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Old
06-28-2012, 11:23 PM
  #51
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Ideal scenario for me would be for Klefa to stay for the main Oilers TC, make all the cuts, get a 9 game cup of coffee after 4 or 5 pre season games, and then back to Farjestad to finish his season.

This would also be somewhat contingent on Farjestad being okay with all of this and playing Klefa in his 1/2 spot like he was at the end of their last season and playoffs.

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06-28-2012, 11:24 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
2012 IIHF all star dmen - klefbom, Gormley
2011 - Ellis, Orlov
2010 - Petriangelo, Carlson
2009 - Subban, Karlson
2008 - Doughty, Hedman

too lazy to go back any further. The trend is that IIHF All Star Dmen are typically ready to play next year in the NHL. I saw Klefbom a few times this year and he is very mature. IMO, He would not look out of place in an Oiler jersey next year.
I don't know if he'd look out of place, but unless he's playing in the top 4, materially improving the club, there's a pretty good case for sending him back to SWE for another year, IMO.

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06-28-2012, 11:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Burnt Biscuits View Post
Klefbom is poised to get big minutes on a strong club in the SEL and I want him to hit the ground running I am not only opposed to having him play games here this year, but also opposed to him being late for the SEL camp, if that means missing the Oilers main camp entirely then so be it. There is no need to rush this kid and while he may be NHL capable he is not going to come in and make a huge impact, the extra development time will only help the Oilers in the long run.
So him being good in Sweden, not really that important in the grand scheme, him being an NHL defense, very important.

Add to this, that Ryan Murray is NHL ready, and scouts think Klefbom is as good or better then Murray. It's almost a complete disservice if you don't see where he his compared to your NHL guys.

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We brought Paajarvi in too early and while the effects did not show in the first year they came to bear in the 2nd year, and we tried forcing Lander into a spot he was not ready for aswell, and looks like he will probably play most of next year in the AHL.
Tell me you're kidding? Too early, because his second year was bad? Like he's the first kid to have a sophmore slump? Come on now, very weak reasoning. As for Lander, he went to the AHL to work on his game, I fail to see how he's been crushed from his experience

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It's time this organization stopped talking about developing players like Detroit and other winning organizations and actually started doing so. Defense is a hard position to learn Klefbom needs some big minutes against the best the SEL has to offer and he has to come out ahead more often than not, before we have serious conversations about bringing him over.
Nik Lidstrom, 20 years, greatest defenseman in Franchise history, playing at ridiculously high level consistently, without serious injury.

An All-Time great like that, makes things ALOT different for your team in terms of developing players.

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06-28-2012, 11:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Nik Lidstrom, 20 years, greatest defenseman in Franchise history, playing at ridiculously high level consistently, without serious injury.

An All-Time great like that, makes things ALOT different for your team in terms of developing players.
Lidstrom spent a full two years in Sweden developing after being drafted before playing for the wings. I suspect the same would benefit Klefbom.

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06-28-2012, 11:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Ideal scenario for me would be for Klefa to stay for the main Oilers TC, make all the cuts, get a 9 game cup of coffee after 4 or 5 pre season games, and then back to Farjestad to finish his season.

This would also be somewhat contingent on Farjestad being okay with all of this and playing Klefa in his 1/2 spot like he was at the end of their last season and playoffs.
Very few players get a taste of the NHL and don't want to stay in the NHL, it's living a dream most of them have had since they were little kids, when you demote them it's always a little bit of a kick in the teeth even if you don't intend for it to be perceived that way. Then you drop him into the middle of the season, and he may not be upto speed on the strategies and gameplans they have been implemented because he was not at camp. He not only has to catch up on what he missed, but has to fight to get his ice-time back because the coach will obviously have to go with someone else in his absence. Depending on how well his team is doing that may mean he misses some significant development time, this is not like taking Eberle and giving him a 9 game NHL stint that dropping him back with the Pats where he will clearly take a spot on the top line the second he is back in the door, this is one of the top teams in a men's league he's not worlds better than everyone else and won't just be gift wrapped a spot. Big ice time for young players does not come easy in the SEL and making him late for camp just puts him in a disadvantaged position for no reason it's not good for his development, he is not ready for anything more than a 3rd pairing role on our defense at the moment anyway if even that, why rush him?

If this team keeps trying to force European players over here early cause they want to acclimate them to the North American game, I'd prefer we just stop picking Europeans entirely, we can pick North American players who are already acclimated to our game being that they have lived here and played here their entire life. Obviously there are some adjustments that European players have to make when they come over here to play, but I believe the countries and teams that developed this players for the 12 or so years before we drafted them are capable of developing them further in the 2-3 years after we draft them. When players have the core fundamentals of their game figured out and have shown capable of playing well in a men's league the transition the NHL will be easier and more natural, they will also be more mature and better able to deal with setbacks and knowing how to make adjustments to get themselves back on track.

