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Offseason Thread III - Laughton all the way to the bank

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06-29-2012, 03:41 AM
  #301
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Agreed. My thoughts are predicated on the possible loss of Carle. I like our D if he's back. I'm not as optimistic if Gus, MAB, or Manning takes his place.

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06-29-2012, 09:44 AM
  #302
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They won't move Nitkin, he worked nicely with Tyutin last season as a pairing.

No to Santorelli, he sucks in the bottom 6 which is why Florida is waiving him.

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06-29-2012, 10:04 AM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
They won't move Nitkin, he worked nicely with Tyutin last season as a pairing.

No to Santorelli, he sucks in the bottom 6 which is why Florida is waiving him.
He played top-6 two years ago?

That would explain his statistical implosion last season.

I was under the impression that they wanted to clear a spot for a guy like Howden or Bjugstad on the 3rd line, and that's why Santorelli was expendable.

Still, I'm not sure he's a bad option. We could slot him in on the 3rd line--with Couturier and Read.

Hartnell-Giroux-Vorcaek
Schenn-Briere-Simmonds
Santorelli-Couturier-Read
Wellwood-Talbot-Rinaldo

Let me be clear--this is far from my first choice.

I'm just not sold on resigning Jagr--and I'm not sure what the plan is for the 2nd / 3rd lines if we don't. I like Mueller too, but he's an even bigger question mark. I don't think Doan will end up leaving Phoenix, and if he does, I'd be shocked if he moves across the country.

Adding someone like Gaustad pushes Talbot to the third line--but I think its probably unreasonable to expect him to match last year's offensive production.

It just seems to me that we could do significantly worse than him as a bottom-6 forward, regardless of his struggles last season.

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06-29-2012, 10:10 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
He played top-6 two years ago?

That would explain his statistical implosion last season.

I was under the impression that they wanted to clear a spot for a guy like Howden or Bjugstad on the 3rd line, and that's why Santorelli was expendable.

Still, I'm not sure he's a bad option. We could slot him in on the 3rd line--with Couturier and Read.

Hartnell-Giroux-Vorcaek
Schenn-Briere-Simmonds
Santorelli-Couturier-Read
Wellwood-Talbot-Rinaldo

Let me be clear--this is far from my first choice.

I'm just not sold on resigning Jagr--and I'm not sure what the plan is for the 2nd / 3rd lines if we don't. I like Mueller too, but he's an even bigger question mark. I don't think Doan will end up leaving Phoenix, and if he does, I'd be shocked if he moves across the country.

Adding someone like Gaustad pushes Talbot to the third line--but I think its probably unreasonable to expect him to match last year's offensive production.

It just seems to me that we could do significantly worse than him as a bottom-6 forward, regardless of his struggles last season.

From what I've seen - Santorelli was terrible bottom 6 & is not a checker in the slightest. He's a boom or bust top 6 forward. If he doesn't fit into your top 6, then you have major problems with him. It also could be a type of move for the youngsters. I don't think Tallon could have gotten a 7th for him at the draft. I'm pretty sure he was attempting to do that.

Jagr - I don't know. I'm not sold either. I don't want to pay him more then 3M per if we get him back.

Doan - I don't see any way possible he leaves the Phoenix area, I really don't even think he leaves Phoenix. That would be a massive move for him & his family.

Mueller - I'd only be safe picking him if it was a 1 year for 1M, maybe 1.25M MAYBE. I'm skeptical he's even more close to lalaland then every other player.

Apparently Gaustad doesn't want to be a 4th line center, and most Preds/Sabres fans think he wants 3rd liner money.

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06-29-2012, 10:16 AM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
From what I've seen - Santorelli was terrible bottom 6 & is not a checker in the slightest. He's a boom or bust top 6 forward. If he doesn't fit into your top 6, then you have major problems with him. It also could be a type of move for the youngsters. I don't think Tallon could have gotten a 7th for him at the draft. I'm pretty sure he was attempting to do that.

Jagr - I don't know. I'm not sold either. I don't want to pay him more then 3M per if we get him back.

Doan - I don't see any way possible he leaves the Phoenix area, I really don't even think he leaves Phoenix. That would be a massive move for him & his family.

Mueller - I'd only be safe picking him if it was a 1 year for 1M, maybe 1.25M MAYBE. I'm skeptical he's even more close to lalaland then every other player.

Apparently Gaustad doesn't want to be a 4th line center, and most Preds/Sabres fans think he wants 3rd liner money.
So, absent a trade or Parise, where does that leave us?

If the plan is to use Couturier as 3C this season, I'd really like to give him a LW with offensive upside, as well as defensive skills.

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06-29-2012, 10:20 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
So, absent a trade or Parise, where does that leave us?

