: 06-29-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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06-29-2012, 05:42 AM
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I think a lot of people on here are severely underrating Filppula's value. Do you know how many teams would kill for a top six player like him? I think he can replicate, if not, surpass, and hit the 70-point plateau this season. He'll deserve the bump in pay he gets on his contract extension.

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06-29-2012, 06:03 AM
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Those are some really interesting charts, Henkka. I've never heard of this method before. Based on the Wings chart, I can totally see where you're coming from about Filppula though. Also, it looks as if Kronwall and Stuart were largely ineffective. Smith's stats look good. He's shown he is not a liability, yet. We'll see how he handles more ice-time and higher quality of competition. Emmerton, Mursak, and Homer's stats look awful. Surprisingly, Kindl's stats look the worst of all the Wings. He had low ice-time, played against the worst competition and still had a negative corsi. Not surprising, Z, Dats, and Mule were our best forwards.

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06-29-2012, 06:03 AM
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Fil around 4.5 and Howard around 3.5 would be good starting points imo, then meet their demands a bit and we'll call it a day at around 5 and 4. Maybe five years each. That would mean a ~$4M raise combined, and half of it could be covered by Cleary being replaced by a rookie.

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06-29-2012, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
Those are some really interesting charts, Henkka. I've never heard of this method before. Based on the Wings chart, I can totally see where you're coming from about Filppula though. Also, it looks as if Kronwall and Stuart were largely ineffective.
Only thing I was hoping Hudler would had been that weakest link, and we could show him the door without any regrets.

That Filppula "weakness" could also be just adjusting for the new winger position. He scored more, but had really bad defence at Filppula standards. We were accusing him "defending too much" and "being too unselfish" as a center. Now he was selfish, scored and was bad defensively.

I hope he is better defensively at next season, and with different linemates (Huds gone), if he stays at winger position, as believed. Helm signing tells that 2.1 million is too much to be wasted at 4th line center position and Filppula is a nice incurance policy to have, if either 1-2 center Dats or Z are out.


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06-29-2012, 06:20 AM
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Only thing I was hoping Hudler would had been that weakest link, and we could show him the door without any regrets.
Yeah, but I guarantee you Hudler's number were inflated from playing on a line with Z all season. I highly doubt he will hit 50 points on another team. 35 points seems more likely, depending on who is centering him and how much ice-time he gets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I hope he is better defensively at next season, and with different linemates (Huds gone), if he stays at winger position, as believed. Helm signing tells that 2.1 million is too much to be wasted at 4th line center position and Filppula is a nice incurance policy to have, if either 1-2 center Dats or Z are out.
He needs to be our Jordan Staal.

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06-29-2012, 06:27 AM
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I think Hudler can get 50 points, the team signing him will probably give him good PP time, but he will not sniff 25 goals.

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06-29-2012, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Rice View Post
No one really played well in the playoffs.

Filppula's numbers being "inflated" on the wing makes no sense. He played wing and those were his numbers. It's not like you could throw anyone into that role and have them put up 65+ points.
A few players played really well for us. Nobody played worse than Filppula. I was shocked to see him play in the world championships, I thought for sure he had a serious injury.

In my opinion Filppula's numbers as a winger are irrelevant, because he's not a very good winger, and he is a very reliable center.

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This is backwards. Filppula showed this year that he is more valuable as a winger than as a center. At least when it comes to offense. He really elevated his game, and wing is where he should stay. Inflated numbers? Uh, no, those were simply his numbers.
Compare his playoff performances. Up until last year he was one of our most consistent and reliable playoff performers. Last year he was a turnover machine, and could get absolutely nothing done, and we sorely missed his consistent presence up the middle.

This is an interesting topic, and I even thought about starting a thread about it a while ago, after seeing a bunch of lineup projections with Filppula still at wing. He had a skill set that complimented Hudler and Zetterberg better than Cleary or Bertuzzi, but he is a natural center, and really doesn't have the tools,experience or mindset necessary to be anything but barely adequate at wing. It's a waste of a proven asset.

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