I can understand having a different perspective if we had a top prospect in a league that just was not to going to challenge him or develop him properly like the Austrian or Italian hockey leagues but the SEL, the KHL, & the SM-liiga can be good developmental leagues especially if you are playing on a top team with good structure, coaching, and an active interest in helping their personnel improve.

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06-29-2012, 12:11 AM
  #56
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He's better off to go with the original plan and return to Sweden.. He's only 19 years old and he'll get a really good season in there.

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06-29-2012, 12:12 AM
  #57
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He doesnt seem like a guy who would change his mind either. He pretty much said this was what he was doing in his post-draft interview.

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06-29-2012, 12:20 AM
  #58
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Talked to him around Christmas and he sounded quite unequivocal about playing in Sweden next year. He has been playing with Farjestad since his early teens and really wants to prove himself there. The Oilers and NHL are a big deal but it is his boyhood team and he seemed to really want to show he can produce offensively there and seemed adamant he would receive more ice-time and the numbers would come. Once he proves himself there offensively, his confidence will be sky-high and he will feel ready.

Now, a lot of time has passed since now and then and there are conversations with Tambellini, Lowe, et al. as well as his agent but Swedish players seem to be of a different mind. They're very humble and self-aware. Last year Bryan Murray was pressing on Jakob Silfverberg intensely to join the team and come over to NA but he was adamant on staying in Sweden, likely for many of the same reasons Klefbom has. He wanted to both "make sure he was ready" and also felt he owed it to his club team to give them a great year of production as sort of a "reward" for all the resources they poured into him since he was a child basically. Silfverberg was with Brynas since he was a boy. Swedish people, as a generalization, are very loyal and humble people. Paajarvi's case might be a little different because his dad is a well-known agent and the business side of things is in the forefront for them moreso than a typical prospect.

To us, the Oilers are the end all be all of everything because we spent our youths growing up watching this team triumph, struggle, triumph again and struggle again. For Swedish players, the NHL is a huge dream, but at the same time they obviously feel ties to their own hometown teams. Probably even moreso than any of us to the Oilers because they actually played for them and have been tied to them in an official capacity from such a young age.

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06-29-2012, 12:22 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
So him being good in Sweden, not really that important in the grand scheme, him being an NHL defense, very important.

Add to this, that Ryan Murray is NHL ready, and scouts think Klefbom is as good or better then Murray. It's almost a complete disservice if you don't see where he his compared to your NHL guys.
The only disservice is to Klefbom in not developing him properly, he is in a near ideal situation to improve himself and he himself said he wants another year in the SEL before he tries making the jump; and for the record Murray is not only better than Klefbom but much more capable of making the jump straight to the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins
Tell me you're kidding? Too early, because his second year was bad? Like he's the first kid to have a sophmore slump? Come on now, very weak reasoning. As for Lander, he went to the AHL to work on his game, I fail to see how he's been crushed from his experience
Sophomore slumps, huh? They do occur, but do you notice how we seem to have a lot of them? Do you wonder why that is? I think it's because there is a lot of smart people in this league and when they see someone who is successful they key in on them and try to expose the weaknesses in their game, now as a young player you have to adjust to the adjustments teams are making to negate you or otherwise hinder your success. The more complete a game you play the harder this is to do and the amount of experience you have will also play a big role, many players need to refine themselves well past their draft years to do this. Obviously for high end talents such as first overall picks or an Eberle (who I still would still argue was well served by one extra year in junior) this comes quite naturally and usually adjust very quickly to these changes, but for eveyone else the extra development time does not go wasted. I don't see as many sophomore slumps out of Detroit as their players are quite often not only ready, but more than ready and it shows. Look at Columbus or NYI how many prospects have they rushed and how has that worked for them? If a prospect appears to be clearly ready I am not against playing them, but I do believe it is better to play a prospect one year after they became "NHL" ready than one year too early.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins
Nik Lidstrom, 20 years, greatest defenseman in Franchise history, playing at ridiculously high level consistently, without serious injury.

An All-Time great like that, makes things ALOT different for your team in terms of developing players.
I am not going to disagree with this, a Nik Lidstrom would make a world of difference, but we don't have one and maybe that has made it easier for Detroit to be patient. That does not mean that just cause we don't have him that we should not make an effort to exude the same patience if it is in the best long term interests of our team, as hard as it may be.


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06-29-2012, 01:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Talked to him around Christmas and he sounded quite unequivocal about playing in Sweden next year. He has been playing with Farjestad since his early teens and really wants to prove himself there. The Oilers and NHL are a big deal but it is his boyhood team and he seemed to really want to show he can produce offensively there and seemed adamant he would receive more ice-time and the numbers would come. Once he proves himself there offensively, his confidence will be sky-high and he will feel ready.