If the plan is to use Couturier as 3C this season, I'd really like to give him a LW with offensive upside, as well as defensive skills.
Ray Whitney would look awesome on Couturier's wing

He is a great play maker and is responsible enough. He might be getting up there in age, but had one of his best seasons last year. Definitely has more in the tank. Sign him for one year and watch him develop Cout's into a 25 goal scorer!

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06-29-2012, 10:25 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
So, absent a trade or Parise, where does that leave us?

If the plan is to use Couturier as 3C this season, I'd really like to give him a LW with offensive upside, as well as defensive skills.
It really leaves us with Jagr being the only realistic option.

Hartnell - Giroux - xxx
Schenn - Briere - Voracek
Read - Couts - Simmonds
Wellwood - Talbot - Rinaldo


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Ray Whitney would look awesome on Couturier's wing

He is a great play maker and is responsible enough. He might be getting up there in age, but had one of his best seasons last year. Definitely has more in the tank. Sign him for one year and watch him develop Cout's into a 25 goal scorer!

I don't see Whitney leaving PHX.

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06-29-2012, 10:27 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Ray Whitney would look awesome on Couturier's wing

He is a great play maker and is responsible enough. He might be getting up there in age, but had one of his best seasons last year. Definitely has more in the tank. Sign him for one year and watch him develop Cout's into a 25 goal scorer!
He's barely more likely to leave Phoenix than Doan. I don't see him as a realistic option.

It seems like the only alternative to Jagr is signing someone like Semin or Hudler for a top-6 role, and bumping Simmonds or Schenn down to the 3rd line.

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06-29-2012, 10:29 AM
  #309
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I'm hoping, with the rumors Doan might go to Free Agency, Whitney might as well. I know people will ***** about his age, but the guy just doesn't slow down. I think he has a better chance of leaving Phoenix than Doan. He won't command a huge amount on the market either(Well im hoping he doesn't at least.)

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06-29-2012, 10:31 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I'm hoping, with the rumors Doan might go to Free Agency, Whitney might as well. I know people will ***** about his age, but the guy just doesn't slow down. I think he has a better chance of leaving Phoenix than Doan. He won't command a huge amount on the market either(Well im hoping he doesn't at least.)
Even if Whitney leaves Phoenix, I don't think there's any reason to believe he comes this far East.

Each are more likely to end up in LA or Anaheim--particularly if Penner leaves.

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06-29-2012, 10:34 AM
  #311
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Back up for Bryz?

Brodeur hires Pat Brisson and may test free agency

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06-29-2012, 10:35 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Even if Whitney leaves Phoenix, I don't think there's any reason to believe he comes this far East.

Each are more likely to end up in LA or Anaheim--particularly if Penner leaves.
I don't know about that, he played a good amount of his career in Carolina and other east coast teams(Detroit, Florida, Columbus) . I don't think he would reluctant to come back to the east coast. We are two days away from free agency too, so it's more and more likely they will test the waters. Of course with that being said, he can resign while i'm typing this and my dream is extinguished with a snap of the fingers.

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06-29-2012, 10:35 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
He's barely more likely to leave Phoenix than Doan. I don't see him as a realistic option.

It seems like the only alternative to Jagr is signing someone like Semin or Hudler for a top-6 role, and bumping Simmonds or Schenn down to the 3rd line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I'm hoping, with the rumors Doan might go to Free Agency, Whitney might as well. I know people will ***** about his age, but the guy just doesn't slow down. I think he has a better chance of leaving Phoenix than Doan. He won't command a huge amount on the market either(Well im hoping he doesn't at least.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Even if Whitney leaves Phoenix, I don't think there's any reason to believe he comes this far East.

Each are more likely to end up in LA or Anaheim--particularly if Penner leaves.
I'm probably in the minority with 5-10 other Flyers fans that actually want Semin.

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06-29-2012, 10:43 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
I'm probably in the minority with 5-10 other Flyers fans that actually want Semin.
I don't hate Semin--and I think he is misunderstood on these boards.

But I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up in Detroit--particularly if they miss on Parise.

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06-29-2012, 11:13 AM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
It really leaves us with Jagr being the only realistic option.

Hartnell - Giroux - xxx
Schenn - Briere - Voracek
Read - Couts - Simmonds
Wellwood - Talbot - Rinaldo
I think You can move each of Voracek and Simmonds up a line. Or you could even move Read up to first line if you want more of a pure trigger man on Giroux's wing than Voracek and think Simmonds and Hartnell on the same line is a little redundant. Our hole is a third line winger, not a first IMO. If only Homer would have just trusted Gustaffson with some more responsibility and not traded JVR, that would be a disgusting line up.


Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 06-29-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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06-29-2012, 11:21 AM
  #316
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If Doan leaves Phoenix, I don't think it makes a difference if he leaves for Anaheim (400 miles away, closest) or Philadelphia. He can't go back for dinner in either case.