Now, a lot of time has passed since now and then and there are conversations with Tambellini, Lowe, et al. as well as his agent but Swedish players seem to be of a different mind. They're very humble and self-aware. Last year Bryan Murray was pressing on Jakob Silfverberg intensely to join the team and come over to NA but he was adamant on staying in Sweden, likely for many of the same reasons Klefbom has. He wanted to both "make sure he was ready" and also felt he owed it to his club team to give them a great year of production as sort of a "reward" for all the resources they poured into him since he was a child basically. Silfverberg was with Brynas since he was a boy. Swedish people, as a generalization, are very loyal and humble people. Paajarvi's case might be a little different because his dad is a well-known agent and the business side of things is in the forefront for them moreso than a typical prospect.

To us, the Oilers are the end all be all of everything because we spent our youths growing up watching this team triumph, struggle, triumph again and struggle again. For Swedish players, the NHL is a huge dream, but at the same time they obviously feel ties to their own hometown teams. Probably even moreso than any of us to the Oilers because they actually played for them and have been tied to them in an official capacity from such a young age.
I can see a day when top Euro players will not want to come to the NHL and there will be a rival league equal or better.

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06-29-2012, 01:46 AM
  #61
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I can see a day when top Euro players will not want to come to the NHL and there will be a rival league equal or better.
I dont want this it all... its bad enough the world talent needs to be spread over 30 teams.... diluting it further by spreading them all over the world would be a travesty

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06-29-2012, 09:24 AM
  #62
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While I personally believe Klefbom is best served going back to Farjestads, I don't really see how him staying over is that bad for his development.

He's old enough to play in the AHL, so if he doesn't make the Oilers, he can play in OKC and learn the North American game. Yeah, he won't have as many veterans to lean on, but it will give him a head start on adjusting to the smaller rink.

I do think it would be a bad thing to start him off in the NHL, however.

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06-29-2012, 09:38 AM
  #63
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If Klef comes to camp and skates circles around the 5-6-7 dmen we have then the oilers have to keep him in the nhl to play. He is 19 sure there may be growing pains but this is the same talk we had precamp last year with RNH, if these guys are ready.....LET THEM PLAY

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06-29-2012, 09:38 AM
  #64
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Meh. Like anything in life, you know yourself better than how others percieve you. If he feels he's not ready, he'll go with his original plan and stay in Sweden. Hockey players nowadays have a much better grasp on their own situation and where they need to improve.....unless you're talking about Omark. That's another story.

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06-29-2012, 09:45 AM
  #65
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We need to let him stay in the SEL one more year. The Oilers are trying to build loyalty within our organization, it seems hypocritical to ask Klefbom to go back on his word and leave his hometown team.

I prefer a slow path with defencemen anyway. Another year in the SEL, hopefully with more TOI and points, will be great for his development.

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06-29-2012, 10:08 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Lay Z Boy GM View Post
We need to let him stay in the SEL one more year. The Oilers are trying to build loyalty within our organization, it seems hypocritical to ask Klefbom to go back on his word and leave his hometown team.

I prefer a slow path with defencemen anyway. Another year in the SEL, hopefully with more TOI and points, will be great for his development.
I believe we have to at least present the option to him. Krueger is a very smart man and from what I've heard an excellent judge of character. People may say he doesn't deserve the job but that is another topic all together. If his COACH evaluates him, and deems him ready IMO you have to ask hi if he wants to make the jump now. If Klefbom believes he is ready he will choose to stay simple as that.

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06-29-2012, 11:08 AM
  #67
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I don't see how Klefbom is the answer for no Schultz. Pretty sure ST doesn't have the leash that he's had in past year. If we are a lotto team again he's gone, playing Klefbom for anything more than 9 games puts us in the lotto.
Nah, he just signed a multi-year deal, it'll take at least another 2 years of incompetence before they ship him off.

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06-29-2012, 11:43 AM
  #68
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Meh. Like anything in life, you know yourself better than how others percieve you. If he feels he's not ready, he'll go with his original plan and stay in Sweden. Hockey players nowadays have a much better grasp on their own situation and where they need to improve.....unless you're talking about Omark. That's another story.
I agree with this but I would also add that if he's having a bit of second thoughts about this hole situation, let him stay for the preseason and maybe even a couple of games in the regular season (given that he earns that opportunity). I don't really buy into the talk that his club wouldn't take him back unless he goes through the pre-season training/games with them. He would not be the first, second or tenth player to start out a season in the NHL and then move back. OK there's obviously a slight downside but that is compensated by the potential upside in him getting more of a feel for this club, the pace and his future team mates. And you never know, might just be that he'll fit right in and stick around for the season even though that may be a bit far fetched.

edit: Even though I think it is highly unlikely that his team will miss the playoffs, it could also be possible to get Klefbom over here for the last 15-16 games (SEL regular season ends on March 5).


Last edited by LaGu: 06-29-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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06-29-2012, 11:45 AM
  #69
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If Klef comes to camp and skates circles around the 5-6-7 dmen we have then the oilers have to keep him in the nhl to play. He is 19 sure there may be growing pains but this is the same talk we had precamp last year with RNH, if these guys are ready.....LET THEM PLAY
If? Im pretty sure that isnt in question. He is already better than most of our nhl roster dmen. I dont think that is really in doubt.

The question is, should they expose him to the shelling he is going to get back there at at such a young age?

Im not sure that is a good idea.

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06-29-2012, 12:09 PM
  #70
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I hope he is coming over sooner than later, but to play in the AHL rather than the NHL.

We've already had two recent examples just on the Oilers, that the swedish elite leagues aren't very good for preparing players for north american hockey. By most accounts Neilson is doing a great job down in OKC, and the players there are getting extensive pro level coaching and practice time.

Also, the added time to familiarize himself with the NA culture before getting dropped into the deep end of the NHL, while also having a couple of swedish players going through the same development curve with him down in OKC could prove invaluable.

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06-29-2012, 12:41 PM
  #71
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I hope he is coming over sooner than later, but to play in the AHL rather than the NHL.

We've already had two recent examples just on the Oilers, that the swedish elite leagues aren't very good for preparing players for north american hockey. By most accounts Neilson is doing a great job down in OKC, and the players there are getting extensive pro level coaching and practice time.

Also, the added time to familiarize himself with the NA culture before getting dropped into the deep end of the NHL, while also having a couple of swedish players going through the same development curve with him down in OKC could prove invaluable.
If it's AHL vs SEL I'm all for SEL. I get your point with regards to Lander and PRV (or where you refering to Omark?) but I don't really think it's a fair one. I was looking at stats for this in some thread a long long time ago and what did seem to stand out a bit was the the younger you were coming over the harder time you had to adapt (PRV one of the youngest ever from SWE which actually makes him stand out a bit seeing as he had a decent rookie season). Instead players who came over at about 20 y.o. (if I remember correct) managed to carve out better careers overall... I get that me saying so won't convince you but I don't feel like going through all that stats vs age again. At least not today

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06-29-2012, 12:43 PM
  #72
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Klefbom is DABOMB... he seems like a stud from all the reports. Haven't been excited over an Oiler dman in a while. Do you guys think he has top 2 potential?

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06-29-2012, 02:02 PM
  #73
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Klefbom is DABOMB... he seems like a stud from all the reports. Haven't been overexcited over an Oiler dman in a while. Do you guys think he has top 2 potential?
Fixed it for you .

No, but seriously I also think this kid has loads of potential. Don't know if he'll make it to top pair though, that would be a huge bonus in my book. I'm expecting 2 pair and wouldn't be overly disappointed with a solid 3rd pair dman.

So far in Sweden he's been (or rather became during the latter part last season) the go to guy in terms of PK and shut-down. Even though you never know, and it seems as if he has some offensive tools, I just hope people are not expecting too much offense from this kid.

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06-29-2012, 02:11 PM
  #74
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Again today (cred to Bluebelle for the daily news as always):

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Second time in a short while now I've heard him expressing more of an interest in coming over already for this season. He does say towards the end that he doesn't want to come over if he doesn't feel ready. But what he says before that definitely confirms that he is thinking about the situation a bit differently than he did just a month or two ago when he, and all others involved, were very clear that he was to play in SEL next season.

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06-29-2012, 02:32 PM
  #75
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If it's AHL vs SEL I'm all for SEL. I get your point with regards to Lander and PRV (or where you refering to Omark?) but I don't really think it's a fair one. I was looking at stats for this in some thread a long long time ago and what did seem to stand out a bit was the the younger you were coming over the harder time you had to adapt (PRV one of the youngest ever from SWE which actually makes him stand out a bit seeing as he had a decent rookie season). Instead players who came over at about 20 y.o. (if I remember correct) managed to carve out better careers overall... I get that me saying so won't convince you but I don't feel like going through all that stats vs age again. At least not today
PVR/Lander, I've considered Omark an organizational afterthought since he came out flat in the preseason when he was already on thin ice

It's not so much of a league vs league difference and historical age spreads, but more a what's best for preparing for the NHL to me. Doubt Klefbom is ready right now, but seems like the type that could end up getting fast tracked sooner than later. The sooner he gets into an environment that prepares him for that without the pressure of the NHL spotlight, the better.

Smaller rinks, far more physical hockey, organizational specific defensive systems and cultural shifts. Add in a cluster of players to grow with(as I said before) and there are just a lot of good reasons to make the move over staying in the elite league.

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