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06-29-2012, 11:29 AM
  #317
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That would be so weird, but an awesome way to piss off Debbies fans.

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06-29-2012, 11:41 AM
  #318
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I'm probably in the minority with 5-10 other Flyers fans that actually want Semin.
Obviously, we aren't very likely to land Parise, but if Doan doesn't want to leave Phoenix, Semin is my first choice.

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06-29-2012, 11:50 AM
  #319
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In this market, I can't see Semin taking much less than 6.5M a year.... unless it's only for 1-2 years, I'm not excited about a 28-year old player coming off consecutive sub-55 point seasons who has at least the potential of being inconsistent/lazy.

He's not going to get better at age 31-35.

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06-29-2012, 12:01 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
In this market, I can't see Semin taking much less than 6.5M a year.... unless it's only for 1-2 years, I'm not excited about a 28-year old player coming off consecutive sub-55 point seasons who has at least the potential of being inconsistent/lazy.

He's not going to get better at age 31-35.
Let's not forget about the Marc Staal incident. I don't want to have to hear that a thousand times a season from Rags fans.

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06-29-2012, 12:19 PM
  #321
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Let's not forget about the Marc Staal incident. I don't want to have to hear that a thousand times a season from Rags fans.
Semin>>>>>>>>>Hudler

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06-29-2012, 12:23 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Let's not forget about the Marc Staal incident. I don't want to have to hear that a thousand times a season from Rags fans.
I don't care about the Staal incident. Semin is paid to score goals and he has only been mildly effective in that role over the last 2 seasons. He may be capable of being a 6-7M per year forward, but he's obviously capable of being a 50 point forward as well. At age 28, you're not a deal based on what you could do, but a lot moreso on the your career as it is currently trending. If you sign consecutive 6.5+ million dollar deals and produce worse in each one, you don't get a long term deal for the same or more money.... unless Jay Feaster is signing you I suppose.

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06-29-2012, 12:31 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I don't care about the Staal incident. Semin is paid to score goals and he has only been mildly effective in that role over the last 2 seasons. He may be capable of being a 6-7M per year forward, but he's obviously capable of being a 50 point forward as well. At age 28, you're not a deal based on what you could do, but a lot moreso on the your career as it is currently trending. If you sign consecutive 6.5+ million dollar deals and produce worse in each one, you don't get a long term deal for the same or more money.... unless Jay Feaster is signing you I suppose.
"Mildly effective?"

The entire team struggled this season, but even with his down year, he still averages something like 35 goals per 82 games played--and that, for the most part, was playing one the second-line.

He's arguably the best pure goal-scorer available--and while I'd prefer Parise to Semin, I think Semin is a better fit for the 1st line than Shane Doan.

I'm concerned about term and cap hit too--but it is a pretty good fit--particularly if we don't resign Jagr and promote Jake to the 1st line. At least in that case, there's someone to shoot the puck--and I think Voracek can cover for some of Semin's "inconsistent" defending.

FORWARDS
Alexander Semin ($6.700m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.250m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.875m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,721,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,478,056

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06-29-2012, 12:57 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
He's arguably the best pure goal-scorer available
We are absolutely on the same page, but when you are paid the kind of money he was and you put up consecutive years of 28 and 21 goals you simply cannot expect to receive the kind of AAV and term that has been mentioned.

In the Free Agent boards, 5 year deals totaling 35 million are being mentioned... that is simply an insane commitment to a guy whose own personal commitment to the game has been questioned by former teammates and coaches. The guy was a healthy scratch multiple time this year.

We're talking about making Semin the highest paid player on the team. As I said, Semin can get high AAV (6.5M+) or higher term (>2 years), but I am completely against giving him both.

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06-29-2012, 01:02 PM
  #325
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We are absolutely on the same page, but when you are paid the kind of money he was and you put up consecutive years of 28 and 21 goals you simply cannot expect to receive the kind of AAV and term that has been mentioned.

In the Free Agent boards, 5 year deals totaling 35 million are being mentioned... that is simply an insane commitment to a guy whose own personal commitment to the game has been questioned by former teammates and coaches. The guy was a healthy scratch multiple time this year.

We're talking about making Semin the highest paid player on the team. As I said, Semin can get high AAV (6.5M+) or higher term (>2 years), but I am completely against giving him both.
On his production, didn't he play like 62 games the year he scored 28? (EDIT: 65 games)? Again, last season, everyone was awful here.

But I agree with your point on his cap hit and term. I just don't get the reflexive anti-Semin attitude of some of the posters on here. He's a talented guy who has consistently produced well--often in less than ideal circumstances. He's never going to win a Selke, but he isn't half as bad as some here seem to think defensively--

Again, my preference is for Parise, but if we have the choice between throwing $5 million over 3-4 years on a 35+ contract for Doan, or $6.5 million for 3-4 years for Semin, the latter seems the wise course to me.

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